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07-02-2009, 08:04 AM | #1 | |||
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DOT-R Tires Discussion
Title says it all. How are the different R-compound tires working with our E9X Ms on the track?
Below is an exchange copied from another thread to get this going. Quote:
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07-02-2009, 09:57 AM | #2 |
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I run BFG R1 265/35 front, 285/30 rear.
I keep the PS2 as "wet" tires. My original impression was that the BFG R1 has higher limits in every sense but when you aproach that limit they are somewhat less predictable. I feel the PS2 has wider transition zone before give away. The BFG R1 lost tracktion all of a sudden a couple of times when I thought I still have good adhesion. I have never spin the car with the PS2s but I did it 2 times with the BFG R1. They are more sensitive to pressure changes, need more warm up, but they never become soft or greasy with my driving. They did improved my lap times. I am not too experienced on the track, so take my assessment with a grain of salt. |
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07-02-2009, 12:11 PM | #3 |
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I am running BFG's R1s square 275/35-18s.
I have three track days on them and they are holding up quite well. I think they will deliver 6 days. Grip is stupendous. Shaved more than 3 seconds from a 2:04 lap time. WIll definitely get them again after they wear. Pressures have to be kept between 38 & 41 psi for best grip. If they go above 41 they start getting a bit slippery.
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07-02-2009, 12:42 PM | #4 |
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I am running a square set of Nitto NT-01 275/35/18.
I never had them heat cycled and just started lapping with them brand new. They were very grippy right off the bat and after the first day they got even better. After 10 days at the track, they are still holding up very well. I expect them to last me the rest of the season, about 3 more events or 6 more days, maybe more. I haven't noticed any degradation of grip after all the heat cycles so far and based on other people's experiences with these tires, I don't think that will ever be an issue for the tires' tread life. They have gradually become more of a slick and grip has been more tenacious as the weather has become warmer. Because they are a square set, I have the luxury of rotating them periodically. Left to right, front to back, to even out the wear. This seems to work really well. The shoulders are holding up well despite the stock camber I run with and I'm very pleased with their performance, although I suspect some camber up front would be very beneficial with these tires. I had them on a wet track once, but never again. It was an adventure, especially under braking. I use my stock PS2s as wet tires now. I run the Nittos 39-40 psi hot front and back. Feels very well balanced in the square configuration. The tires are also very predictable for an R-compound and will let the driver know when their limits are approached. This attribute of the tires has remained consistent since day one. I love these tires and would buy another set. I used to have Toyo RA-1s as well as R888s and although those were on a different car, I still think I like the NT-01s more overall. Best part about the Nittos are that they are relatively cheap. I will also consider BFG R1s for next season but may just stick with another set of these Nittos since it looks like they last longer.
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07-02-2009, 03:27 PM | #6 | |
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I've found the BFG R1s to be more forgiving than I expected--provided they are up to temp. Regardless, with them, you need to react and countersteer much earlier than you would with street tires. When they are cold, they are unforgiving, and will snap oversteer--not much of a warning. PS2s will scream for a reasonable amount of time before they let go. They'll give you plenty warning in other ways even when they are greasy. With the R1s, the audial warning is more like an aggressive tire bite than a scream, but you need to be listening for it. I like their pricing at around $250/tire. I currently have 4.5 days on them or so, and would like to get at least 8 days out of this set, and looking at tread wear, that should be possible.
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07-02-2009, 03:36 PM | #7 |
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I know we are talking in days here but how many miles/laps and sessions do you run in a day? A normal track day for me may be 50 laps, of just over 2 miles with 12 turns. I have yet to run R comps on my M but the PS2s for myself and a few others were only good for 3-4 days. I have about 80 laps on Nitto NT05s and think i could pull another 80 out of them. Once they are done I think I will move back to NT01s which is what I have run the most on my previous setups.
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07-02-2009, 03:44 PM | #8 | |
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07-02-2009, 03:49 PM | #9 | |
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Thanks for the info Lucid thats the kind of data I needed. We have a 180deg turn that can be taken between 60-80 kph that ate my front PS2s in no time, I had to back way off to 60 kph just to keep the tire reasonable for one day. I have noticed with the H&R sports plus, and extra camber from an alignement that I can hold this above 70kph without ill affect, I am hoping that with some camber plates and NT01s to push beyond 80kph as this corner exits onto the front straight so the most important turn on the track and really shows the weak point in the front suspension design. |
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07-02-2009, 07:28 PM | #10 | |
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07-02-2009, 09:19 PM | #11 |
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I use 5mm spacers in the rear, but its just to keep the differences in track width front & rear as stock. They are not necessary. I have very slight rubbing in the front at full lock. Not a problem at the track. Wheels are TR Motorsports 18x10.
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07-02-2009, 09:19 PM | #12 | |
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07-02-2009, 09:21 PM | #13 | |
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07-02-2009, 09:56 PM | #14 |
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Nitto NT-01s in 245/275-40/18 are very good performers, factor in the price and they are hard to beat.
I run them at 37-39psi hot. Good wear pattern and temperature differential with no significant roll-over using -1.8° camber front and rear w/ Dinan plates and springs. Car is nearly neutral, very slight understeer. The require little warm up, on a hot day I can push from pit out. In the cold they need half a lap, frustrating those on Hoosiers and Cups. I drive to the track with them and with a full tread they're very manageable in the wet unless there's standing water, drove two wet/drying sessions with them nearly bald and they were better than I would have thought possible, no snap spin tendencies with careful throttle control, drifts predictably in the wet and maintains decent grip. Tire starts out grippy as sticker tires, and then gets faster as it wears to a slick with two sipes til the wear indicators are almost gone, so lots of life for your money. They seem quite resistant to heat cycling, wearing to the bone. Behavior is much like the old Toyo RA1. Same amount of stick to R888 to me, but with more life. Supposedly the NT-01 is a modified RA-1, Nitto is a Toyo company. They only give up about a second to Hoosier R6 in their prime on a 90 second lap at my local track. About equal to worn out Hoosiers. |
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07-02-2009, 10:05 PM | #16 | |
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You might consider the new Hoosier R100 full race slick. They cost a little more ($1400 set) but Hoosier states they are more suited to heavy cars. I'm going to try these soon. Friends who run these on GT3s are raving about the increase in stick and life over R6s. They come in the correct size for 18s. |
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07-05-2009, 02:43 PM | #18 |
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I do only half days on the track since it's extremely difficult to get away for a whole day for me.
Almost every time I do 70-80miles on the track. (I reset my trip computer just to get amused with the 7.5-8.0 miles/gallon reading) So far I've got about 230miles on the BFG -R1 and I think I have another 250-300 miles to go. So I guess I have about 500-550 miles life expectancy with my driving on MAM per set of BFG-R1. |
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07-05-2009, 03:31 PM | #19 |
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NT01 is probably the best value for HPDEs. They can get pretty hot, recover quickly, and don't degrade with heat cycles like the R6 or R888. They will last about twice as long as an R6 on the E46 (based on 15 sets of R6s on my E46 and 5 sets of NT01s)
On the heavy E9X, if you're driving at 9/10ths or above where you are getting the benefit out of the tire, I'd be surprised if R6s last more than 1 to 2 HPDE days. I got about 4 hard days out of two sets of NT01s on my E90. I'd like to try the R1s soon....sounds like an awesome tire. |
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07-18-2009, 03:00 PM | #20 |
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My R888's on the rear have had little grip ever since they got to about 2/32nds.Unlike the other tires that I have run till they "corded" they did not slowly give but just totaly fell off and came apart at the end of their life.
The problem with this is that is came apart in long strands and battered up the rear fender pretty good but fortunatly it polished right up today.The good thing is that I had my top notch pit crew with me at the track yesterday. But at least you can make a bracelet out of the strands |
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07-25-2009, 03:51 PM | #21 |
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Nice wheel setup Tamas. What tires were you running on the stock 19" rims? If you shaved 6 seconds, they must not have been r-compounds?
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07-25-2009, 04:10 PM | #22 |
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OK. That explains it. You can build much more speed on the fast straights since your exit speeds will be so much higher.
I decided not to go back to the Glen in my E92 M3. I can't restrain myself to go slow once I am on the track and that track is too fast for an uncaged car with 400hp IMO. My speedo was hitting 150+ as well. If something goes seriously wrong at those speeds in a street car, I don't know that you have much of a chance. Be safe.
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