Resale Value: 6MT vs DCT

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

They never put enough effort into optimizing the software. It wanted to "learn" your driving style so if you were in the habit of easing off the throttle during high rpm shifts to soften the shift, eventually it got the habit of slurring all your shifts - leading to high clutch plate wear and hot spots on the flywheel. If you had a clutch "teach in" performed it would reset the software and all would be good for a while. They tried to be too smart - they should have left out the "learning process" and it would have been a much better system.
At least they learnt their lesson with the DCT which is really quite a remarkable system.

I think you were the .0001% outlier on clutch life :P

[STooK]

When I was shopping for my car I didn't notice any added premium for DCT cars. Yes, you pay extra for the option new, but in the used market it's either pretty much the car is auto or manual, not $2900 DCT vs $0 MT. Right now with most cars still under warranty, DCT = MT in terms of price. But like e46's, MT will be more sought after than DCT as the years go on. I think most people that buy their cars to keep for a long time will buy MT, like myself. If I am leasing, I may consider the DCT.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by Obioban

I think you were the .0001% outlier on clutch life :P

Heh....To be more accurate the problem I was having was with warping of the flywheel (showing as blue spots on the face IIRC) and then clutch judder. The clutch slip at high rpm causing local overheating.

Originally Posted by STooK

When I was shopping for my car I didn't notice any added premium for DCT cars. Yes, you pay extra for the option new, but in the used market it's either pretty much the car is auto or manual, not $2900 DCT vs $0 MT. Right now with most cars still under warranty, DCT = MT in terms of price. But like e46's, MT will be more sought after than DCT as the years go on. I think most people that buy their cars to keep for a long time will buy MT, like myself. If I am leasing, I may consider the DCT.

What are the numbers? 10,000 MTs and 20,000 DCT E9x M3s?
Its not like the MT is going to be some rare thing.
The market decided that ratio of sales when the cars were sold new and unless you can think of a reason why that should change in the future then the desirability of each model should generally remain the same. The usual loss of value of options notwithstanding.

[sgrinavi]

Originally Posted by Sered

No they don't. There's so many 6MTs for sale right now in FL, it's not even funny. There's more MTs for sale right now on autotrader in Florida. Why? Because the DCT cars are getting picked up faster and the 6MT cars sit.

Oh well, if you say it didn't happen then I guess I must be imagining it.

What didn't I have for dinner last night?

[CSBM5]

I started my hunt for an E90 M3 2011 6MT with no sunroof but most other options (heated seats, iDrive, comfort access, etc) in early 2012. It took me until Feb of 2013 to find an acceptable, low-mileage, excellent condition example (16k miles, 2 years left under warranty and then CPO after that). I came across many DCTs during that time so much so I was about to give up on finding a 6MT like I wanted. In the later years, the DCT/6MT ratio is about 2:1, so DCTs are much more common.

[kscarrol]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

I started my hunt for an E90 M3 2011 6MT with no sunroof but most other options (heated seats, iDrive, comfort access, etc) in early 2012. It took me until Feb of 2013 to find an acceptable, low-mileage, excellent condition example (16k miles, 2 years left under warranty and then CPO after that). I came across many DCTs during that time so much so I was about to give up on finding a 6MT like I wanted. In the later years, the DCT/6MT ratio is about 2:1, so DCTs are much more common.

I agree the DCT is more common, the number are what they are... But in the interest of full disclosure, did you come across MT E90's that had sun roofs and therefore were not acceptable? I only ask because your post makes it sound like the MT was the limiting factor so I wanted to clarify that point.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by kscarrol

I agree the DCT is more common, the number are what they are... But in the interest of full disclosure, did you come across MT E90's that had sun roofs and therefore were not acceptable? I only ask because your post makes it sound like the MT was the limiting factor so I wanted to clarify that point.

Yes, it seemed like when I'd find a 6MT that met all my requirements, it would either have a sunroof or not have heated seats/comfort access/etc. I passed on maybe 4 or 5 DCT cars that met all my requirements, one of which was in a color I wanted too.

[kscarrol]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

Yes, it seemed like when I'd find a 6MT that met all my requirements, it would either have a sunroof or not have heated seats/comfort access/etc. I passed on maybe 4 or 5 DCT cars that met all my requirements, one of which was in a color I wanted too.

Thanks for clarifying! They are out there, but harder to find. I would argue that folks on this forum are much more of the "enthusiast" crowd so demand for MT is higher than the general public...

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by kscarrol

Thanks for clarifying! They are out there, but harder to find. I would argue that folks on this forum are much more of the "enthusiast" crowd so demand for MT is higher than the general public...

