BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip / Driving Techniques
 
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-28-2018, 12:56 PM   #1
Candide13
Captain
Candide13's Avatar
202
Rep
699
Posts

Drives: '11 E90 M3 ZCP 6MT AW/FR
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NYC

iTrader: (1)

Camber plates or coil-over conversion kit?

So, last week at Watkins Glen, I finally corded my NT-01 track tires. Not too bad, as they lasted a dozen track days this year, but obviously time to get camber plates. Since then I've looked at the well reviewed Ground Control set, currently retailing for about $500 for stock suspension:

https://groundcontrolstore.com/colle...nt=42135448195

But on the same web site there is a nice looking coil-over conversion kit for $1200:

https://groundcontrolstore.com/colle...nt=35927809347

This includes the camber plates and lots of other goodies, for a reasonable price difference.

So my question is, would it be a good idea to get the conversion kit? Would that be noticeable better on the track than my stock ZCP suspension with camber plates? Or would it compromise the street handling?

I haven't really thought about changing the suspension, but here it seems the opportunity presents itself...

Any pointers welcome..
Appreciate 0
      09-29-2018, 01:57 PM   #2
warp10
Lieutenant Colonel
warp10's Avatar
775
Rep
1,718
Posts

Drives: 2011 M3 Jet Black:ZCP, ZCV, ZP
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Atlanta, Ga

iTrader: (7)

Garage List
2011 M3  [10.00]
2011 28i X3  [0.00]
With the coil over conversion you can corner balance the car which is always a good things and lower the car. Had the ground control coil over conversion and liked it.

Might speed up wear and tear on stock suspension but it's a good inbetween before committing to a Motorsports coilover like MCS.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      09-29-2018, 08:42 PM   #3
kyippee
Lieutenant Colonel
kyippee's Avatar
United_States
1072
Rep
1,617
Posts

Drives: E92 M3, Supra MK5, F44 235GC
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: SF Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

Glad to hear the NT01 can last that long! Getting my first set of them soon, but going to wear out my Hankook RS4 first

If you want to do just camber plates on stock suspension, might be good to look at the Dinan ones. I picked mine up for $138 open box, and I think they're around ~200 new. Negative front camber currently maxes out at -2.55 for me.

$158 new example:
https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3...camber-plates/
Appreciate 0
      09-30-2018, 12:30 AM   #4
roastbeef
Lieutenant General
roastbeef's Avatar
United_States
11567
Rep
12,709
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (4)

i don't know how you're getting 12 days out of nt01's, but i'd say it is rather rare.
__________________
Instagram; @roastbeefmike
Appreciate 0
      10-01-2018, 11:33 AM   #5
Candide13
Captain
Candide13's Avatar
202
Rep
699
Posts

Drives: '11 E90 M3 ZCP 6MT AW/FR
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NYC

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by warp10 View Post
With the coil over conversion you can corner balance the car which is always a good things and lower the car. Had the ground control coil over conversion and liked it.

Might speed up wear and tear on stock suspension but it's a good inbetween before committing to a Motorsports coilover like MCS.
Thanks for the hints! I should have made clear that I am completely ignorant about what handling benefits might come with a coil-over kit. My mod strategy has been to focus on the nut behind the wheel, and only modify hardware when it becomes measurably necessary. That meant Stoptech street/track pads and better brake fluid from day two, a set of track wheels and track tires in year two, finally NT01 R-compounds and PFC-08 endurance brake pads another two years later. The camber plates are indicated now because of the cording of the NT01 that are otherwise still good, so that is the next step.

But I was intrigued at the modest price difference to the GC coil-over kit, which looks attractive. But I'll probably stick to camber plates for next year, given my ignorance of the whole suspension tuning area.

Last edited by Candide13; 10-01-2018 at 11:42 AM..
Appreciate 0
      10-01-2018, 11:35 AM   #6
Candide13
Captain
Candide13's Avatar
202
Rep
699
Posts

Drives: '11 E90 M3 ZCP 6MT AW/FR
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NYC

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpewpew View Post
Glad to hear the NT01 can last that long! Getting my first set of them soon, but going to wear out my Hankook RS4 first

If you want to do just camber plates on stock suspension, might be good to look at the Dinan ones. I picked mine up for $138 open box, and I think they're around ~200 new. Negative front camber currently maxes out at -2.55 for me.

$158 new example:
https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3...camber-plates/
Very true, I looked at those! But I think I want to run a little more camber, -2.8 seems to be the sweet spot from what I read. Not sure whether I want to adjust the plates regularly, more likely will go with a Goldilocks setting for both track and road. But I agree that the Dinan product looks like a solid cost-effective improvement.

