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05-27-2020, 12:10 PM | #1 |
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FULL E85 with SC M3 Complete
There always seems to be alot of back and forth on if a supercharged e90/e92/3M can run full e85 on the factory fuel pump. I will list out the mods my car has or had whos tune i used or currently use and be as transparent as possible. I see way to often that people are overly secretive regarding this platform and in my opinion it does nothing but hinder the platforms progress or growth.
First I would like to say I do not run nor do I support running any flex fuel kit on our car. Flex fuel resistor box are designed off of the premise of increasing injector duty cycle to account for the 30-40 percent more consumption require to make the same power or explosive energy as 93octane. These boxes do not account for timing or weather conditions. The biggest gain from e85 is it's detonation properties or resistance to such. With this you are able to run more advanced ignition timing targets with out pre detonation or knock at the same level found on 93/91. When you run a flex fuel box you are not able to take advantage of this until you are running a 93 tune that happens to be so aggressive the car reduces timing on its own at the presence of knock and when running e85 sense no knock there by allowing it to meet its timing target. ( believe this is the reason gintani does not sell the kit any longer.) While there seems to be speculation on if the problem is injectors or fuel pump I chose to give injectors a try first. I contacted frank smith with tunning tech, to get an e85 tune for my Ess 625 kit, My kit at the time was already running a smaller pulley 3.6 at the time equal to 8 psi depending t sea level. while I never was able to dyno the car I used a BMW logging software to monitor what the car saw for fuel pressure and AFR. I ran the tune for about a month before switch to RK tunes. The reason for the switch was a bootloading error that occurred when loading the TTFS tune that would constantly wake the car up after it was parked which eventually lead to coming out to dead battery or battery discharge warning. after going back and forth I choose to give someone else a try. Jordon at RK tunes sent me a tune for the injectors I was planning to run 1050CC (another claim that the factory ecu can not control these injectors due to size). I also had purchased a smaller pulley 3.48 to be exact. Jason another SC m3 owner made the jump at the same time to get his tune done. Jason dyno tuned in person while I conducted mine remotely via street tune. Jason's car on 93 oct produced just short of 600whp. 598WHP 422WTQ to be exact. On Full e85 car made 676whp with 461WTQ with the factory fuel pump. While these are awesome numbers your car will run a bit leaner at speed on the street then it will on the dyno as this was the first hicup that was found for both jason and my self. both of Our factory 100kmile fuel pumps could not keep up with the demand after 3rd gear as the cars compensation table began to request more fuel then was achievable on factory pump. Here is where we stop. Both jason and I were running 3.48 pulleys which make roughly 9 psi at peak. on a Factory 625pulley 3.8 roughly 7 psi the car was able to account for the fuel consumption at speed with no issue but beyond 3.8 the factory fuel pump could not keep up and the pressure drop around 38 PSI after 7k RPM beyond 3RD WOT. Fix. \ Fuelit developed a Drop in add on fuel pump hanger that fits in our fuel tank. This secondary fuel pump is optioned as a walbo 450/485 or the hellcat 525 fuel pump. The secondary fuel pump is activated via a 4 psi HOBBS switch that completes a ground circuit. Fuel it sent me the wrong hobs switch so I chose to instead use my snow performance boost cooler stage 2 controller to send the signal to turn on the pump instead. This allowed me to test for pump pressure and change my activation psi to where I wanted it. In my case I choose to move mine to 5 psi as I made another change to 3.3 pulley. https://www.fuel-it.com/fi-650hp-bmw...-lpfp-upgrade/ Now proof in the putting because honestly Dyno numbers mean nothing. at -700 da Jason E92M DCT pulled a best of 7.03 valid the invalid run of 6.75 60-130 for 100-200khm 6.02 (stock clutches stock motor) 3.48pulley factory fuel lines My E90m on 19s also no weight reduction pulled a 200 da pulled a 6.80 60-130 and a 5.85 100-200 (stock clutches stock motor) 3.3 pulley factory fuel lines. I currently am testing an smaller pulley and rear mounted ice tank that i will post when I have a chance to test. This all being done on FACTORY clutches, stock 114k mile motor, factory fuel lines. I have been running this setup for just short of 1 year. With a lot of racing, long drives, and currently daily the car on Full e85. Anyone looking to make this change to 1050cc injector are recommend to use the wiring specialist wired adapters from ev1 to uscar, the single pc adapters that are found on eBay and Amazon will cause random cylinder drop out. Anyone looking to make the jump can PM me and I will assist with getting you the pump and injectors at a discounted price. Will upload Dyno and Draggy Print outs tonight or you can check my IG @properstyleprince for them.
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2011 E90m3 ESS G2, active auto x pipe, RK FULL E85, DD
2015 X5M Bootmod3, Downpipes, Mineral white-The wifes DD 1994 300zx 2jz Swapped slicktop- The toy/track car Last edited by Properstyle; 05-20-2022 at 05:57 PM.. |
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05-27-2020, 12:28 PM | #2 |
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Dyno [IMG][/IMG]
Draggy
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2011 E90m3 ESS G2, active auto x pipe, RK FULL E85, DD
2015 X5M Bootmod3, Downpipes, Mineral white-The wifes DD 1994 300zx 2jz Swapped slicktop- The toy/track car |
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05-27-2020, 02:07 PM | #4 | |
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295/30/19 on F14 19x11s Honestly 60 is not the greatest roll its too high for 2nd and two low from 3rd to get that full punch. But for hooking sakes 50 is power roll in 2nd gear. there is a slight spin off the hit but if you grab 3rd the car spins and moves. 1st gear 30mph is possible but a bit to violent to use 20 in st is better.
