BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
European Auto Source (EAS)
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-24-2009, 04:01 AM   #155
Andrew 912
//M addicted
United_States
6
Rep
128
Posts

Drives: AW M3 E92 - MR X6M
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Massachussetts

iTrader: (0)

Short exit tips facing to the rear would not only be good for the looks but also very important to prevent the water splash from rear tires and underneath the car especially on the puddles.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2009, 08:50 AM   #156
Locksmythe
First Lieutenant
Locksmythe's Avatar
United_States
47
Rep
378
Posts

Drives: 2009 e92 M3 AW/FR
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew 912 View Post
Short exit tips facing to the rear would not only be good for the looks but also very important to prevent the water splash from rear tires and underneath the car especially on the puddles.
I had been wondering why you were not concerned about exhaust coming out under the car and seeping in. Is it just that you will only have them open in motion? No risk of leaks while idle? Does exhaust not actually pass through the valve? (can't imagine why not)
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2009, 09:43 AM   #157
Subw00er
Bates '08 Interlagos Launch
Subw00er's Avatar
United_States
124
Rep
1,230
Posts

Drives: 440i xGC, ZL1, JCW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: NY

iTrader: (2)

Directly above the valve is heat shielding, and it is pretty far to the rear. I figured that if people use cutouts directly under the middle of the car, I should be fine where it is. Water isn't something I thought too much about.. the valves are angles backwards, so whatever little water might get in there would just evaporate or get blown out. Remember that the pipes take a pretty steep angle upwards inside the exhaust too, so I think water would have a hard time getting up there. I also wanted to keep it as high off the ground as possible (for backing into parking spot curbs for example).

I think we may put little tips on there at some point. For now I think it looks great with the valves exposed. I actually like the look; reminds me of the transformers or something. I'll try and get better pics later. The only thing that bugs me a little is the exhaust goo dripping down the bottom of the valve, so that might prompt me to put a little tip there so it stays a little cleaner.

I wish you guys could hear this in person..
__________________
Custom Exhaust Project: Bates Valvetronic exhaust: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253661 -- Exhaust Mod pics in here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/40236795@N03/
DON'T BUY Race Ready Performance electronic cutout valves. Here's why: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...40#post9589740

Last edited by Subw00er; 07-24-2009 at 11:11 PM..
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2009, 02:52 PM   #158
SS32
Major
SS32's Avatar
156
Rep
1,430
Posts

Drives: 2008 M3
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC

iTrader: (0)

Wow. Sounds great!! I can't wait to hear some more videos. My cutouts are supposed to be delivered today. I can't wait to have them installed.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2009, 08:22 PM   #159
jml
Major
jml's Avatar
128
Rep
1,144
Posts

Drives: X5M, GT3RS, GT4
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (3)

Awesome.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2009, 08:27 PM   #160
Subw00er
Bates '08 Interlagos Launch
Subw00er's Avatar
United_States
124
Rep
1,230
Posts

Drives: 440i xGC, ZL1, JCW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: NY

iTrader: (2)

Went out to take video today.. get all set up. Forgot the camera battery! GRR
__________________
Custom Exhaust Project: Bates Valvetronic exhaust: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253661 -- Exhaust Mod pics in here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/40236795@N03/
DON'T BUY Race Ready Performance electronic cutout valves. Here's why: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...40#post9589740
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2009, 08:48 PM   #161
Andrew 912
//M addicted
United_States
6
Rep
128
Posts

Drives: AW M3 E92 - MR X6M
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Massachussetts

iTrader: (0)

Grrrrrr!!!!!!! Let's hear the real sound!!!!!!
Appreciate 0
      07-25-2009, 12:29 AM   #162
gemini330zhp
Major
gemini330zhp's Avatar
Philippines
34
Rep
1,181
Posts

Drives: 2008 M3 E90
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: BergenCo NewJersey

iTrader: (0)

Videos?
__________________
2008 Jet Black E90 M3 6SPD no sunroof and 18s to my specs


Appreciate 0
      07-25-2009, 12:37 PM   #163
jishaq
Registered
0
Rep
1
Posts

Drives: Not a BMW :)
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subw00er View Post
... there is a nice slight burble/throatiness to the sound when just cruising ...
You miss that Z06, don't you?

I can't wait to hear it!

-J

Last edited by jishaq; 07-25-2009 at 07:01 PM.. Reason: Omit unnecessary details
Appreciate 0
      07-25-2009, 07:21 PM   #164
Subw00er
Bates '08 Interlagos Launch
Subw00er's Avatar
United_States
124
Rep
1,230
Posts

Drives: 440i xGC, ZL1, JCW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: NY

iTrader: (2)

I'm editing the videos now. In the meantime, here are the final installed pics. Stay tuned!

My deepest apologies to all the garage queens out there. My car is filthy!











These are the pics that make me think it looks a bit like a Transformer. I suppose the fact that there are moving parts back there doesn't hurt.