By the way, the week after I bought mine, a 6MT without sunroof and with all the other options I wanted, including only 10k miles, popped up in Texas at a BMW dealer in LeMans Blue which was one of the colors I was hunting since I love it on my M5. Just the way the world works at times! I ended up with my least favorite color choice (SS II), but over the past 18 months it has grown on me a bit.

[Sinful]

I am new here, Geez lotta hate between MT and DCT?!
I have had the luck of driving both and they are actually both amazing.
MT and DCT are like two beautiful women, you want them both but you cant.
Well I guess you could if you were Brad Pitt or something...lol

[Devant]

Originally Posted by SinfulM3

I am new here, Geez lotta hate between MT and DCT?!
I have had the luck of driving both and they are actually both amazing.
MT and DCT are like two beautiful women, you want them both but you cant.
Well I guess you could if you were Brad Pitt or something...lol

New here too, I think this manual vs auto thing has been going since forever.

Now spill the beans which do you like better?

[Yvette]

enjoy your cars
sometimes I wish I had got DCT but sometimes I am glad I have MT? vice versa

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by kscarrol

I agree the DCT is more common, the number are what they are... But in the interest of full disclosure, did you come across MT E90's that had sun roofs and therefore were not acceptable? I only ask because your post makes it sound like the MT was the limiting factor so I wanted to clarify that point.

I know when I was buying my car I had a list of options that I wanted but they were in a list of descending importance. The only option which could not be compromised was that it was a DCT car. I would have thought thats how most people buy their used cars, I certainly didn't have the patience to wait months for the perfect car, I wanted one straight away. Luckily the car I bought had everything I wanted except EDC which I really wanted but I wasn't going to walk away from it because it didn't have it.

Originally Posted by e90sexion

enjoy your cars
sometimes I wish I had got DCT but sometimes I am glad I have MT? vice versa

Not even for a microsecond. I've owned or driven every type of MT there is included a 12 speed truck with no syncomesh at all. I totally get that how much fun an MT can be to drive but trust me eventually it will wear thin for most people - its why in the UK out of 6000 odd M3s sold only a few hundred are MTs.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Not even for a microsecond. I've owned or driven every type of MT there is included a 12 speed truck with no syncomesh at all. I totally get that how much fun an MT can be to drive but trust me eventually it will wear thin for most people - its why in the UK out of 6000 odd M3s sold only a few hundred are MTs.

Interesting how different tastes can be there versus here. Four out of my five cars are manuals, and I've been driving for 40 years, but that "eventually" hasn't come yet. The USA market is clearly different from the UK market. BMW realizes that and has made sure that the E60 M5 and F10 M5 were made available with a 6MT with the E60 being a USA only availability.

Of course BMW lost a small fortune for its SMG cars since the SMG E60 M5 was the most towed car in BMWNA history as a percent of cars sold. Profoundly unreliable compared to the manual. DCT reliability is clearly much better, but it sill succumbs to hard failures that strand drivers...even in its newest incarnation -- witness the thread on the F80 board with the guy stranded for 5 hours until 3am with his pregnant wife in the car with 200 miles on it. At some point down the road, DCT type trannys will have matured to modern automatic reliability.

[W///]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

I know when I was buying my car I had a list of options that I wanted but they were in a list of descending importance. The only option which could not be compromised was that it was a DCT car. I would have thought thats how most people buy their used cars, I certainly didn't have the patience to wait months for the perfect car, I wanted one straight away. Luckily the car I bought had everything I wanted except EDC which I really wanted but I wasn't going to walk away from it because it didn't have it.



Not even for a microsecond. I've owned or driven every type of MT there is included a 12 speed truck with no syncomesh at all. I totally get that how much fun an MT can be to drive but trust me eventually it will wear thin for most people - its why in the UK out of 6000 odd M3s sold only a few hundred are MTs.

Here's my list, in no particular order
Must:
1) MT
2) CF roof
3) E92

Very important:
1) Melbourne Red
2) Not silver interior
3) Idrive, upgraded speakers and heated seats

As you can see, after 6 months, I found my Sparkling Graphite and caved in. The combo of Sgraph + BB was too Individual-esque to pass up, and the car was insanely clean. Can't tell you how many times I've gone on Autotrader specifically searching for MT only, and the car would completely tick all the boxes but then have DCT because someone considered that a manual (up for debate I know). Or it'll be perfect, and the last picture would should a sunroof. That happened 4-5 times.

Honestly, it completely depends where you live and what you use the car for? If you live in a congested place like London, then yes DCT makes absolute sense. I live in Oxford for a couple of months and the traffic was horrendous at times too.

But for what I used my car for, in a place where traffic is considered 10 mins of stop and go, DCT just didn't make sense. Plus I've tried my best to like it. Driven it on the track (in the US and Germany) and loved it, but after an hour on normal roads, I just got bored. But again, I can absolutely respect people that like it for sure. It's great to have choices.