New daily driver???

[pbonsalb]

I don’t like sitting in traffic for long periods in any car.

[xander_g]

What you need is a ek/g honda civic hatchback with a k20 swap+turbo

[WAKman]

Interesting thread. Many years ago, when I was young, I shared the OPs opinion on "saving" my special car from DD duties, and bought a second car to commute in. Now that I'm a bit older (pushing elderly), I consider every moment--almost--behind the wheel in one of my cars precious, and happily use my 2008 M3 DCT as my DD. Even though I don't have a daily commute in traffic, it still sees a lot of use (16K miles the first year), and the wear and tear do indeed pile up as the miles accumulate. But the car is supremely fun when asked to be, comfortable when necessary, and I'm always happy to be in it.

Who knows what these cars will be worth in ten or twenty years? I would think that as the last of the naturally aspirated M cars, and V8s at that, they will be worth a lot. But I do have an unblemished record of guessing wrong on such things! And, just on the off chance that I'm not around in ten or twenty years, I'll sure be glad to have driven it.

[tooloud10]

I guess I don't understand why sitting in traffic in an M3 would be any different than sitting in traffic in any other 3-series. Why would I want to sit in traffic in an economy car?

[Obioban]

e46 330i ZHP.

4 doors, so you don't have your coupe issue. Not as harsh as the e46 m3 you said was beating you up too much. Tons of fun to drive when the road opens up, but quite comfortable when it doesn't. Full size spare tire and a dipstick, so you're not hampered by the stupidity of modern cars. Very reasonable fuel economy.

[94jedi]

Originally Posted by Obioban

e46 330i ZHP.

4 doors, so you don't have your coupe issue. Not as harsh as the e46 m3 you said was beating you up too much. Tons of fun to drive when the road opens up, but quite comfortable when it doesn't. Full size spare tire and a dipstick, so you're not hampered by the stupidity of modern cars. Very reasonable fuel economy.

zhp is a thought...i had one and loved it.

[pbonsalb]

The only thing that bothers me in long bumper to bumper traffic is the clutch. If I drove a lot in traffic, I’d get a DCT. My next car will be auto/DCT/PDK, not because of traffic but because they are faster in a straight line, faster around a track and get better mpg.

[Darth One]

The E39 M5 is usually in the argument about what's the greatest M car ever built. The E60 is something people love or hate (I'm more the latter) but the best description I think both camps can live with is, it's a magnificent engine in a somewhat unfortunate car.

So the E39 is my choice but its value is fast surpassing the E9x, which makes it silly to think of as a "beater". But if you truly are just looking for an excuse to get an M5, this is the one. I personally think it's better (not faster!) than E60, F10, even F90.

If you're really looking for a commuter, though, get a cheap car that's fun, but you aren't thinking of as a collectible or a "forever" car. No old M car will match that description.

[spazzyfry123]

Originally Posted by 94jedi

zhp is a thought...i had one and loved it.

ZHP cars are great, but I find it difficult to justify the price a clean one demands, unfortunately.

There's one with an LS3 and T-56 on Bring a Trailer right now!!

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Darth One

The E39 M5 is usually in the argument about what's the greatest M car ever built. The E60 is something people love or hate (I'm more the latter) but the best description I think both camps can live with is, it's a magnificent engine in a somewhat unfortunate car.

So the E39 is my choice but its value is fast surpassing the E9x, which makes it silly to think of as a "beater". But if you truly are just looking for an excuse to get an M5, this is the one. I personally think it's better (not faster!) than E60, F10, even F90.

If you're really looking for a commuter, though, get a cheap car that's fun, but you aren't thinking of as a collectible or a "forever" car. No old M car will match that description.

On the positive sides of the e39 M5 as a daily (we use our M5 as my wife's daily), it's easily the most reliable M5 (thanks to the unstressed engine, only manual trans, and independent electronic systems), rides quite competently (with the tradeoff of handling worse than the e28, e34, and e60), and has the most back seat leg room space. Being an afterthought (BMW didn't originally intend to make an M5 in the e39 generation), it also the least bespoke-- which means cheap part prices (less parts are M specific).

