Harrop twin screw sc for s65

[DavidZ]

I'm sure this info is somewhere in these 52 pages, but I couldn't find it. Seeing how the SC hooks up to the stock intake with no other visible air plumbing - I can't imagine this has an air-to-air intercooler. Is it an air-to-water intercooler?

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by DavidZ

I'm sure this info is somewhere in these 52 pages, but I couldn't find it. Seeing how the SC hooks up to the stock intake with no other visible air plumbing - I can't imagine this has an air-to-air intercooler. Is it an air-to-water intercooler?

Yes, the cores are built into the manifold, and there is a front mount heat exchanger.

You can see one of the coolers pulled out in this picture:

[DavidZ]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

Yes, the cores are built into the manifold, and there is a front mount heat exchanger.

You can see one of the coolers pulled out in this picture:

Oh, yes, I've seen that picture on the Harrop web page but didn't realize that was a cooler pulled from the SC housing - I thought it might be a FMIC (without having read or looked closer). I also see the front mount heat exchanger in this pic:


I guess the water pump is electrical?

[BPM]

Originally Posted by DavidZ

Oh, yes, I've seen that picture on the Harrop web page but didn't realize that was a cooler pulled from the SC housing - I thought it might be a FMIC (without having read or looked closer). I also see the front mount heat exchanger in this pic:


I guess the water pump is electrical?

Yes, you can see it pictured on the top right. It uses a Bosch OEM pump.

[Sered]

How is the fitment and install done for the heat exchanger? That little fella is BIG. Does it sit behind the kidney grill or something?

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by Sered

How is the fitment and install done for the heat exchanger? That little fella is BIG. Does it sit behind the kidney grill or something?

Really easy. It slides in and sits right above the oil cooler. Two screws keep it in place if I recall correctly. It's just the right size to fit perfectly in there.

[Grk_M3]

Has anyone run this charger with a meth kit? If not, is it possible?

[pbonsalb]

Mike Benvo has not yet made any comments about results from the meth kit and piggyback that he recently bought.

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Mike Benvo has not yet made any comments about results from the meth kit and piggyback that he recently bought.

Perhaps I haven't made comments because it's sitting in the box unopened and because I have absolutely no intention of installing it on my car?

A little scary that my purchase history is being tracked.. Not to mention, it wasn't even a purchase, it was a charitable donation...

[pbonsalb]

I was hoping you were going to play around with meth tuning.

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I was hoping you were going to play around with meth tuning.

Not interested in something I have to refill/maintain. I want the car to need oil, gas, and tires only - aside from plugs, coolant, and brake fluid etc...

Plus, I'm completely content with the power the car has, although I do have a 9 PSI pulley on the shelf. I haven't put it on because I'm not interested in mixing 100 octane or E85 with 91. Maybe if there was a closer station I would consider it.

I daily drive a near 700HP M5, and when I get back into the M3 I actually like the linearity of the power delivery.

[Grk_M3]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

Not interested in something I have to refill/maintain. I want the car to need oil, gas, and tires only - aside from plugs, coolant, and brake fluid etc...

Plus, I'm completely content with the power the car has, although I do have a 9 PSI pulley on the shelf. I haven't put it on because I'm not interested in mixing 100 octane or E85 with 91. Maybe if there was a closer of station.

Mike, is that 9psi pulley intended for the Harrop stage 2? For those that are considering the Harrop kit, do you see any benefits with adding a meth kit in the mix?

[Sered]

Originally Posted by BobS

Fair enough....

I will say though you can't deny there are some real heart breaker dyno's out there and also some that read real high, not to mention different kinds. Good comparison's though, its interesting to see the differences in tq/hp area under the curve.

With ESS pricing their 625 kit at $8995, its almost impossible to beat for the $$

Bob, keep in mind us 6MT cars fall down to ~4900-5000rpms when shifting into 2nd and 3rd. That's WAAAAY out of the powerband

And agreed. The 650 kit for me was a steal and came with an x-pipe. The 7rib conversion plus the bigger crank pulley makes for a nice platform to go further if I want to mod later.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by Grk_M3

Mike, is that 9psi pulley intended for the Harrop stage 2? For those that are considering the Harrop kit, do you see any benefits with adding a meth kit in the mix?

The problem is that any production kit seller has to worry about the idiot who does not fill the meth tank or a failure of the system. Some kits have a failsafe, like the Vishnu, Aquamist, etc. But with a fixed drive blower, what do you connect the failsafe to? You would have to tie it into a valet mode or something to limit rpm to limit boost. Similar issue with E85 tunes unless using a flex fuel sensor or E85 content sensor and failsafe to drop boost or rpm or timing.

On pump gas, 9 psi is a lot to have in the peak cylinder pressure midrange on a 12.0:1 CR port injection motor. Might also be con rod strength issues.