Videos are building now.. They'll be up tonight.
__________________
Custom Exhaust Project: Bates Valvetronic exhaust: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253661 -- Exhaust Mod pics in here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/40236795@N03/
DON'T BUY Race Ready Performance electronic cutout valves. Here's why: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...40#post9589740

Last edited by Subw00er; 11-13-2010 at 11:54 AM..
Appreciate 0
      07-25-2009, 08:54 PM   #165
gemini330zhp
Major
gemini330zhp's Avatar
Philippines
34
Rep
1,181
Posts

Drives: 2008 M3 E90
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: BergenCo NewJersey

iTrader: (0)

__________________
2008 Jet Black E90 M3 6SPD no sunroof and 18s to my specs


Appreciate 0
      07-25-2009, 11:38 PM   #166
STIto335
Private First Class
United_States
8
Rep
199
Posts

Drives: a car
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subw00er View Post
Videos are building now.. They'll be up tonight.

my night is over on the east coast damn guess ill check again in the am
Appreciate 0
      07-26-2009, 12:15 AM   #167
Subw00er
Bates '08 Interlagos Launch
Subw00er's Avatar
United_States
124
Rep
1,230
Posts

Drives: 440i xGC, ZL1, JCW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: NY

iTrader: (2)

The videos will be up tomorrow. 1.5gigs is taking forever to upload to YouTube!
__________________
Custom Exhaust Project: Bates Valvetronic exhaust: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253661 -- Exhaust Mod pics in here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/40236795@N03/
DON'T BUY Race Ready Performance electronic cutout valves. Here's why: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...40#post9589740

Last edited by Subw00er; 07-26-2009 at 11:38 AM..
Appreciate 0
      07-26-2009, 09:50 AM   #168
gemini330zhp
Major
gemini330zhp's Avatar
Philippines
34
Rep
1,181
Posts

Drives: 2008 M3 E90
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: BergenCo NewJersey

iTrader: (0)

Congrats on the final product sounds great!!!!
__________________
2008 Jet Black E90 M3 6SPD no sunroof and 18s to my specs


Appreciate 0
      07-26-2009, 10:35 AM   #169
sgar0777
Private
sgar0777's Avatar
United_States
10
Rep
75
Posts

Drives: 2009 E92 M3 AW/BLK 6MT
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Alpharetta, Ga.

iTrader: (0)

Attn: Vendors

Congratulations on putting together one of the most comprehensive, detail oriented build and tests I have ever seen. I have been hanging on every post waiting for the conclusion. I hope as it evolves we will see some dyno numbers for reference.

The DB meter is a nice touch- I don't know why we don't see more of these kind of videos.

Exhaust vendors take note- This is how you introduce a new product. While I appreciate the artsy-fartsy pictures we get, I think that most of us would agree that quality videos comparing your product to stock and quantifiable data like DB ratings vs. stock are much more compelling.

I loved this build!!
Appreciate 0
      07-26-2009, 10:42 AM   #170
Subw00er
Bates '08 Interlagos Launch
Subw00er's Avatar
United_States
124
Rep
1,230
Posts

Drives: 440i xGC, ZL1, JCW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: NY

iTrader: (2)

The videos are all in HD 1080P with 256KB audio (although I'm not sure what happens to them once hitting YouTube). I am still not totally happy with the rendition. The videos all sound sort of flat, and I still have a lot of trouble capturing the right sound for the interior shots. The exterior is much closer top real than the the interior shots. Oh well.. Maybe I'll try my other mic one day if I get bored.

Here is HD video one of three: Blipping and steady throttle whilst stationary & SPL meter. TURN UP THE SOUND!
http://www.youtube.com/v/NamH3a5ko50&hl=en&fs=1&

Here is the second of three HD videos! TURN UP THE SOUND! FlyBys:
http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/FF...l=en&fs=1&hd=1

Here is the last video for now of in-car cruising footage. This is the video I'm not super happy about. Its just not accurate to real life. I tried a few things with the mic placement and settings but it just doesn't pick up the essence of the exhaust. The interesting thing about this Bates Exhaust is how different it sounds inside the car vs outside. Inside the car it sounds very European, reserved, controlled, and like nothing I've heard. My friend commented it sounded a bit like a Carrera GT in the way that it sounds different. I drove around for a few days thinking that this is what everyone else was hearing. Its not till I heard it on the drive-bys that I realized the massive difference. Occasionally I would get a hint of something else brewing back there if I drove closely by a building. Outside the car, it sounds a lot like a raspy, fire-breathing and "get the hell out of my way" loud V8 muscle race car. It reminds me a little of my C5z06 (which is a good thing!).
http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/Fw...l=en&fs=1&hd=1

Its pretty scary to invest so much time and money into a project without knowing what it will be like in the end. This time, my expectations were far exceeded. I'm super happy with how it turned out:
  • It doesn't drone open or close, so the Helmholtz chamber is still working
  • There is no change from stock sound when the valves are closed
  • When the valves are open it creates a monster; loud, refined with a very unique and interesting sound. Blipping and heel-toe has become intoxicating
  • Exhaust noise level is now matchable to the intake noise. I love intake noise, but it always sort of bugged me that the intake was so much louder than the exhaust.
  • Stock appearance is pretty close - most laymen wouldn't know they aren't looking at a normal M3 exhaust

As far as power goes, I am not sure yet. A dyno will cost me $150 and I want to get some miles on the car before going, maybe next week. Butt dyno tells me that it feels about the same, and this could be placebo, but maybe its slightly faster with the valves open. Anyway, I wasn't going for HP increases with this project, but it certainly doesn't feel like I've lost power, i.e. under 3KRPMs. I think I've retained enough back pressure so that doesn't happen. BTW, it seems to rev up a lot freer (sp?!) with the valves open.

