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08-12-2020, 08:59 PM | #45 | |
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Drives: 2009 M3 DCT coupe white/beige
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Looks awesome!
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08-15-2020, 05:35 PM | #46 |
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When you buy a Shirmer car is there some sort of agreement in place that you don't the pull wheels off and start taking measurements, pictures, and general disassembly to see where the unicorn splooge is hiding?
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08-15-2020, 08:12 PM | #47 |
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... And if there isn't, can you pull wheels off and start taking measurements, pictures, and general disassembly to see where the unicorn splooge is hiding? 😁
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05-21-2021, 11:21 PM | #48 |
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ive been following their build as well and i think their cars have stages, this probably being their highest stage kinematics. not all cars are the same and most depends on the owner / budget but it would be safe to assume that all stages would be full monoball and as the stages go up more and more bespoke parts go in and less bolt on more chassis/cage welding and lightening Last edited by gnoy26; 05-21-2021 at 11:50 PM.. |
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05-21-2021, 11:36 PM | #49 |
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this particular car by team schirmer did a full welded cage and lightening however if u looked at the kinematics it uses most of the stock monoball parts, and all of the parts that arent monoball are replaced.
so as u can see from pictures (another 2 pics of team schirmer m2 for reference) all rubber bushes are all swapped out example: rear sway bar end link rear upper arms rear trailing arm bushes front sway bar end link *probably cuz the originals are too long conclusion, weight vs full monoball vs budget. id first replace all rubber bushes to monoball, then if some stock parts need replacement upgrade to SPL monoball arms for adjustability and weight then a full lightweight process on the chassis side. and like @72dan said nothing beats weight, it helps with wear and tear, agility, performance. everything Last edited by gnoy26; 05-21-2021 at 11:46 PM.. |
05-22-2021, 04:20 PM | #50 |
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the only thing i want off this entire thing.. is that 22gal fuel tank
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05-26-2021, 07:43 AM | #51 |
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As you can see I believe the "secret to schirmer kinematic is roll center correct front and rear.
It's the only think they focus on differently than most other tuners. Every single car they touch has geometry correction. Not just plain lowering and alignment.
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05-26-2021, 10:03 AM | #52 | |
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I personally just finished up pressing sphericals into my M3 guide rod and trailing arms. Much cheaper then upgrading to aftermarket adjustable arms just to get spherical joints. The rear feels way less "rigid" now is the only way I can explain it. It just articulates and follow the road/front steering input so much better than stiff rubber joints that load up when compressed instead of articulating freely. |
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05-26-2021, 01:13 PM | #54 | |
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http://www.mk-motorsportteile.de/epa...oducts/corre9x MK seems to make offset bearings for all bushings on the bottom. To answer your question on your front roll center, yes, tie rod ends + the thrust and control arms have extended bolts to offset it. The other option for us is the Strom Uprights that replace the entire spindle to fix the geometry. Stroms retain OE arms without much issue. Clearance on aftermarket arms with Strom has been known to be tight for certain 18" rims.
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05-26-2021, 02:19 PM | #55 | |
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It's really hard to find any kind of data on rear multi-link suspension. Needs to be 3D modeled to really see how things change in compression and roll and how moving the lower arm pickup point by 1/4" will change much if anything. |
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05-26-2021, 02:28 PM | #56 | |
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I definitely see it that if you are correcting front roll center and bumpsteer, the rear should be be considered too somehow.
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05-26-2021, 10:45 PM | #57 | |
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06-07-2021, 08:22 PM | #58 |
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It's 100% to correct roll center and bump steer. Millway in Sweden has a solution just the same as MK, and does it for around half the price.
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06-08-2021, 03:10 PM | #59 |
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Yup! Definitely isn't something new but doesn't seem like anyone stateside is running it.
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08-24-2021, 11:44 PM | #60 |
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I have invested a bit of time and effort to create this for myself. Rear axle roll center correction and bump steer like schirmer cars. This is 16mm of roll center correction. This is the kinetics schirmer speaks of. I took inspiration of what is current available, but create my own design, CAD and measurements.
It can be done and replicated. I'll be testing it out soon.
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///M3... Don't want more power, Just want it to turn sharper one step closer each time. -Ohlins TTX Raceline, PolePostions seats, Akrapovic EVO, ARC-8, 1/2 Cage, Seat Delete, Stoptech BBK, solid Subframe and diff bushing, spherical bearing on everything.
Last edited by tlrid3r; 11-29-2022 at 04:27 PM.. |
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08-25-2021, 07:18 AM | #61 |
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so with these kits, the goal is to have the arm mounted in a way to have it flatter at ride height, so in compression, it doesn't "straighten" out and push the spindle outward, scrubbing the tires? is that a decent understanding of the benefit?
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08-25-2021, 08:04 AM | #62 | |
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The car will have a more compliant ride handling and increased mechanical grip because its like having a stiffer spring with out the draw back of a stiffer spring. Here is a simple video explaining it. Those where the calculations I had to understand.
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///M3... Don't want more power, Just want it to turn sharper one step closer each time. -Ohlins TTX Raceline, PolePostions seats, Akrapovic EVO, ARC-8, 1/2 Cage, Seat Delete, Stoptech BBK, solid Subframe and diff bushing, spherical bearing on everything.
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08-25-2021, 09:50 AM | #63 |
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I have the strom Motorsport front upright and with the mechanical grip up front greatly increased. Prior to the uprights,the car went from a neutral to oversteer. I run 295 square. But I was going through a lot of tire. Because roll center in the front was off. With the uprights roll center was corrected. Thus the improvements on grip. I was impressed so I wanted to try the same with the rear. If I can go back to neutral feeling and increased grip also improved tire wear. I'm happy. I ran 1:39 at laguna. If I can manage to beat 1:39 I think it's a success.
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///M3... Don't want more power, Just want it to turn sharper one step closer each time. -Ohlins TTX Raceline, PolePostions seats, Akrapovic EVO, ARC-8, 1/2 Cage, Seat Delete, Stoptech BBK, solid Subframe and diff bushing, spherical bearing on everything.
Last edited by tlrid3r; 08-27-2021 at 10:45 PM.. |
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08-25-2021, 09:52 AM | #64 |
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cool. the fall line rear lca's have camber shims, but that doesn't take care of the subframe side. is there any advantage to running both?
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08-25-2021, 12:05 PM | #66 |
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Im not a expert, just an engineer with an interest and looking for a solution to our platform. It's not just about being lowered or not. It's that lowering exacerbates this negative affect exponentially. Because it all adds up. Loading into a corner, riding the berms all impact roll center when you most demand it.
High spring rates can help but the car may be great a one track and not the other. Because proper suspension articulation is what provide mechanical grip. But the word articulation is not use to say that more movement is better. Simply put, if your car is lowered and your roll center is in the proper place. The moment arm with have a less leverage on moving the chassis, your 600lbs spring may be sufficient where your would need 1000lbs spring with improper roll center. Than to add on top of that. Camber loss, bump steering due too improper motion. Roll Center correction should fix all that. My design and from what I can see from the limitation of the rear subframe (with-out major modifications of cutting into the subframe) all other providers of roll center correction kit can only correct a max of a 25mm drop from factory height.
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///M3... Don't want more power, Just want it to turn sharper one step closer each time. -Ohlins TTX Raceline, PolePostions seats, Akrapovic EVO, ARC-8, 1/2 Cage, Seat Delete, Stoptech BBK, solid Subframe and diff bushing, spherical bearing on everything.
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