Last edited by Candide13; 10-01-2018 at 11:43 AM..
Appreciate 0
      10-01-2018, 11:39 AM   #7
Candide13
Captain
Candide13's Avatar
202
Rep
699
Posts

Drives: '11 E90 M3 ZCP 6MT AW/FR
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NYC

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
i don't know how you're getting 12 days out of nt01's, but i'd say it is rather rare.
I know, I was surprised too, though at least one other instructor here on the East coast got the same wear result. Not sure my driving is any different from the usual, though I do make a conscious effort to steer as little as possible, ie I try to maximize trailing throttle oversteer when approaching the apex and early unwind/power-down after the apex.
Appreciate 1
roastbeef11567.00
      10-01-2018, 11:56 AM   #8
Z K
Major General
Z K's Avatar
1881
Rep
5,504
Posts

Drives: E90 M3, G20 M340i
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (3)

The "coilover" from Ground Control are just adjustable height springs. The main failing of the stock suspension are the shocks themselves. It has very short travel and you end up riding on the bumpstops under any kind of hard cornering.

So unless you plan on setting your "coilover" from Ground Control at near stock height - you're better off with a real coilover suspension that includes shorter aftermarket shocks.

As for camber plates - I'm also using the Dinan ones. Most of the time you never adjust the camber anyway after install. I love how it retains the stock upper mounts so you have the same NVH as stock. Solid upper mounts with pillowballs usually end up clunking after many miles.
__________________
Auto Detailing Enthusiast!
Appreciate 0
      10-01-2018, 12:01 PM   #9
Datka
Lieutenant
Datka's Avatar
450
Rep
465
Posts

Drives: 2009 M3 ,2021 M340i
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Long Island, NY

iTrader: (1)

Which club did you go with? I was there last week too with trackmasters.
Its hard to believe your tires lasted so many days without camber plates.
I am not asking what were your lap times at the glen but I am guessing not very good.
Not only you will save your track tires for more days but your car will handle significantly better which will allow you to take those high speed corners at much higher pace.
__________________
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." Steve MCQueen
Appreciate 0
      10-02-2018, 10:54 AM   #10
Candide13
Captain
Candide13's Avatar
202
Rep
699
Posts

Drives: '11 E90 M3 ZCP 6MT AW/FR
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NYC

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
The "coilover" from Ground Control are just adjustable height springs. The main failing of the stock suspension are the shocks themselves. It has very short travel and you end up riding on the bumpstops under any kind of hard cornering.

So unless you plan on setting your "coilover" from Ground Control at near stock height - you're better off with a real coilover suspension that includes shorter aftermarket shocks.

As for camber plates - I'm also using the Dinan ones. Most of the time you never adjust the camber anyway after install. I love how it retains the stock upper mounts so you have the same NVH as stock. Solid upper mounts with pillowballs usually end up clunking after many miles.
Thanks for the tip about NVH, that gets me thinking... Do you know the camber/toe you achieved in the front with the Sinan plates? Thanks!
Appreciate 0
      10-02-2018, 11:07 AM   #11
Candide13
Captain
Candide13's Avatar
202
Rep
699
Posts

Drives: '11 E90 M3 ZCP 6MT AW/FR
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NYC

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Datka View Post
Which club did you go with? I was there last week too with trackmasters.
Its hard to believe your tires lasted so many days without camber plates.
I am not asking what were your lap times at the glen but I am guessing not very good.
Not only you will save your track tires for more days but your car will handle significantly better which will allow you to take those high speed corners at much higher pace.
I was there with BMW GVC/Boston for a 3-day event, about a hundred instructors and some 230 or so cars overall...probably the biggest event they had there for a while. Haven't heard of trackmasters, unless they are a reincarnation of Trackdaze; hard to keep track of all the special groups!

Yep, speed certainly feeds into the longevity equation. Subjectively, I am doing alright in the fast corners, though there is always room for improvement, so most of my troubles are in the slower corners 7-8-9. Especially trying to get the proper turn in for 7 and 8, I feel like I'm manhandling an elephant that's riding on hockey pucks. Would be great if the increased camber helped with those!

I am also hitting the rev limiter in third gear when approaching 6, 7, and 8. So I either switch to fourth gear for a fraction of a second, or I need to bounce/coast the last bit. Not sure how I can solve this as I am not keen on raising the rev limiter. I guess if I can go faster all around then I can spend more time in fourth gear!

I know you are an expert on WG, so any pointers for a stock car welcome.

Last edited by Candide13; 10-13-2018 at 01:39 PM..
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:23 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST