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      08-06-2018, 12:41 PM   #1
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Every once in a while an American car excites me

Hey BMW fans. Every once in a while, usually after an expensive service, I toy with the idea of an American muscle car. Im always torn between a corvette or a mustang, usually leaning towards the Chevy. But this week a special Mustang was released that gets to me. Its the Steve McQueen legend, the Bullitt.

Check out a good review on wired:
https://www.wired.com/story/2019-for...tt-test-drive/

What do you think? Could it replace my supercharged M3?
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      08-06-2018, 01:05 PM   #2
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American cars have come a long way..

I drove a Shelby GT350 - it was riotously good. Massive amounts of top end power, the sound is next level. The flat plane V8 howls menacingly, muscly and exotic at the same time. Brake pedal feel was excellent, masses of grip (295 fronts, 305 rears!), nice notchy gearbox. Seating position was crap, and the interior was a step down from the e9x. Chassis felt well dampened and cornered very flat. Steering wasn't the best in terms of feel and weight but it was very precise. It felt particularly lifeless run back to back with the e9x but that's the same with a lot of modern cars.

The Bullit looks like a special edition GT, which is a cool car but I wouldn't get out of an e9x for one. GT350 is a different story..
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      08-06-2018, 01:47 PM   #3
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Eh... This is just a reiteration of what they had done back in the early 2000s. It's nothing really special other than a fancy GT.

I know Matt Farah recently took one around. I'd wait to see what he has to say about it.
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      08-06-2018, 02:09 PM   #4
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No GT would replace your SC E9x.
If I were to get American, I would cross shop between the GT350 and the Camaro ZL1 1LE. Probably take the latter.
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      08-07-2018, 11:40 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzyfry123 View Post
Eh... This is just a reiteration of what they had done back in the early 2000s. It's nothing really special other than a fancy GT.

I know Matt Farah recently took one around. I'd wait to see what he has to say about it.
The Bullitt has an extra 20hp as it gets the GT350 intake manifold.
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      08-07-2018, 04:44 PM   #6
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the bullitt is cool, but I'd just save a few grand and get a regular 5.0 if you're going to modify it - especially now that they offer that performance pack 2 option with mag ride and sport cup 2
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      08-07-2018, 10:30 PM   #7
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In a recent article I read about it, they even state the Bullit suspension is lightyears behind the GT350. As others in this thread have said, the GT350 is much more of a comparison to the E9x M3... but IMO it's not a comparison to a SC'd E9x.
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      08-08-2018, 07:25 AM   #8
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Depends if you like spectators and crowds
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      08-08-2018, 11:50 AM   #9
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Plenty of american cars get to me, like the Vette GS, ZL1 1LE, GT350, etc. Above all of them, the Viper ACR

But I usually will end up reading nightmare stories about them before long (https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1495982)

TL;DR (because I could go on and on about it)
American cars seem obsessed with Excel sheet stats and pay little attention to being 'good cars', which is not so easy to quantify but easy to distinguish

Case in point: the C8 Vette becoming mid engined. Why oh why?
Here are the issues with the Vette which need fixin':
-Build quality
-Tricky handling at 10/10s. Likely due to using a torsion bar instead of a spring
-Overheating in a single lap. Many think it's limited to only the Z06 but some investigation shows it's most of them
-An auto tranny that isn't a steaming pile of shit
-A 7sp manual tranny with well defined gates. If you are unable to do this, go back to a 6sp

Now they will divert resources building a stupid mid engined car instead of the vital other items that actually matter.

It is epically frustrating

Last edited by SYT_Shadow; 08-08-2018 at 12:58 PM..
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      08-10-2018, 06:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mvy View Post
Hey BMW fans. Every once in a while, usually after an expensive service, I toy with the idea of an American muscle car. Im always torn between a corvette or a mustang, usually leaning towards the Chevy. But this week a special Mustang was released that gets to me. Its the Steve McQueen legend, the Bullitt.

Check out a good review on wired:
https://www.wired.com/story/2019-for...tt-test-drive/

What do you think? Could it replace my supercharged M3?


I had a 2013 e92 zcp owned it for about a year and a half... traded it for a 2018 corvette 6 months ago. Still dont miss the m3.
Most you guys are hardcore though and i get it, They are great but i was just ready for a change and had been wanting a C7 for quite awhile.
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      08-12-2018, 02:15 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3dliner View Post
No GT would replace your SC E9x.
If I were to get American, I would cross shop between the GT350 and the Camaro ZL1 1LE. Probably take the latter.
Just get an SS 1LE, it's still plenty of car -- use the savings for tires, brakes, and track days.
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      08-12-2018, 02:21 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Case in point: the C8 Vette becoming mid engined. Why oh why?
Here are the issues with the Vette which need fixin':
-Build quality
-Tricky handling at 10/10s. Likely due to using a torsion bar instead of a spring
-Overheating in a single lap. Many think it's limited to only the Z06 but some investigation shows it's most of them
-An auto tranny that isn't a steaming pile of shit
-A 7sp manual tranny with well defined gates. If you are unable to do this, go back to a 6sp

Now they will divert resources building a stupid mid engined car instead of the vital other items that actually matter.