The e39, IMO, is the least "M" of all the NA M5s. This generally is good for it as a daily/cruiser, less good for it as a sports car.

180,000 miles on ours and counting. My wife's summer DD and my winter non snow day driver

[Darth One]

I really can't argue with any of that. If you don't care about "collectibility" (is that a word), why not drive one of the greatest cars ever, all the time?

I would prefer the red car, though

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Darth One

I really can't argue with any of that. If you don't care about "collectibility" (is that a word), why not drive one of the greatest cars ever, all the time?

I would prefer the red car, though

Me, too-- that's why the M5 is my wife's daily. The M5 is too large and heavy for me to really enjoy.

That said, e39 530i is also a kickass daily! 550 lbs lighter than the M5 (400 lbs lighter than the 540i) and a R&P HPS steering race for proper steering feel (V8 e39s have reticulating ball, which isn't the best... if still light years better than modern cars). Outside of acceleration, in many ways the 530i driving experience is sportier than the 540i or M5. Plus better fuel economy, smooooooth I6 dynamics, and lower service costs.

[flamelauncher14]

I had a V10 M6 and a CPO F10 550i at one point in time and daily drove the M6 just because that V10 was absolutely amazing. My commute to work took place at 5am about 10 miles down the freeway. No traffic, nice breeze, windows down and radio off to hear the V10. It woke me up and got me pumped for work.

I bought my CPO F10 550i from the original owner, who provided me with a literal binder full of warranty repairs for it. I didn't worry about it since it was a CPO car with only 40,000 miles. Well, I owned it for two months before the engine threw a rod a month before the warranty ended. A brand new engine, two turbos and a very pissed off service manager later I traded it in for the same price I paid for it and bought my GTR. I've kept in touch with the new owner of the F10; he and his wife have daily driven it over the last year out of warranty and haven't had a single issue.

Just thought I'd share my little story on both cars. I, too, had the E46 M3 and daily drove it for two years. I agree they're a bit uncomfortable but, as many are, mine was bulletproof even with 140,000 miles!

[wyatth]

I like the E39 more but for a DD in your situation, maybe an E60 is better. That said, it’s not a great choice for the job either. I’d get a GTI or something.

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

There are a lot of cars with more soul than the Prius, so you have many choices. How about a Hyundai Accent? You can get one with a 6 speed and it will leave the Prius in the dust. And you can preserve your nice car, the E90M3, for its next owner.

Seriously, though, I would not buy an E60M5 or E39M5 thinking it would be a more economical daily driver than the E90M3. Given their ages and issues and fuel economy, likely just the opposite. I also don’t think or that the E90M3 is any more worthy of preservation than those cars.

I’d like to get a 991.1TT for a beater. Rack up the miles. Put snows on it in the winter. Get the PDK to make it faster and easier to drive in traffic.

This, all of this. Your slightly irrational sentimental connection to the E90 is not only not allowing you to enjoy it, but it's also making you come up with even more irrational decisions.

Buuttttttt if you have to, just make sure you post the e90 for sale up on here bc it's losing more money over time than in mileage...so if you're looking to avoid depreciation then you just need to sell unless you're going to keep it for 10+ years.

Buuutttttt if you keep it that long the cost to upkeep, insure, and house the beast considering the time value of money will far outweigh any advantages you thought you were "saving."

If you're saving it bc you're in love with it that's fine, but don't do what you're doing under the guise of money bc that's not correct...

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by Obioban

On the positive sides of the e39 M5 as a daily (we use our M5 as my wife's daily), it's easily the most reliable M5 (thanks to the unstressed engine, only manual trans, and independent electronic systems), rides quite competently (with the tradeoff of handling worse than the e28, e34, and e60), and has the most back seat leg room space. Being an afterthought (BMW didn't originally intend to make an M5 in the e39 generation), it also the least bespoke-- which means cheap part prices (less parts are M specific).

The e39, IMO, is the least "M" of all the NA M5s. This generally is good for it as a daily/cruiser, less good for it as a sports car.

180,000 miles on ours and counting. My wife's summer DD and my winter non snow day driver

Always appreciate your rational point of view.

I'm looking at an E39 M5 this weekend - sort of a dumpster fire, but I'd like a project. Any way to sharpen the handling and not totally ruin the ride?

I'm thinking about Koni yellows and Dinan springs. I looked at your build but so many pages and I didn't see if you put shocks/struts on there...

If all goes well I intend to address the mechanical issues, handling and body in that order and maybe never the body ha!

Cheers, and loving the wagon you picked up from Kaiv!

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by tlow98

This, all of this. Your slightly irrational sentimental connection to the E90 is not only not allowing you to enjoy it, but it's also making you come up with even more irrational decisions.

Buuttttttt if you have to, just make sure you post the e90 for sale up on here bc it's losing more money over time than in mileage...so if you're looking to avoid depreciation then you just need to sell unless you're going to keep it for 10+ years.

Buuutttttt if you keep it that long the cost to upkeep, insure, and house the beast considering the time value of money will far outweigh any advantages you thought you were "saving."

If you're saving it bc you're in love with it that's fine, but don't do what you're doing under the guise of money bc that's not correct...

Some would say high performance cars or expensive cars are irrational, but that depends on the rationale. My interest is in driving the cars. I don’t care about depreciation or preserving value (though I do care about reliability since I maintain the cars in my free time). I have had the E90M3 for 8 of its 10 years and 63k of its 93k miles. I would have driven it more but I like driving my turbo 99M3 (that I have owned for 13 of its 19 years and 90k of its 134k miles) enough that it has shared the driving miles. I wish I could drive more. I would not buy the Porsche to take the other cars off the road, though I might drive it more because of the effortless PDK and the AWD that helps put big power down. I am inclined to keep the M3s as long as I continue to enjoy them. The only car I may try to preserve is the E36M3 as it nears actual antique status in a few more years. I could also see the E90M3 becoming a track car since its power is very predictable. Or I could see myself supercharging it if I can’t afford the used 991TT for a couple of years.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by tlow98

Always appreciate your rational point of view.

I'm looking at an E39 M5 this weekend - sort of a dumpster fire, but I'd like a project. Any way to sharpen the handling and not totally ruin the ride?

I'm thinking about Koni yellows and Dinan springs. I looked at your build but so many pages and I didn't see if you put shocks/struts on there...

If all goes well I intend to address the mechanical issues, handling and body in that order and maybe never the body ha!

Cheers, and loving the wagon you picked up from Kaiv!

I'd start out by working on your mindset. The e39 M5 is not an M3. It's a nearly 4000 lb sedan that's far more focused on comfort and sound isolation than the M3 is. If you go in expecting a larger M3, you a setting yourself up for disappointment.
(side note: the e60 M5 is much more "larger M3", if that's what you're looking for from an M5)

From there, your best mods are going to be getting it back to driving like new, as certainly many things on most cars are worn out at this point. Bushings/bearings/ball joints with new OE/OEM (Lemforder) will make a worn out car drive WAY better, without an NHV or comfort tradeoffs. I have replaced every bushings/bearing/ball joint/mount on my car at this point with new OE/OEM.

In terms of mods, which should be AFTER the above, my favorite driving mod has been the german auto solutions monoball thrust arm bearing conversion kit-- which lets you run the e9X M3 thrust arm bearings in place of the e39s stock fluid filled bushings (which have a service life of ~10,000 miles before getting worn out). This dramatically improved steering feel and general competence, increases service life to ~100,000 miles, and comes with minimal NHV penalty (so long as you stick with the stock front hats). You can buy them prepressed into lemforder front control arms, if you're doing a front end freshening either way.

I'm running Koni yellows on Dinan settings, with stock springs. It's pretty great, for what I expect an M5 to be (re: not an M3). Dinan springs would make it a bit tighter, but I enjoy the ability to load it full of stuff and retain full competence. For that matter, I enjoy the ground clearance, after dealing with a lowered car every other day.

If you get it driving nicely, you're going to want to fix the body. It's one of BMW's best looking cars ever, IMO...

The wagon is freaking great.

