Intermittent Ticking sound... again

[Putrid4444]

Hi guys,

I know this has been posted many times, but i cant seem to find any info on a solution to this problem.

Some background info on the car:

Car is a 2010 E92 m3 6spd
Bearings were replaced 10 months ago by previous owner
Actuators were replaced
Water pump was replaced
Prop, flywheel & clutch replaced

This is my 2nd E92 m3


I bought the car maybe just over a month ago.
Car went through quality check by BMW before i bought it, BMW said everything is 100s except it needed a oil service and new oil pressure switch, that was done. 8 bar oil pressure, which i was told is great.

Got the car back, the oil readings were irregular ie: Car would read oil is full, then after 20-30km it would read half, then almost empty ie: Minimum oil level asking to top up with 1 litre, Once you reset the oil level, it would be back to full and so on.

The other issue is, when the car is completely warm, there is a irregular ticking sound that comes from under the plenum in the "V"
When you hold revs at 1200rpm the ticking sound is more present than at idle.
I should also mention that it does not do this on cold start, only when it gets to proper temp 90-100'c.
The ticking sound is also not audible/there when revving over 1800rpm.

I have got multiple dealers and sources to diagnose the issue and have done quite a lot of research online regarding the exact same issues others are experiencing.

The dealer which knows the car (It has only ever gone to this dealer) first diagnosed it as possible actuator gears getting stuck, but after further diagnoses pinned it down to be the timing chain tensioners which need to be replaced.

So a week ago I got the car back from such repairs (Oil leveling sensor for the oil reading issues and the timing chain tensioners for the ticking sound), the car is doing the exact same things as previously, so im pulling my hair out here.

Took it to another dealer (dealer i had replace the levelling sensor & timing chain tensioners) for further diagnoses:

They removed the tapit cover in attempt to pin point the ticking sound.
Their conclusion is:

Timing chains need to be replaced as there is some slack on the chain and is hitting the guide rails.

- I should also mention they were unsure that the guide rails should have plastic guards on them which they then confirmed with another master technician it should, so the timing chain is hitting metal as apparently the plastic guard on the guide rail has miraculously vanished and is not there, they said it could have fallen into the sump, which is absurd to me.
They also said that all 4 Vanos units need to be replaced as it goes hand in hand when replacing the timing chains, and that if you dont put new VANOS units when putting new timing chains, you "could" eventually bend valves.
I dont understand how they can just assume that, if the Vanos units are not physically faulty.

Below are pictures they took, if you click on the image it will take you to the pictures:




Does anyone have more insight as to this being timing chains and VANOS units.

The quote received was a huge shock.
From a simple oil service to a massive bill as the noises only arised after they did an oil service.

Its so typical of them to just load new parts for everything as new parts will definitely fix the issue, instead of pin pointing a fault, it feels like they just guessing and throwing new parts in hope it solves it.

From what i have read up on, most of the issues they had from the ticking sound was the heat shield by the manifold, different oil used but there is no clear answer as to how it was solved.
I cant believe this noise is "normal"

All of the issues with the ticking sound was mostly always after a oil service/change.


PS: This is NOT Mr Rod making knock knock jokes.

The video below is the exact noise mine is making except mine is slightly louder:

Any help and advise would be much appreciated

[Putrid4444]

Update:

I have taken the car to another mechanic that specializes in BMW and M BMW's .

They have ruled out any possibility of it being Timing chain or VANOS units.

I should mention that there is a slight "hum" or "Rrrrrrr" when in low RPM's, the sound is also much more present in 5th gear.
They have said that these issues are One in the same with the ticking sound, and you can also here the "ticking" noise in higher RPM's (not only 1100-1800) but be cause of exhaust noise its not as audible, but they have picked it up.

Their conclusion is that it is coming from the bottom of the engine, possibly crank related (that it might be "floating") or the main bearing or thruster bearing that has caused wear on the crank, the next option is to open up the bottom end and further diagnose where the problem is coming from.

Im actually hoping it is bearing related as BMW would need to attend to this as they replaced the bearings 5000km/11months ago, and there is a 2 year warranty on parts and work done.

Im just hoping that they stick to that and because it was diagnosed at a mechanic other than a BMW dealer mechanic as not Timing chains and Vanos units they actually do the bottom end work.

It amazes me that they would have made me pay for new timing chains and Vanos units only to possibly not fix a problem, that was possibly their fault.

[dpsb]

My car makes the EXACT same noise immediately after an oil change and then slowly it goes away after a thousand miles or so. I took it back to my independent mechanic who did the oil change, and he tried a different kind of oil first, then a lifter treatment of some kind next, both to no avail.

After doing a bunch of research here and seeing a few owners that said their cars have been doing it for years, I've decided to just let it go for now.

