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      09-29-2018, 12:00 PM   #1
inTgr8r
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Home setup for doing alignment & corner balancing

This topic started in the track chat thread but it makes more sense to have this as a separate topic so that it can more easily be found later.

I will start with alignment & add corner balance later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Number 86 View Post
inTgr8r me, alex, and james need to know your alignment tools you use at home!
You mean this setup?

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Most of what you see is self fabricated.
  • The four car stands are aluminum. the tops have an 1.5" lip all around so there is no danger of the car falling off.
  • On the stands there are heavy gauge sheet metal slide plates (2 plates each stand with Teflon in between).
    This allows the suspension to squat to proper position as the car is lowered into position.
  • The 4 posts are just standard uni-strut which supports the 1.5" rigid aluminum pipe
  • The pipe supports the string lines (I use mono fishing line).

Purchased products;
  • A laser level. (way in back near bench). Used during setup to establish accurate level between all four car stands.
  • Digital camber gauge by Longacre (Green Arrow).
  • and of course the lift. I really like the scissor style for this type of work.
  • Steering wheel holder/clamp

Basically the string lines are setup perfectly parallel to each other.
This is done by marking out the front and rear pipes exactly the same for string location(red arrows)
A center line is also marked (yellow arrow)

Next the car is placed exactly in the middle of the string lines.
This is done by measuring from wheel hubs to the string line and nudging the posts back & forth until measurements are equal.
*note both fronts to be equal with each other & back with each other.
there is no correlation front to back because hubs are different spans.

once centered, the center line from the pipe (f&r) are transferred to the car (use painters tape).
This provides an easy visual confirmation that the car is still square in the center (check often).
If this is off, you will have thrust angle.

The camber gauge is independent and has no relation to the string line setup.

Camber is done first before string lines final setup. (usually requires lifting front of car)
Then do the toe with string lines.


  • The final thing you should do is calibrate the steering angle sensor before you unlock the steering wheel.
    I use ISTA to do this,
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      09-29-2018, 12:02 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
Awesome!

If I'm looking at it right, the tires are off? I'd like to get some close ups of the stands if you don't mind.
No; tires are on just like a normal alignment.
The car has to sit as it does on the ground.
I also inflate to my 'hot' temp so that tire has the proper profile.
I'll grab a couple more pics.
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      09-29-2018, 12:03 PM   #3
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Stands with slide plates under wheels....

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      09-29-2018, 12:06 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Number 86 View Post
Yes. Are you then using toe plates to measure side to side? I'm thinking of string, laser to setup centered, camber and toe plates. Are you doing the z4m on this too? (Are the stands fixed?)
Toe plates are far less accurate than string lines.
Laser is for leveling the equipment only, it cant really be used to center the car for thrust angle.

You can do any car this way.
Stands are not fixed.
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      09-29-2018, 12:20 PM   #5
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String elevation is set at the center of wheel hub.

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.
.
.

From top view.
Red arrow from hub to string is how you setup strings to center the car.
Its the same measurement both front sides; then do same for both rear sides (front & rear will be different values )

Once car is centered between strings (all 4 hubs)
Then you can make toe adjustment by measuring rim to string at front and back of wheel.
Yellow arrows

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      09-29-2018, 01:30 PM   #6
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This is awesome. Thanks for sharing. How long does it take you to adjust the alignment.
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      09-29-2018, 01:35 PM   #7
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Thanks.
I'm never in a big rush with it but I can knock it out in a couple of hours.
My setup is easier now that I've done it a few times and mark the stands etc so that they go back in the same place.
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      09-29-2018, 02:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inTgr8r View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
Awesome!

If I'm looking at it right, the tires are off? I'd like to get some close ups of the stands if you don't mind.
No; tires are on just like a normal alignment.
The car has to sit as it does on the ground.
I also inflate to my 'hot' temp so that tire has the proper profile.
I'll grab a couple more pics.
Thanks.

I've been looking for some ideas to build some hub stands which would make suspension work x1,000,000 times easier.

I like how you built those.
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      09-29-2018, 07:03 PM   #9
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This is awesome op thanks for this. Never knew why we've never had this. The Z guys seem more technically advanced in the diy stuff. Heresy!! Lol
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      09-29-2018, 08:27 PM   #10
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very cool! inspiring!

do you do anything to calculate or account for bump steer? do you ever put a 200lb weight in the front seat or anything fun like that?
i was talking with a buddy that is a kart guy the other week and he was telling me about bump steer and what he does to his kart to keep geometry good, etc... i wasn't sure if the same method translates into our tanks or not. to be honest, i was a few beers deep [i'm a lightweight] and can't quite remember what he specifically did. lol
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      09-29-2018, 09:02 PM   #11
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bump steer becomes an issue with ride heights, low enough that it changes linkage/control arm angle too much.
That can only be dealt with by changing linkage components.

Yes, I definitely simulate my weight in the car.
Gas in the tank is another.
Since gas fill is a changing value on track, I use 1/2 tank when doing alignment minimize the effect on track.

The other thing that's important is to center the steering wheel & clamp it into position.
I do this with the front unloaded.
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      09-30-2018, 12:48 AM   #12
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is it possible to get rid of it on our cars? what exactly gets replaced on our cars? from what i understand, it can be different with every car. i know of a few guys running SPL links, but haven't had the chance to speak with them in detail about them.

so, if i'm understanding what you're doing correctly, you're stringing the car to check toe and using the camber gauge to strictly check camber?

also, to adjust toe, do you have to get the car back in the air, adjust, then set it down again to remeasure? do toe plates allow for you to adjust toe "under load" while the car is sitting there, or are toe plates designed to be a shortcut so you don't have to string the car?
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      09-30-2018, 10:45 AM   #13
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I don't really notice an issue with bump steer, so I haven't looked into solutions for our cars.
What are you seeing that concerns you?
Bump steer causes the car to get loose and possibly change direction (self steer) under suspension compression.
Is that a problem for you?

For toe adjustment;
No, you definitely dont want to lift the car, you would lose your setup with the string lines.
The slide plates (*not toe plates) on the stands allow for free movement of the wheels while adjusting tie rod ends(f) and camber control arms (r)

"Toe plates" are a completely different piece of equipment.
They go against the face of both wheels, then you measure under the car between the 2 plates.
I just don't feel that they are accurate enough to measure under the car that way.
Also, depending on your tire sidewall profile they could be resting against the tires and not the wheels.
Its also more difficult to deal with thrust angle.
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      09-30-2018, 09:52 PM   #14
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i see.

i'm not 100% sure what i'm experiencing is bump steer... i just know bumpsteer is bad and its a new area to explore. i'm not even in a position to adjust anything at the moment, but i figured this was the appropriate area of discussion and an opportunity to learn.

at turn 7 at laguna, the track sucks down quite a bit toward the inside. what is frustrating, is its too much for the oem suspension to really hit it the way i want to take advantage of the entire width of the track. i have to slow down to take it how it feels proper, and this kills momentum in charging up the hill.
this is a separate issue than bumpsteer alone, but i feel like the car hunkering down from hitting the banking on the track causes it to turn "too much."
in another turn (turn 10 at laguna), there is similar banking on the inside, but it is not as harsh. a few weeks back, i focused on less steering input at this particular turn, and it really helped. i carried more speed and it was noticeably faster.

now, i don't know if bumpsteer is even an issue with oem suspension cycle limitations. this is just a perception at this point. also, i don't know if bumpsteer on this car would create an oversteer or an understeer situation. i track with mdm and can see mdm intervening in a bumpsteer situation and just botching the whole corner and making it even slower.
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      09-30-2018, 10:02 PM   #15
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With OE suspension bump steer is not an issue.
It would only be a problem on coilover setups that are quite low.

I don't really have any direct experience in this area.
Maybe someone else that has worked through this can comment further.
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      09-30-2018, 10:09 PM   #16
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I think mike is just experiencing "limitations of oem suspension"
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      09-30-2018, 11:54 PM   #17
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i see. i was thinking maybe under hard, sudden compression it was causing an issue, but it could very well be the poor dampening of the oem suspension. i also feel like it unloads and throws the car wider if i get too low. i was experimenting with it all day and nothing really felt "right" and "fast" at the same time... if that makes any sense.
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      10-01-2018, 12:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
i see. i was thinking maybe under hard, sudden compression it was causing an issue, but it could very well be the poor dampening of the oem suspension. i also feel like it unloads and throws the car wider if i get too low. i was experimenting with it all day and nothing really felt "right" and "fast" at the same time... if that makes any sense.
probably throws you wider because the rebound is most likely soft on the oe set up and you're bouncing back up pretty hard.
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      10-01-2018, 05:44 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Number 86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
i see. i was thinking maybe under hard, sudden compression it was causing an issue, but it could very well be the poor dampening of the oem suspension. i also feel like it unloads and throws the car wider if i get too low. i was experimenting with it all day and nothing really felt "right" and "fast" at the same time... if that makes any sense.
probably throws you wider because the rebound is most likely soft on the oe set up and you're bouncing back up pretty hard.
I feel like that's what's going on sometimes... like I'm heading off further than warranted for my speed. Lol

I did 53 laps at laguna that day. My fastest was on lap 19- a 1:44:448. A full second slower than my last pb, so I'm thinking it's not 100% me.
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      10-01-2018, 06:33 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
I feel like that's what's going on sometimes... like I'm heading off further than warranted for my speed. Lol

I did 53 laps at laguna that day. My fastest was on lap 19- a 1:44:448. A full second slower than my last pb, so I'm thinking it's not 100% me.
let me try lol
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      10-01-2018, 07:51 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Number 86 View Post
let me try lol
ok, you can borrow my 100+ laguna laps, tired ass tires (one with a 4" blowout in it) and have at it. come at me bro!
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      10-01-2018, 11:06 PM   #22
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How do you get the car on the stands and then roll it or unbind the suspension?

BTW, I have a set of wireless corner balancing scales that I can rent out.
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