I'd like to give a big thanks to Sam for all of his hard work, time, engineering, and of course, his art (remember: Samuelegallery.com.)

Let me know if you guys have any questions/requests. Thanks for watching and the kind comments so far. This has been a really fun thread to maintain.

Last edited by Subw00er; 07-29-2011 at 08:25 PM..
Appreciate 0
      07-26-2009, 12:40 PM   #171
JCtx
Major General
256
Rep
5,012
Posts

Drives: No BMW yet
Join Date: May 2008
Location: El Paso TX

iTrader: (0)

You blew the ultra-expensive Kriesseg (or whatever it spells ) exhaust out of the water man; it sounds like crap with the valves closed, and yours sounds better with them open IMO. Plus your valve integration is the best possible one. Congratulations . Now you have a truly unique exhaust... and the best 'valve-tronic' one .

I have to say the system sounds incredible with the valves closed; didn't know a stock M3 sounds that nice, or does your car sound different than stock??? Wish you had done one flyby with the valves closed. You should also have put 'Bates Exhaust' on your plate, no?

Last edited by JCtx; 07-26-2009 at 01:11 PM..
Appreciate 0
      07-26-2009, 12:49 PM   #172
askiles
Major
askiles's Avatar
56
Rep
1,164
Posts

Drives: 2008 M3 Sedan - Alpine White
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ

iTrader: (2)

It would be cool to do some sort of vacuum actuated system like the C6 Corvette has, where the calves open more at higher RPM's when more vacuum is introduced.

I think you did an amazing job, and I applaud you hard work and dedication to this project. If you were to do this work for people @ $2k a pop if they provide their exhaust, I am sure people will be jumping on it. It really does put the few other valved exhaust to shame!

-Andy
__________________
2008 M3 Sedan- Alpine White
Appreciate 0
      07-26-2009, 12:53 PM   #173
J08M3
Major General
J08M3's Avatar
United_States
285
Rep
6,007
Posts

Drives: 2011 M3 COUPE
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NEW YORK

iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
You blew the ultra-expensive Kriesseg (or whatever it spells ) exhaust out of the water man
+100 This sounds so much better. I don't even like the sound of the Kriesseg. This sounds great though. Plus it's so much cooler the way you custom built it out of the OEM muffler. By far one of the best projects posted on this forum. I would love to check this car out in real life sometime.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      07-26-2009, 01:17 PM   #174
JCtx
Major General
256
Rep
5,012
Posts

Drives: No BMW yet
Join Date: May 2008
Location: El Paso TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by askiles View Post
It would be cool to do some sort of vacuum actuated system like the C6 Corvette has, where the calves open more at higher RPM's when more vacuum is introduced.
Actually the ECU sends the signal to open them at 3,500 rpm. Yes, the valves are vacuum-operated, but when the actuator gets the signal from the ECU. Many owners wire the valves directly so they can open them at will (like this system), but it'd be nice to have both options indeed. Take care.
Appreciate 0
      07-26-2009, 01:34 PM   #175
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
609
Rep
10,407
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for all the documentation. We're all glad it was actually fun to document. Sounds good but indeed recordings of exhausts never really do them justice. I'm a bit confused about how you qualitatively compare the sounds to both a Vette and to a CGT/European exotic. IMO these characteristics couldn't be more different.

I think the valves turned out to be way to visible/visibly obtrusive in this design. It sounds good for you though as you like the look. This is one area where the other bypass project posted here in the forum has yours beat - looks. Of course that is all completely subjective.

Congrats!
__________________
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK |
| Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors |
| Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels |
| XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit |
Appreciate 0
      07-26-2009, 01:44 PM   #176
JCtx
Major General
256
Rep
5,012
Posts

Drives: No BMW yet
Join Date: May 2008
Location: El Paso TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I think the valves turned out to be way to visible/visibly obtrusive in this design.
That's an excellent (and valid) point, and he was fully aware of it. I wouldn't do it if a diffuser (or something else) can't hide them, but the other reality is I haven't seen a perfect system yet, so you always have to compromise with something. By the way, adding tips would only make them more of an eyesore IMO.

Yes, it's one thing to do it yourself for a few hundred bucks (plus your time), but entirely another having to pay over 2 grand for it; that definitely brings higher expectations. For what he paid, it was an absolute success IMO. Selling it to make a profit might prove daunting; we'll see, I guess. Take care.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:10 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST