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      10-14-2018, 06:43 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpewpew View Post
I am trying to figure out if JRZ RS One, with level 2 550/800 springs, street camber plates, 4x helper springs, street (yellow) rear shock mounts, and end links are appropriate for my use. I'm not interested in many variables of adjustment and prefer to reduce complexity.

I don't drive daily, and don't drive on street often.. but I do. Doing ~2 HPDE days a month, not doing any real racing. Don't have aftermarket rear sway bar, just dinan front sway. Does this feel like a good choice? Or just go with Ohlins R&T + different springs + camber plates?
If you track that often, it might be worth at least going with the RS 2's. As you get faster, you might appreciate being able to adjust compression as well as rebound. I have the RS 2's on my E90 with 550/700. My dampers are due for a rebuild (3 years + ~60 track days) and I'm going to move to 600/800 when I put them back on.
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      10-14-2018, 09:04 PM   #24
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Thanks guys! And what's the deal with the rear "weight jacks"? Worth adding to RS One or RS Two? Still a bit confused over whether the rear weight jacks and adjustable end links are something I'd get value out of. The helper springs in all 4 corners make sense to me.
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      10-14-2018, 09:20 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpewpew View Post
Thanks guys! And what's the deal with the rear "weight jacks"? Worth adding to RS One or RS Two? Still a bit confused over whether the rear weight jacks and adjustable end links are something I'd get value out of. The helper springs in all 4 corners make sense to me.
The weight jacks are essentially articulating spring mounts.
To my knowledge, they assist in reducing any "torquing" of the springs and keep them straight on compression. Also they make height adjustments more convenient when corner balancing or for simple aesthetic changes.
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      10-14-2018, 09:25 PM   #26
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Thanks M3ANMACHINE. I think I'll add them then, seems like they'll help prevent a potential headache with compression
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      10-19-2018, 06:14 PM   #27
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Do we really need the helper springs?
Isn't it mainly if you get really light or airborne?
.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      10-19-2018, 07:02 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
Do we really need the helper springs?
Isn't it mainly if you get really light or airborne?
.
It's not a necessity, no. You'll technically be fine without them.
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      10-19-2018, 07:28 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
Do we really need the helper springs?
Isn't it mainly if you get really light or airborne?
.
I ran my JRZ RS1 with no helper springs. No issues even on track.
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      10-20-2018, 12:21 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpewpew View Post
I am trying to figure out if JRZ RS One, with level 2 550/800 springs, street camber plates, 4x helper springs, street (yellow) rear shock mounts, and end links are appropriate for my use. I'm not interested in many variables of adjustment and prefer to reduce complexity.

I don't drive daily, and don't drive on street often.. but I do. Doing ~2 HPDE days a month, not doing any real racing. Don't have aftermarket rear sway bar, just dinan front sway. Does this feel like a good choice? Or just go with Ohlins R&T + different springs + camber plates?
I am happy to walk you through the decision making process. As outlined in the article I posted earlier in the thread, we offer a variety of components to ensure enthusiasts are not forced into making compromises. Being able to custom tailor your suspension package to suit your specific needs is a huge advantage over cookie cutter solutions.

Based on what you have described so far, my assumption is that you are running extreme summer tires and the car does not have any aero. Is that correct? What is your wheel and tire setup for track days?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
Do we really need the helper springs?
Isn't it mainly if you get really light or airborne?
.
Helper springs are not required, however, we do typically suggest them for the front coilovers.

A helper spring essentially has no effective rate. Its sole purpose is to keep the main spring seated under full droop (jacking/lifting the car up in the air, hopping over berms on a race track etc.).

A tender spring has some effective rate, which must be precisely calculated and taken into account when choosing the main spring rate. The result is a progressive spring configuration.

We offer helper springs (as opposed to tender springs) as an optional add-on with all our JRZ suspension kits for a few reasons. Spring configurations incorporating helper springs are much simpler to fine tune for the end user. Enthusiasts can experiment with various main spring rates without the added complexities that tender springs introduce due to their impact on the effective rate.

Helper springs do not typically introduce any noise, and under compression, they are fully collapsed resulting in only a small increase in overall spring stack height. Stack height is important as it directly impacts the location of your lower spring perch at the front of the vehicle. As a wheel company, APEX is well aware of the importance of tire to suspension clearance and adding an extra spring and guide to the equation ultimately lowers the position of the lower spring perch. Doing so can result in tire interference on many BMW models, especially when wide wheel and tire configurations are used under the front fenders.

To keep the position of the lower perch as high up as possible (ideally above the tire rather than alongside it), we’ve specifically selected Hyperco’s ultra-thin helper springs which are more compact when fully compressed in comparison to others. We’ve also sourced an ultra low profile aluminum spring guide made from aircraft grade 6061-T6 aluminum, which sits in between the helper spring and main spring. These guides are designed to cup the Hyperco Helper Springs to keep alignment and reduce binding with the main spring.

We do not typically recommend rear helper springs for the E9X M3 chassis, nor does JRZ package their standard E9X M3 kits with them. The 7" Hyperco rear main spring paired with the optional Ground Control Articulating Weight Jack and upper nylon spring guide is a very effective and proven divorced configuration for the rear of the car.

This is not to say you cannot use helper springs with a divorced rear configuration. These suspension kits are fully customizable in an effort to cater to all the different needs of enthusiasts out there, therefore we've simply made them available as an option.

For Reference - Hyperco 2.25" ID Main Spring, Helper Spring & Genesis Guide





- Ryan
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      10-20-2018, 12:42 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpewpew View Post
Thanks guys! And what's the deal with the rear "weight jacks"? Worth adding to RS One or RS Two? Still a bit confused over whether the rear weight jacks and adjustable end links are something I'd get value out of. The helper springs in all 4 corners make sense to me.
Weight Jacks replace the standard rear height adjusters, to address the issue of inconsistent spring rates. Rear springs aren’t compressed straight up and down. As the control arm articulates, the spring is compressed unevenly. These weight jacks use a pivot point to keep the spring vertical throughout the range of motion. As an added benefit, ride height can be adjusted with a socket from underneath without having to pull the wheel off.

They are certainly not required, but they are a nice touch. I have incorporated them into all of the JRZ setups I have run.



- Ryan
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      10-20-2018, 01:21 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexRaceParts View Post
I am happy to walk you through the decision making process. As outlined in the article I posted earlier in the thread, we offer a variety of components to ensure enthusiasts are not forced into making compromises. Being able to custom tailor your suspension package to suit your specific needs is a huge advantage over cookie cutter solutions.

Based on what you have described so far, my assumption is that you are running extreme summer tires and the car does not have any aero. Is that correct? What is your wheel and tire setup for track days?

...

Helper springs are not required, however, we do typically suggest them for the front coilovers.

...

We do not typically recommend rear helper springs for the E9X M3 chassis, nor does JRZ package their standard E9X M3 kits with them. The 7" Hyperco rear main spring paired with the optional Ground Control Articulating Weight Jack and upper nylon spring guide is a very effective and proven divorced configuration for the rear of the car.

This is not to say you cannot use helper springs with a divorced rear configuration. These suspension kits are fully customizable in an effort to cater to all the different needs of enthusiasts out there, therefore we've simply made them available as an option.
Thanks Ryan - this is all very helpful. I am adjusting my pledge to 1x pair of helper springs and removing the adjustable front sway end-links (Dinan sway has them already).

On the topic of wheels/tires you're right - no aero, Apex EC-7 18x10 ET25, with fresh Nitto NT01 275/35/18 mounted. Previously ran Hankook RS4 and RE71R.
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      10-20-2018, 08:11 AM   #33
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My JRZ experience have been very good.
In have them for two seasons and roughly 40 track days. The track I go to (NYST) has two spots that are very harsh on the suspension. 1 is a jump and a landing, the second is a dip at fairly high speed.

I have the 4 way system with remotes.
Springs are 750 front and 900 rear.

Sway bars are Hotchkis on both on 73% stiffer than stock

Over the last two years I went through methodical adjustment from soft to to where it is now.

What I mostly appreciate about the JRZ is that I can feel every click adjustment in the suspension. So far no issues I know off.

My car is not a daily driver, but not dedicated track car. It is stiff but not harsh. It is a very very enjoyable to drive and I drive to and from the track. I don't know if the JRZ are better than anything else, but I love my JRZ suspension.
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      10-24-2018, 12:25 AM   #34
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Maybe post this in the Suspension section and 1M board too?
Hell, looks like you can get this for the non M cars too.

Looks like shipping is included?
I just signed up.
Thanks OP.
.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."

Last edited by aus; 10-24-2018 at 08:50 AM..
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      10-25-2018, 06:19 AM   #35
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I don't understand the price difference between 1M/M3. Is the valving different??
Why is the camber plate option different?

Works for me, not really complaining just curious.
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      10-25-2018, 12:52 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpewpew View Post
Thanks Ryan - this is all very helpful. I am adjusting my pledge to 1x pair of helper springs and removing the adjustable front sway end-links (Dinan sway has them already).

On the topic of wheels/tires you're right - no aero, Apex EC-7 18x10 ET25, with fresh Nitto NT01 275/35/18 mounted. Previously ran Hankook RS4 and RE71R.
Great. The only other component that I would call attention to would be the Ground Control adjustable camber plates. As you know, we give you the option of going with their "street" or "race" plates depending on your intended use.

The street plates are great for enthusiasts enjoying their car predominantly as such - a street car. Both a daily driver or a fun weekend car can fall into this category. The owner enjoys driving spiritedly on back canyon roads and/or does some occasional track days or autoX events, and the ability to dial in negative camber contributes to increased handling capabilities while mitigating tire shoulder wear. The street plates use urethane bushings, which transmits virtually zero NVH. The negative camber range achievable with the street plates is limited to approximately -2 degrees (possibly up to -2.5 degrees). This negative camber range suits this type of enthusiast, and tires no more aggressive than the extreme summer category.