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

Not interested in something I have to refill/maintain. I want the car to need oil, gas, and tires only - aside from plugs, coolant, and brake fluid etc...

Plus, I'm completely content with the power the car has, although I do have a 9 PSI pulley on the shelf. I haven't put it on because I'm not interested in mixing 100 octane or E85 with 91. Maybe if there was a closer station I would consider it.

I daily drive a near 700HP M5, and when I get back into the M3 I actually like the linearity of the power delivery.

Hey Mike, I guy 5 gallon pales of 105 Unleaded from a place called Hot Rod Performance. Its in Torrance and its $73.00 out the door for the 5 gal. pale. Also, on Pico and Barrington there is a 76 station that sells Sunoco 100 unleaded. Just if you ever want to give it a try.

The 76 Station on Lincoln and 83rd St. in Playa sells 5 gallon pales of 101 VP unleaded for $65.00. The VP MS109 is a better deal at $73.00 as you don't have to blend as much.

Dave

[Dave07997S]

Hey Mikey..

[81bear]

Originally Posted by Sered

Bob, keep in mind us 6MT cars fall down to ~4900-5000rpms when shifting into 2nd and 3rd. That's WAAAAY out of the powerband

And agreed. The 650 kit for me was a steal and came with an x-pipe. The 7rib conversion plus the bigger crank pulley makes for a nice platform to go further if I want to mod later.

Comparing the two kits at 5500-6000 rpm the Harrop and ESS 625 kits seem to be basically identical power wise. Between 5000-5500 rpm the Harrop kit has about 10-15TQ advantage and a 5-10HP advantage. Above 6000 rpm the 625 kit seems to gap the Harrop kit by a fair margin by redline. I would imagine the gap would be even larger with the 650 kits.

[Sered]

Originally Posted by 81bear

Comparing the two kits at 5500-6000 rpm the Harrop and ESS 625 kits seem to be basically identical power wise. Between 5000-5500 rpm the Harrop kit has about 10-15TQ advantage and a 5-10HP advantage. Above 6000 rpm the 625 kit seems to gap the Harrop kit by a fair margin by redline. I would imagine the gap would be even larger with the 650 kits.

The ESS kit he linked is vastly outperforming what a normal ESS kit does. An average ESS-vt2-625 does about 525-530whp; the one I saw up there was showing one doing 560whp? or so. The 650 kits are starting in that range.

[81bear]

Originally Posted by Sered

The ESS kit he linked is vastly outperforming what a normal ESS kit does. An average ESS-vt2-625 does about 525-530whp; the one I saw up there was showing one doing 560whp? or so. The 650 kits are starting in that range.

http://www.s65dynos.com/

Going through the dyno database and isolating on the 625 kits seems to show an average of around 560whp... Now that does include supporting mods as well.

[Sered]

Originally Posted by 81bear

http://www.s65dynos.com/

Going through the dyno database and isolating on the 625 kits seems to show an average of around 560whp... Now that does include supporting mods as well.

Those readings do not reflect the average and become more unreliable as time goes on because people don't post their results when they think they're reading low. Those are on super cold days and/or high-reading dynos and/or high-elevation runs with huge correction for the most part.

The average kit does not make that much power (and trap speeds reflect this). A standard 625 kit making 6-6.5psi is going to make ~530whp on a dynojet with test pipes on a 75degF day w/o race gas. I've seen the unintercooled kits do this yes, but I'm talking average runs. VF540/VF625 kits also do this. The VT2-650 kits make between 560-580whp at 8psi on 93.

People can make claims about SAE correction and other stuff; but that correction does not take into account timing/fueling corrections due to high IATs; only high ambients, so it's pretty inaccurate.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by Sered

Those readings do not reflect the average and become more unreliable as time goes on because people don't post their results when they think they're reading low. Those are on super cold days and/or high-reading dynos and/or high-elevation runs with huge correction for the most part.

The average kit does not make that much power (and trap speeds reflect this). A standard 625 kit making 6-6.5psi is going to make ~530whp on a dynojet with test pipes on a 75degF day w/o race gas. I've seen the unintercooled kits do this yes, but I'm talking average runs. VF540/VF625 kits also do this. The VT2-650 kits make between 560-580whp at 8psi on 93.

People can make claims about SAE correction and other stuff; but that correction does not take into account timing/fueling corrections due to high IATs; only high ambients, so it's pretty inaccurate.

OK. Find us an equal number of Harrop dynos so we can determine whether the linked one is accurate or not. I have only seen 2-3 Harrop dynos, but many ESS dynos.

[MrBlonde]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

OK. Find us an equal number of Harrop dynos so we can determine whether the linked one is accurate or not. I have only seen 2-3 Harrop dynos, but many ESS dynos.

Not this again!