DIY: S65 M3 Rod Bearing

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by M3MPH1S

Does anyone have any input on if the rod needs rehoning due to the change in torque from the new bolts? I've been told that torquing down the new bolts could cause slight deformation (due to it being a circle) that could cause premature wear on the bearings.

I can't see why

The BE-ARP spec is specifically designed to solve the issues with the regular ARP bolts and cap deformation.
This issue was identified in M3F on the S54 a long time ago and the issues persist in the S65

The BE-ARP bolt does not deform the cap regardless of which bearing you use, whether it's BE or OEM/WPC, etc

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by M3MPH1S

Does anyone have any input on if the rod needs rehoning due to the change in torque from the new bolts? I've been told that torquing down the new bolts could cause slight deformation (due to it being a circle) that could cause premature wear on the bearings.

Maybe in a theoretical sense but in practice it's not a concern worth entertaining. In a perfect world you would check each rod for straightness, hone, and also measure the bearing clearance with a bore mic with the rods out. Since getting the rods out pretty much requires a full teardown of the engine, it's not even remotely practical while swapping bearings.

The torque value for at least the BE ARP bolts was not arrived at arbitrarily. There was testing involved and many measurements taken to find a torque number that gave the most circular rod bore. So, we use calibrated torque wrenches and proceed as directed in faith, with BE's warranty as security.

[simt]

Hi SYT_Shadow,
could you say more about the failure after the job?

At the end of the 2nd post you have an update about a failure due to improper installation!? I looked through all the posts in this thread from that date and didn't see anything further on that failure. Are you able to elaborate on it? Was it minor failure that simply needed the bearings to be properly reseated? Or did it destroy the engine?

I'm a keen DIYer, but had been hesitant to do this one because I've heard of a few cars that still experience engine destroying failures even after getting their rod bearings replaced. -This is one of those jobs you just don't want to get wrong. But then I found and read through your whole DIY, really liking it and getting the confidence to tackle this myself - then I saw that update and I feel like I'm back at square one.

-Simeon

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

...........

----------------------
Update 6/27/2018

Apparently we have had a failure due to improper installation.

Please note the bearings have notches which 'fit' into the cap and into the rod. So the cap bearing has a notch that fits inside the cap and the rod bearing has a notch that fits into the rod.
It is essential for the bearings to be fully seated. They have to be seated and level on both sides of the cap and the rod.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by simt

Hi SYT_Shadow,
could you say more about the failure after the job?

At the end of the 2nd post you have an update about a failure due to improper installation!? I looked through all the posts in this thread from that date and didn't see anything further on that failure. Are you able to elaborate on it? Was it minor failure that simply needed the bearings to be properly reseated? Or did it destroy the engine?

I'm a keen DIYer, but had been hesitant to do this one because I've heard of a few cars that still experience engine destroying failures even after getting their rod bearings replaced. -This is one of those jobs you just don't want to get wrong. But then I found and read through your whole DIY, really liking it and getting the confidence to tackle this myself - then I saw that update and I feel like I'm back at square one.

-Simeon

That was the proverbial 'we'. As in, the M3 community

Someone had theirs installed incorrectly and blew their engine.

There have been a few thousand sales of increased clearance bearings and how many failures are there to show for it?

One should be careful when having shops who don't know what they're doing disassemble their engine

[simt]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

That was the proverbial 'we'. As in, the M3 community

Someone had theirs installed incorrectly and blew their engine.

There have been a few thousand sales of increased clearance bearings and how many failures are there to show for it?

One should be careful when having shops who don't know what they're doing disassemble their engine

Oh I get it, you were speaking on behalf of the whole community. -And this fail case with a BE (increased clearance) bearing, was due to improper installation anyway.
-Since my question to you, I've been reading more, and I will go ahead and do the job myself. I'm a reasonably experienced DIYer, this job seems fairly straightforward. -Especially thanks to all the detail you've put up, noting the care points.

-Simeon

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by simt

Oh I get it, you were speaking on behalf of the whole community. -And this fail case with a BE (increased clearance) bearing, was due to improper installation anyway.
-Since my question to you, I've been reading more, and I will go ahead and do the job myself. I'm a reasonably experienced DIYer, this job seems fairly straightforward. -Especially thanks to all the detail you've put up, noting the care points.

-Simeon

If you run into a roadblock feel free to pm me

[simt]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

If you run into a roadblock feel free to pm me

Thanks man. Appreciate it.

Building a home garage at the moment. I'm trying to decide how to allocate budget. Tossing up whether to spring for a car hoist, but sacrifice elsewhere. Or do I just get some 6-ton truck jacks and and go through the pain-in-the-arse process of getting the car up onto them...

-Simeon

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by simt

Thanks man. Appreciate it.

Building a home garage at the moment. I'm trying to decide how to allocate budget. Tossing up whether to spring for a car hoist, but sacrifice elsewhere. Or do I just get some 6-ton truck jacks and and go through the pain-in-the-arse process of getting the car up onto them...

-Simeon

Quickjack is your solution

[TheBreeze]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Quickjack is your solution

True dat. Order directly from Quickjack and use coupon code MONEY for $100 off, plus you get free shipping. I just got the 5000 EXT and use it on my entire stable of cars, including the x5. Really great tool.

[pbonsalb]

If quickjack is $1200, maxjax is $1800, Greg Smith 2 post is $1800, and a 4 post is $2400, which do you choose among these inexpensive lift options (you can spend more — $6k on a fancy 2 or 4 post)?

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

If quickjack is $1200, maxjax is $1800, Greg Smith 2 post is $1800, and a 4 post is $2400, which do you choose among these inexpensive lift options (you can spend more — $6k on a fancy 2 or 4 post)?

I have such fond memories of my Max Jax... but in the new house it doesn't fit, so I went with the QuickJack.