Whether you are new to performance driving and looking to improve your skills behind the wheel, or an experienced racer, the race plates will provide a broad-enough range of camber and caster adjustment to ensure your alignment settings are ideal for any performance driving environment. Ultimately, Race plates are best suited for drivers who prioritize performance and a direct steering response over all else. Like all components engineered to maximize performance, the genetic makeup of race camber plates may induce noise audible in the cabin. However, most of our customers prefer the adjustability and solid design of the race plates, and are happy with the trade-off, even on their street-driven cars.

I've personally installed race plates on each and every one of my M3's over the years, some of which were dual duty cars, while others were strictly track focused. I did not receive any added NVH, but I as described above, I was okay with the performance trade-off even if some NVH was introduced over time.

The race plates allow you to dial in negative camber up to approximately -4 degrees, and as stated above, this ensures that you have the ability to dial in the proper negative camber specifications to suit your vehicle and environment in any given situation. Extreme summer tires, r-compounds like the NT01's you are running, and semi slicks all perform best with over -3 degrees dialed in at the front of the vehicle. Performance aside, the added negative camber also leads to more consistent tire wear which has a direct impact on the seasonal running costs of your vehicle.

The best way to make a decision is to reflect on how you use the car today, AND how you plan to use the car in the future. If you are already running r-comps which have a shorter lifespan in the name of lap times, why not go with a camber plate that also prioritizes performance?


Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyary View Post
My JRZ experience have been very good.
In have them for two seasons and roughly 40 track days. The track I go to (NYST) has two spots that are very harsh on the suspension. 1 is a jump and a landing, the second is a dip at fairly high speed.

I have the 4 way system with remotes.
Springs are 750 front and 900 rear.

Sway bars are Hotchkis on both on 73% stiffer than stock

Over the last two years I went through methodical adjustment from soft to to where it is now.

What I mostly appreciate about the JRZ is that I can feel every click adjustment in the suspension. So far no issues I know off.

My car is not a daily driver, but not dedicated track car. It is stiff but not harsh. It is a very very enjoyable to drive and I drive to and from the track. I don't know if the JRZ are better than anything else, but I love my JRZ suspension.
JRZ Motorsport dampers Appreciate your feedback, and love where you mounted the rear resi's.

I couldn't agree more in regards to your statement about feeling every adjustment click - whether it is rebound or compression. I've used a number of coilovers from other manufactures over the years, and I distinctly remember making some drastic adjustments to my damper settings before going back out on track for another session, only to find out I could hardly identify a change in the damping characteristics - for better or worse. Drivers shouldn't have to go nearly from full soft to full stiff to notice a change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
Maybe post this in the Suspension section and 1M board too?
Hell, looks like you can get this for the non-M cars too.

Looks like shipping is included?
I just signed up.
Thanks OP.
.
Great to have you onboard. We are doing our absolute best to communicate this deal to the 1M, 1 series and E9X 3 series crowd, but we must respect forum rules, therefore our threads are posted in the commercial sections of those forums where traffic is pretty light. We hope that enthusiasts like yourself who have discovered this unique opportunity will share with fellow car enthusiasts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmx View Post
I don't understand the price difference between 1M/M3. Is the valving different??
Why is the camber plate option different?

Works for me, not really complaining just curious.
Great question. The 1M and E9X M3 suspension designs do have a lot in common, which is precisely why we have bundled these Group Buy's into families. By combining the E9X M3, E9X 3 series, E8X 1M and E8X 1 series into one deal, a larger portion of the BMW community can come together to achieve a substantial discount and dampers can be manufactured more efficiently.

With that said, despite similarities, these JRZ dampers and supporting suspension components from Ground Control and Powerflex are built and optimized specifically for each chassis, and small changes in pricing and product design will reflect that.

- Ryan
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      10-26-2018, 06:50 PM   #37
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Our previous E36/E46 JRZ Group Buy was a success last month, and a production run for those lucky recipients is currently underway. Below you will find some dramatic shots of the raw strut bodies, staged to receive their protective coatings. It is said that mastering a craft has less to do with the end product, and more to do with the process. We completely agree as these are truly a work of art in raw form courtesy of our technical partners in the Netherlands.





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      11-02-2018, 01:00 PM   #38
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Looks like this didn't make it. Still interested in them.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      11-02-2018, 04:10 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
Looks like this didn't make it. Still interested in them.
Same.
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      11-05-2018, 06:21 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
Looks like this didn't make it. Still interested in them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3ANMACHINE View Post
Same.
Thank you all for your participation in our E9X and E8X JRZ Group Buy. Despite the sizeable interest generated, this deal ended with just 3 members pledged, which was not enough required to unlock any of the discount tiers. As a result, unfortunately, no sets will be sold through this deal. The E36/E46 and the F8X JRZ deals were both successful.

However, these customizable JRZ coilover packages for E9X and E8X chassis are offered for purchase directly on our website. We hold the largest BMW JRZ inventory in the country and are able to offer some of the most competitive pricing for these packages even without a Group Buy. If you are still interested in purchasing a top-tier suspension package at affordable pricing, you can visit our website. A major upside is that dampers in stock will ship immediately.
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