It is epically frustrating

Umm, gonna need some sources/data on what you're talking about here. And no, this is not just me shilling for Corvette because I own one.


Build quality? I'm not really aware of that being a problem. The car is definitely built to a price and is NOT a luxury car, but the build quality is certainly fine. It's no worse than any other American car. I guess this is subjective but I don't find it objectionable. If you wanted this level of performance and high-end build quality, you're talking about a Porsche which costs an extra 30%+. The Corvette forums are overrun with OCD and anal-retentive owners who cause a scene with their dealer at any small issue. I've seen some of these threads and just laugh.

Overheating is only affecting automatic Z06s, and only some, at that. It's way overblown. There are tons of Z06s at track days and I have only once had one of them say they overheated it. If you spend any time on the Corvette forums, you'll see that it is not as big of an issue as the media loved to make it out to be.


The auto tranny is not a God-tier unit, I'll agree. It's certainly fine for driving around town which is what 95% of owners are doing. The 8-speed is a GM-developed box and is miles ahead of the old 6-speed unit. Dunno why they didn't just source the ZF 8-speed like everyone else, but it is a transaxle so maybe there were some unusual limitations? I think the C8 is going with a Tremec DCT, fortunately.

The manual tranny does have a bit of an issue with the 3rd gear gate, yes. I noticed this right away on my first test drive. It's a Tremec unit so I can't totally fault GM here, but you'd think with this same basic design being around for so long they would've worked it out (design was used in older Corvettes). An aftermarket shifter, like the MGW, cleans things up.
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      08-14-2018, 03:55 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65fastback View Post
I had a 2013 e92 zcp owned it for about a year and a half... traded it for a 2018 corvette 6 months ago.
If I was to sell my M3, this is what I'd go for. So many great performance options in the c7 range. But the mustang? It's just so ugly, particularly the facelifted versions. And the Bullit doesn't help things. I had a 2012 for 3 years, which I liked. It was fairly quick and sounded great. I really like the engines and (even!) the manual transmission. Everything? It becomes a tiring car to own after a while, unless you spend the purchase price in mods to correct the things the factory didn't want to address.

I get the that the current car is "better" than my old car, but don't be fooled, I have no doubt that Ford cheaped out wherever they could with that car. The underside of my car was full of surface rust within 3 months of ownership!
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      08-16-2018, 07:15 PM   #14
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I cant get behind the looks of most mustangs or camaros. Although the GT350 looks decent, and i would assume the new GT500 is going to be badass.
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      09-02-2018, 12:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mvy View Post
Hey BMW fans. Every once in a while, usually after an expensive service, I toy with the idea of an American muscle car. Im always torn between a corvette or a mustang, usually leaning towards the Chevy. But this week a special Mustang was released that gets to me. Its the Steve McQueen legend, the Bullitt.

Check out a good review on wired:
https://www.wired.com/story/2019-for...tt-test-drive/

What do you think? Could it replace my supercharged M3?


Save yourself thousands and just get a Mustang GT with the PP.
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      09-12-2018, 06:45 PM   #16
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mustang gt or 1LE, best bang for the buck
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      03-09-2019, 10:33 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montaver View Post
American cars have come a long way..

I drove a Shelby GT350 - it was riotously good. Massive amounts of top end power, the sound is next level. The flat plane V8 howls menacingly, muscly and exotic at the same time. Brake pedal feel was excellent, masses of grip (295 fronts, 305 rears!), nice notchy gearbox. Seating position was crap, and the interior was a step down from the e9x. Chassis felt well dampened and cornered very flat. Steering wasn't the best in terms of feel and weight but it was very precise. It felt particularly lifeless run back to back with the e9x but that's the same with a lot of modern cars.

The Bullit looks like a special edition GT, which is a cool car but I wouldn't get out of an e9x for one. GT350 is a different story..
Old thread but just stumbled upon it . As someone who toyed with the idea of a GT350 to replace my E92 but finally did not act on it, there were 2 main reasons that got me to keep my e92M3
1. Build quality and interior quality - not even on the same level ... the M3 is still miles ahead
2. Very consistent horror stories regarding oil consumption on that voodoo motor starting around 5-10K miles. If u think the rod bearing issue is scary with our M3s, the oil consumption and secondary vibration issue on the GT350 is even worse. Ford has deemed the oil consumption as normal. Worse is , this isn't that much an issue when the car is new, but starts anywhere between the 10-15K mike mark according to consensus on the GT 350 forums. To me, that did not bode well for the longevity of the motor , however great it may be
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      03-10-2019, 01:07 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post