Would be really interested to know if you are actually able to diagnose and solve it though! Good luck.

[dpsb]

Not sure if this will play here, or just link to vimeo, but here's mine...

vimeo.com/330778177

This is immediately after the oil change. It starts to subside after about a hundred miles and then it's completely gone after about a thousand.

[///M Power-Belgium]

I'm pretty sure your ticking noise is bearing related .

The next 2 videos are from a Bimmerpost member , back in time (4 years ago) he made a thread about his ticking bearing issue .
In his # 1 video you can hear exactly the same ticking noise just like yours in your video.

# 1 video = Before his bearing replacement with ticking noises

# 2 video = After his bearing replacement without ticking noises

[Putrid4444]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

I'm pretty sure your ticking noise is bearing related .

The next 2 videos are from a Bimmerpost member , back in time (4 years ago) he made a thread about his ticking bearing issue .
In his # 1 video you can hear exactly the same ticking noise just like yours in your video.

# 1 video = Before his bearing replacement with ticking noises

# 2 video = After his bearing replacement without ticking noises

Thanks so much for this, i'd way rather this be a bearing issue than crank or timing chains + Vanos (cheaper to replace)

Would you mind sending the link to his post, if it is still available?

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Putrid4444

Thanks so much for this, i'd way rather this be a bearing issue than crank or timing chains + Vanos (cheaper to replace)

Would you mind sending the link to his post, if it is still available?

Sure . I can do that ..His username is *Scrippy*

Here is his thread from in *2015*. And in # 85 you can watch his video with the bearing ticking noise from before his bearing replacement => https://www.m3post.com/forums/showth...1129386&page=4

[dpsb]

Not sure that's quite definitive evidence, but I'm well on my way to 50k miles, so the bearings will be on the list soon anyway. I'll update this thread if that eliminates the ticking post oil change.

[Scrippy]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

I'm pretty sure your ticking noise is bearing related .

The next 2 videos are from a Bimmerpost member , back in time (4 years ago) he made a thread about his ticking bearing issue .
In his # 1 video you can hear exactly the same ticking noise just like yours in your video.

# 1 video = Before his bearing replacement with ticking noises

# 2 video = After his bearing replacement without ticking noises

So these are my videos and I have done my RB's twice. This ticking is still present after many years and miles. I have noticed fresh oil in the summer months and this tick is present once up to operating temp. Once the oil gets 1000-1500 miles on it it becomes less frequent but still there on hot days. In the winter I don't hear it much if at all. I have kind of come to the conclusion it is one of the hydraulic valve lifters needing replacement. I think one is not filling up fully and slapping up and down in a compressed state. One of these days I will rebuild my valve train and report in. All and all it's nothing to worry about really. I have 190,000 and the car pulls hard still. If anyone does definitively diagnose this please hook a brother up. I despise this noise because it cheapens the car IMO.

Long story short.......TICK NOT DUE TO ROD BEARINGS.

[Putrid4444]

Originally Posted by Scrippy

So these are my videos and I have done my RB's twice. This ticking is still present after many years and miles. I have noticed fresh oil in the summer months and this tick is present once up to operating temp. Once the oil gets 1000-1500 miles on it it becomes less frequent but still there on hot days. In the winter I don't hear it much if at all. I have kind of come to the conclusion it is one of the hydraulic valve lifters needing replacement. I think one is not filling up fully and slapping up and down in a compressed state. One of these days I will rebuild my valve train and report in. All and all it's nothing to worry about really. I have 190,000 and the car pulls hard still. If anyone does definitively diagnose this please hook a brother up. I despise this noise because it cheapens the car IMO.

Long story short.......TICK NOT DUE TO ROD BEARINGS.

Scrippy Thanks for the insight and response.
That is unfortunate

I still cant see how that ticking noise is "normal" my previous E92 M3 DCT 2012 never had any issues like that at all even after oil changes and it was similar KM to what my current one has (DCT - 98000km 6spd - 112000km)

When i had the car QC before i purchased it the dealer found metal shavings in the oil filter, their response was that is normal "break in" when replacing bearings and thus the car needed its first oil change after replacing the RB.
Surely any form of metal shavings in the oil is not a good sign.

Maybe the other dealers conclusion of it being the timing chain slapping against the guide rails could be more believable? I dont actually know anymore

One place says timing chains, the other says crank/main bearings/thruster bearing due to vibration and noise while driving and depressing clutch etc. I should also add that when i asked the first dealer (who has done all the work on the car with previous owner) They said that noise/vibration is normal as all Manual "M" cars have a noisy and notchy gearbox so it wasn't anything to worry about.

The mechanic where it currently is also mentioned it is not a lifter issue.