[tdott]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

If quickjack is $1200, maxjax is $1800, Greg Smith 2 post is $1800, and a 4 post is $2400, which do you choose among these inexpensive lift options (you can spend more — $6k on a fancy 2 or 4 post)?

All depends on how much space you have and what you want out of a lift. If you have the ceiling height and concrete thickness for the Greg Smith two post I would go with that. If you prefer storing a car vs working on cars, a 4 post is better for storage and helpful for smaller jobs.

If you don't have the ceiling height, get the maxjax or quickjack based on what you think will be best for your needs. The maxjax requires drilling, the quikjack doesn't, but the maxjax does rise higher and provides more access beneath the car.

[TheBreeze]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

If quickjack is $1200, maxjax is $1800, Greg Smith 2 post is $1800, and a 4 post is $2400, which do you choose among these inexpensive lift options (you can spend more — $6k on a fancy 2 or 4 post)?

Another consideration with the Quickjack is that it's portable. The entire system will fit in your trunk if you lower the rear seats and slide the front passenger seat forward. Granted, it's not how you might normally use a jack like this, but it's nice to have the option to take it with you or loan it out to friends.

[ICTZHP]

Originally Posted by TheBreeze

True dat. Order directly from Quickjack and use coupon code MONEY for $100 off, plus you get free shipping. I just got the 5000 EXT and use it on my entire stable of cars, including the x5. Really great tool.

That's great information on the 5000 EXT working with your X5. My line-up is an E92 M3, an F80 M3, and an E70 X5d. When I measured the lift points, it looked as though the X5 spread was too great. Which generation of X5 did you lift with the Quikjack?

Thanks!

[TheBreeze]

Originally Posted by ICTZHP

That's great information on the 5000 EXT working with your X5. My line-up is an E92 M3, an F80 M3, and an E70 X5d. When I measured the lift points, it looked as though the X5 spread was too great. Which generation of X5 did you lift with the Quikjack?

Thanks!

I have an F15, and the pad spread at the furthest point is 67". The max EXT spread is 66" per the spec, but in actuality with the lift pads in place, it's a touch over 65", so there's about an inch of overhang. I just line it up so the overhang is even front and back and it works fine. I'm going to make some custom lift pads when I get around to it so the lift pads fully cover the jack pads. It's not unstable or anything the way it is, but I'll feel better knowing it's perfect.

[ICTZHP]

Originally Posted by TheBreeze

I have an F15, and the pad spread at the furthest point is 67". The max EXT spread is 66" per the spec, but in actuality with the lift pads in place, it's a touch over 65", so there's about an inch of overhang. I just line it up so the overhang is even front and back and it works fine. I'm going to make some custom lift pads when I get around to it so the lift pads fully cover the jack pads. It's not unstable or anything the way it is, but I'll feel better knowing it's perfect.

Thanks for the follow-up. The dimensions that you state for the F15 are the same as I got on my E70. It's high time for me to quit looking at the QuickJack and just go get one!

Thanks again,
John

[Nezzynez]

hello
Compeleted the rod bearing replacement on my m3 with your diy just have on remaining question. Did u unplug injectors or fuel pu p prior to starting the car to get oil in system. I finished two days ago and I am trying to find out some more info prior to cranking for first time. My buddy is telling there is a procedure to start any help would. E great

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Nezzynez

hello
Compeleted the rod bearing replacement on my m3 with your diy just have on remaining question. Did u unplug injectors or fuel pu p prior to starting the car to get oil in system. I finished two days ago and I am trying to find out some more info prior to cranking for first time. My buddy is telling there is a procedure to start any help would. E great

When I did the job on the S65 I removed the fuel pump fuse and regretted it soon after. It's best to allow the engine to just start up instead of just cranking it for a while.

As soon as the oil pump can pump (i.e when the engine is on) it will build pressure. Until then it's best to allow the assembly lube or engine oil you used to lube do its job.

Removing the fuel pump fuse meant the engine cold cranked over and over again without starting and without building oil pressure.

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by Nezzynez

hello
Compeleted the rod bearing replacement on my m3 with your diy just have on remaining question. Did u unplug injectors or fuel pu p prior to starting the car to get oil in system. I finished two days ago and I am trying to find out some more info prior to cranking for first time. My buddy is telling there is a procedure to start any help would. E great

No, start the engine normally. As far as oiling is concerned, replacing rod bearings is almost no different than doing an oil change. It will have safe oil pressure almost instantly, it's completely unnecessary to impede starting.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

No, start the engine normally. As far as oiling is concerned, replacing rod bearings is almost no different than doing an oil change. It will have safe oil pressure almost instantly, it's completely unnecessary to impede starting.

Nezzynez, bear in mind that deansbimmer is an actual BMW mechanic, not someone who just pretends to be one like me.

I've done 7 S65s and only on the first one did I remove the fuse... what a mistake. Never again.

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Nezzynez
I've done 7 S65s and only on the first one did I remove the fuse... what a mistake. Never again.

To elaborate on the fuel pump system on these cars, it's not a simple 12v motor and fuse like other cars. These M3 and M5 have brushless motor pumps and controllers that communicate with the DME on their own CAN line. The pump runs at varied speeds to provide whatever volume is demanded by the DME.

Disconnecting the fuel pump fuse causes a mess of issues and faults with the DME.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

To elaborate on the fuel pump system on these cars, it's not a simple 12v motor and fuse like other cars. These M3 and M5 have brushless motor pumps and controllers that communicate with the DME on their own CAN line. The pump runs at varied speeds to provide whatever volume is demanded by the DME.

Disconnecting the fuel pump fuse causes a mess of issues and faults with the DME.

Aha, so possible to code to get proper oil pressure back after swop to looser rod shells..?...