-An auto tranny that isn't a steaming pile of shit

It is epically frustrating
G8x M3/M4 next in line to join with an overheating ZFat!
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      03-10-2019, 08:51 AM   #19
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To build on this thread the first American car I'm actually excited about (other than the hellcats when they first came out) is the new GT500. As long as they have a manual version coming out
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      03-10-2019, 10:45 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-M3 View Post
Old thread but just stumbled upon it . As someone who toyed with the idea of a GT350 to replace my E92 but finally did not act on it, there were 2 main reasons that got me to keep my e92M3
1. Build quality and interior quality - not even on the same level ... the M3 is still miles ahead
2. Very consistent horror stories regarding oil consumption on that voodoo motor starting around 5-10K miles. If u think the rod bearing issue is scary with our M3s, the oil consumption and secondary vibration issue on the GT350 is even worse. Ford has deemed the oil consumption as normal. Worse is , this isn't that much an issue when the car is new, but starts anywhere between the 10-15K mike mark according to consensus on the GT 350 forums. To me, that did not bode well for the longevity of the motor , however great it may be
wait...don't we have crazy oil consumption on the m3 too? My last one I used to have to fill up every couple of months.
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      03-10-2019, 12:57 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvstar9M3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-M3 View Post
Old thread but just stumbled upon it . As someone who toyed with the idea of a GT350 to replace my E92 but finally did not act on it, there were 2 main reasons that got me to keep my e92M3
1. Build quality and interior quality - not even on the same level ... the M3 is still miles ahead
2. Very consistent horror stories regarding oil consumption on that voodoo motor starting around 5-10K miles. If u think the rod bearing issue is scary with our M3s, the oil consumption and secondary vibration issue on the GT350 is even worse. Ford has deemed the oil consumption as normal. Worse is , this isn't that much an issue when the car is new, but starts anywhere between the 10-15K mike mark according to consensus on the GT 350 forums. To me, that did not bode well for the longevity of the motor , however great it may be
wait...don't we have crazy oil consumption on the m3 too? My last one I used to have to fill up every couple of months.
Oil consumption yes .... but it ain't too crazy I believe on the M3. Mine uses oil too ... about one quart every 7-8K miles ... but that too is me always keeping the oil level at the full-3/4 mark on the electronic dipstick. It's never really given me a low oil warning except maybe once I believe. And this is with the newer shell based 10W60 which is reported to be a slightly thinner viscosity than the castrol 10W60. It does make the car feel smoother though. With the earlier castrol edge professional , I hardly needed to top up between oil changes.

If u browse thru the GT350 forums, long term reviews and speaking to owners (I've had chats with 2), some cars are going through almost 7-8 quarts in between oil changes . One of the two that I spoke with is doing better - he's at 25k miles and needs about 3-4 quarts every 8K . It's this level of consumption that's been deemed normal by Ford that bothers me.

If our M3s were consuming that much oil , it wouldn't be without a problem that would need to be diagnosed and fixed ( leaky valve seals, piston ring issue, oil leaks , something....). I would personally not feel comfortable with an engine burning that much oil for regular use.
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      03-10-2019, 01:42 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-M3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvstar9M3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-M3 View Post
Old thread but just stumbled upon it . As someone who toyed with the idea of a GT350 to replace my E92 but finally did not act on it, there were 2 main reasons that got me to keep my e92M3
1. Build quality and interior quality - not even on the same level ... the M3 is still miles ahead
2. Very consistent horror stories regarding oil consumption on that voodoo motor starting around 5-10K miles. If u think the rod bearing issue is scary with our M3s, the oil consumption and secondary vibration issue on the GT350 is even worse. Ford has deemed the oil consumption as normal. Worse is , this isn't that much an issue when the car is new, but starts anywhere between the 10-15K mike mark according to consensus on the GT 350 forums. To me, that did not bode well for the longevity of the motor , however great it may be
wait...don't we have crazy oil consumption on the m3 too? My last one I used to have to fill up every couple of months.
Oil consumption yes .... but it ain't too crazy I believe on the M3. Mine uses oil too ... about one quart every 7-8K miles ... but that too is me always keeping the oil level at the full-3/4 mark on the electronic dipstick. It's never really given me a low oil warning except maybe once I believe. And this is with the newer shell based 10W60 which is reported to be a slightly thinner viscosity than the castrol 10W60. It does make the car feel smoother though. With the earlier castrol edge professional , I hardly needed to top up between oil changes.

If u browse thru the GT350 forums, long term reviews and speaking to owners (I've had chats with 2), some cars are going through almost 7-8 quarts in between oil changes . One of the two that I spoke with is doing better - he's at 25k miles and needs about 3-4 quarts every 8K . It's this level of consumption that's been deemed normal by Ford that bothers me.

If our M3s were consuming that much oil , it wouldn't be without a problem that would need to be diagnosed and fixed ( leaky valve seals, piston ring issue, oil leaks , something....). I would personally not feel comfortable with an engine burning that much oil for regular use.
when I don't have some sort of gasket leak, I don't burn through too much at all between oil changes.
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