I guess the only way to figure this issue out is to take the motor out and diagnose fully.
But for me that has owned the car for a month (private sale) i refuse to pay over R100 000/$9000 for repairs to the car, and unfortunately im not sure if i have a leg to stand on to return the car to previous owner who sold the car the car to me.
Luckily the previous owner is decent enough to also want to fight BMW on this, as this could potentially be there fault when it comes to bearings, as he paid for 8+8 main bearings and 16 conrod bearings replacement (car is/was out of plan)

Will be collecting the car today from aftermarket bmw mechanic and hopefully be taking it into the dealer who did the bearing work.
Will update if anything is resolved regarding the ticking sound.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Scrippy

So these are my videos and I have done my RB's twice. This ticking is still present after many years and miles. I have noticed fresh oil in the summer months and this tick is present once up to operating temp. Once the oil gets 1000-1500 miles on it it becomes less frequent but still there on hot days. In the winter I don't hear it much if at all. I have kind of come to the conclusion it is one of the hydraulic valve lifters needing replacement. I think one is not filling up fully and slapping up and down in a compressed state. One of these days I will rebuild my valve train and report in. All and all it's nothing to worry about really. I have 190,000 and the car pulls hard still. If anyone does definitively diagnose this please hook a brother up. I despise this noise because it cheapens the car IMO.

Long story short.......TICK NOT DUE TO ROD BEARINGS.

Well it's actually strange . In your video after your bearing replacement you said :
* Listen to her idle ..So nice and quiet now ...Your hear that ? Nothing ! *
I heard it in your video from after your bearing replacement, it was quiet and the ticking noise was gone ...

From my experience from over the years (2012-2019) I heard the same ticking noises in videos . Followed by running hotter . And finally their S65 got bearing failure ...
I know our S65 has the typical ticking sewing machine noise . It comes from our valve train , and it is completely normal for the S65/85 engines .
The ticking noise in your videos sounds completely different .

[Scrippy]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Well it's actually strange . In your video after your bearing replacement you said :
* Listen to her idle ..So nice and quiet now ...Your hear that ? Nothing ! *
I heard it in your video from after your bearing replacement, it was quiet and the ticking noise was gone ...

From my experience from over the years (2012-2019) I heard the same ticking noises in videos . Followed by running hotter . And finally their S65 got bearing failure ...
I know our S65 has the typical ticking sewing machine noise . It comes from our valve train , and it is completely normal for the S65/85 engines .
The ticking noise in your videos sounds completely different .

Yeah that quiet went away after some miles. I really do not think this tick is RB related. I don't buy the heat shield theory either. My money is on valve adjuster but I am not a motor builder. I have honestly just accepted this tick. I am not worried about engine problems, just annoyed. I have accepted this motor as it is and still love it. I've heard many S65's that do this.

[Scrippy]

Originally Posted by Putrid4444

Scrippy Thanks for the insight and response.
That is unfortunate

I still cant see how that ticking noise is "normal" my previous E92 M3 DCT 2012 never had any issues like that at all even after oil changes and it was similar KM to what my current one has (DCT - 98000km 6spd - 112000km)

When i had the car QC before i purchased it the dealer found metal shavings in the oil filter, their response was that is normal "break in" when replacing bearings and thus the car needed its first oil change after replacing the RB.
Surely any form of metal shavings in the oil is not a good sign.

Maybe the other dealers conclusion of it being the timing chain slapping against the guide rails could be more believable? I dont actually know anymore

One place says timing chains, the other says crank/main bearings/thruster bearing due to vibration and noise while driving and depressing clutch etc. I should also add that when i asked the first dealer (who has done all the work on the car with previous owner) They said that noise/vibration is normal as all Manual "M" cars have a noisy and notchy gearbox so it wasn't anything to worry about.

The mechanic where it currently is also mentioned it is not a lifter issue.

I guess the only way to figure this issue out is to take the motor out and diagnose fully.
But for me that has owned the car for a month (private sale) i refuse to pay over R100 000/$9000 for repairs to the car, and unfortunately im not sure if i have a leg to stand on to return the car to previous owner who sold the car the car to me.
Luckily the previous owner is decent enough to also want to fight BMW on this, as this could potentially be there fault when it comes to bearings, as he paid for 8+8 main bearings and 16 conrod bearings replacement (car is/was out of plan)

Will be collecting the car today from aftermarket bmw mechanic and hopefully be taking it into the dealer who did the bearing work.
Will update if anything is resolved regarding the ticking sound.

Honestly this tick hasn't changed and I've done RB's twice. I don't think it's a noise to worry about but I do think this forum will rejoice when we find out what it is lol! I would say just enjoy your car man. This motor likes to make a racket that's for sure and it's not as sensitive as folks think. Again.....I got this tick around 25,000 and now have 190,000 with zero problems.