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2011 E90m3 ESS G2, active auto x pipe, RK FULL E85, DD
2015 X5M Bootmod3, Downpipes, Mineral white-The wifes DD 1994 300zx 2jz Swapped slicktop- The toy/track car |
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05-27-2020, 05:40 PM | #5 |
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Nice job congrats brother.
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05-27-2020, 08:16 PM | #6 |
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Just tired of all the hidden data for those tryna go further with the platform. All the claims of 600whp equals blown motor not possible on factory clutches etc. just want to see people go fast and not give up on our platform when options are available.
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2011 E90m3 ESS G2, active auto x pipe, RK FULL E85, DD
2015 X5M Bootmod3, Downpipes, Mineral white-The wifes DD 1994 300zx 2jz Swapped slicktop- The toy/track car |
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05-27-2020, 08:26 PM | #7 | |
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Anyway sounds like yours is nicely sorted.
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05-27-2020, 11:16 PM | #8 | ||
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2011 E90m3 ESS G2, active auto x pipe, RK FULL E85, DD
2015 X5M Bootmod3, Downpipes, Mineral white-The wifes DD 1994 300zx 2jz Swapped slicktop- The toy/track car |
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05-28-2020, 06:31 AM | #9 |
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I don’t think you need straight meth for your cooling purposes when also running E85. I’d go 50:50 or maybe more water. Water cools better than meth. And E85 gives all the octane you need. The trick is getting enough in there without messing up the tune. You might want a tune that factors in the meth but that is risky if it stops flowing.
Hopefully you are using a good proportional flow system like the Aquamist that follows injector duty cycle so it is load based. Also don’t set the trigger too low. You might want to add a boost based onset trigger and not start until at least halfway to your peak boost. And in cold weather you may need to reduce flow by changing injectors or dialing back the onset and rate of gain. I’ve been running Aquamist on my turbo cars for 20 years. I even run water meth in my naturally aspirated E90 M3 through a Vishnu Procede, which is no longer available. That system uses some Aquamist parts. But the Procede is a piggyback tune that factors in the water meth. Does the OP have a fan or fans on the air to water intercooler heat exchanger? If not fans had he considered water spray on the outside of the exchanger core if he is not running track events where this would be prohibited? Has he upgraded the heat exchanger? Is he using a reservoir to add capacity? Is the pump high enough capacity? |
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05-28-2020, 10:17 AM | #10 | |
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I personally would choose straight meth as it ads a better flashing to ignite the flash. a few of the NA lS7 high ram cars use it this way and the intake its damn near frosty after a wot pulls on the dyno. yes I run a 3.5 gallon 10x10 ice tank in the trunk of my car now. The only benefit is longer cooling temps but on the con side it does take longer to cool the temps back down. honestly if I was going to go back to running at the track Id run a larger pulley to drop boost or do like I did before were I moved to shifting at 6500 to keep temps down. the car makes so much power before 7k now that don't need to go to redline as it makes 7 psi now at 5500rpm. Still on the stock ess cooler though I am looking in to a larger one. I was going to buy the one sold by vf but 700 dollars is overly inflated price for a single pass heat exchanger when even the csf rad they sell cost 200 less.
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2011 E90m3 ESS G2, active auto x pipe, RK FULL E85, DD
2015 X5M Bootmod3, Downpipes, Mineral white-The wifes DD 1994 300zx 2jz Swapped slicktop- The toy/track car |
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05-28-2020, 10:21 AM | #11 |
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Would there be a chance to run E85 on an N / A engine? I understand that you would have to add the additional pump and perhaps modify something else? for example injectors?
I had also heard that always running E85 is bad for the fuel system as it dries out all the parts a lot... Good job Properstyle
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05-28-2020, 10:26 AM | #12 | |
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2011 E90m3 ESS G2, active auto x pipe, RK FULL E85, DD
2015 X5M Bootmod3, Downpipes, Mineral white-The wifes DD 1994 300zx 2jz Swapped slicktop- The toy/track car |
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05-29-2020, 08:40 AM | #14 | ||
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05-29-2020, 08:46 AM | #15 | |
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On my other car my tank is clear as is 100% meth so i usually pour in a little boost juice to provide color so i can more easily recognize the level in the tank.
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05-29-2020, 09:16 AM | #16 | |||
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05-29-2020, 09:20 AM | #17 |
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I run what Vishnu supplied with the Procede kit, which I believe is two 1.0mm nozzles that flow in total 750-800 cc at 100% duty cycle. I don’t know whether the programming hits that total or is based off fuel injector duty cycle and reaches maybe 75%.
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=636636 I believe he did a 3 nozzle kit for a supercharged car but don’t know the details. https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=589573 I do not think he did any systems for E85 cars. E85 has the octane to handle high IAT, but the IAT sensor does not know that so it is telling the ECU to pull timing when no pull is necessary so I can see how water or water with some meth would help if injected before the IAT sensor. I buy M1 from VP at the drag strip for $3-4 per gallon. I have a couple of the blue 5 gallon containers that I refill. I mix my own using distilled water usually at 70/30 meth water though this is potentially dangerous because it is flammable. 50/50 is safer and probably fine. I would use boost juice if I ran out and needed to buy some locally or order online. Many years ago I ran winter mix washer fluid, the blue stuff good to -20F because it is about 30% methanol but I found it left crusty stuff in the nozzles over time that clogged them. Probably a little soap. Last edited by pbonsalb; 05-29-2020 at 09:34 AM.. |
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06-10-2020, 01:50 AM | #19 |
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I am using the G-Power SC kit with around 9-10PSI on stock internals, fuel system and clutch. Best 100-200 was 5.59 sec. But i can only run those numbers during cold weather (under 50). Everything above 50 will increase IATs to over 100 and the car pulls timing. Fortunately we have premium gas with around 95 AON here (Aral ultimate 102). This helps against knock. So this platform is capable of more than just 600whp
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