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Some would say high performance cars or expensive cars are irrational, but that depends on the rationale. My interest is in driving the cars. I don’t care about depreciation or preserving value (though I do care about reliability since I maintain the cars in my free time). I have had the E90M3 for 8 of its 10 years and 63k of its 93k miles. I would have driven it more but I like driving my turbo 99M3 (that I have owned for 13 of its 19 years and 90k of its 134k miles) enough that it has shared the driving miles. I wish I could drive more. I would not buy the Porsche to take the other cars off the road, though I might drive it more because of the effortless PDK and the AWD that helps put big power down. I am inclined to keep the M3s as long as I continue to enjoy them. The only car I may try to preserve is the E36M3 as it nears actual antique status in a few more years. I could also see the E90M3 becoming a track car since its power is very predictable. Or I could see myself supercharging it if I can’t afford the used 991TT for a couple of years.

I completely agree with you! My comments were meant to address the OP - sorry for the confusion.

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by Obioban

I'd start out by working on your mindset. The e39 M5 is not an M3. It's a nearly 4000 lb sedan that's far more focused on comfort and sound isolation than the M3 is. If you go in expecting a larger M3, you a setting yourself up for disappointment.
(side note: the e60 M5 is much more "larger M3", if that's what you're looking for from an M5)

From there, your best mods are going to be getting it back to driving like new, as certainly many things on most cars are worn out at this point. Bushings/bearings/ball joints with new OE/OEM (Lemforder) will make a worn out car drive WAY better, without an NHV or comfort tradeoffs. I have replaced every bushings/bearing/ball joint/mount on my car at this point with new OE/OEM.

In terms of mods, which should be AFTER the above, my favorite driving mod has been the german auto solutions monoball thrust arm bearing conversion kit-- which lets you run the e9X M3 thrust arm bearings in place of the e39s stock fluid filled bushings (which have a service life of ~10,000 miles before getting worn out). This dramatically improved steering feel and general competence, increases service life to ~100,000 miles, and comes with minimal NHV penalty (so long as you stick with the stock front hats). You can buy them prepressed into lemforder front control arms, if you're doing a front end freshening either way.

I'm running Koni yellows on Dinan settings, with stock springs. It's pretty great, for what I expect an M5 to be (re: not an M3). Dinan springs would make it a bit tighter, but I enjoy the ability to load it full of stuff and retain full competence. For that matter, I enjoy the ground clearance, after dealing with a lowered car every other day.

If you get it driving nicely, you're going to want to fix the body. It's one of BMW's best looking cars ever, IMO...

The wagon is freaking great.

Hmmm, now maybe I need to rethink the M5. I already have an E91, which doesn't in anyway solve my need for "fun". It could, but it's serving its purpose pulling serious family duty for the wife.

My purpose for the M5 ticks 3 boxes - High School dream car, Hooligan, and project (bcuz E90 never breaks - boring). I think the Hooligan part is suspect at this point. Appreciate the pointers on the control arms and general suspension advice.

Maybe if I can get it for like $4k, it'll be worth it as then I just won't need to care as much. But it still won't be a sharp tool, hmmmm. Many thoughts need to be flushed out.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by tlow98

Hmmm, now maybe I need to rethink the M5. I already have an E91, which doesn't in anyway solve my need for "fun". It could, but it's serving its purpose pulling serious family duty for the wife.

My purpose for the M5 ticks 3 boxes - High School dream car, Hooligan, and project (bcuz E90 never breaks - boring). I think the Hooligan part is suspect at this point. Appreciate the pointers on the control arms and general suspension advice.

Maybe if I can get it for like $4k, it'll be worth it as then I just won't need to care as much. But it still won't be a sharp tool, hmmmm. Many thoughts need to be flushed out.

I actually find my M5 to be more of a Hooligan than my e46 m3, despite weighing nearly 1000 lbs more and having less HP. The torque and general softness make it kind of a muscle car. Driving the M5 hard is a game of keeping it under reins, whereas the M3 is just endless competence.

But not a sharp tool, no.

[tooloud10]

I'm confused...are you looking for a reliable DD or a 20-year-old project car?