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08-30-2019, 01:10 PM | #69 | |
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Here is a set of N54 bearings (running engine from wrecked car - borrowed from a post on N54Tech) with 85K miles on them from a junkyard. Questionable oil change intervals - likely followed BMW's long OCI. This is what used bearings should like like, even at far greater mileage.
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08-30-2019, 03:11 PM | #71 |
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08-30-2019, 05:09 PM | #72 |
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08-30-2019, 05:46 PM | #73 | |
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It's not a opinion it's a fact. Take those 215k mile bearings and put them next to one of the 100+ images on the bearing thread on this forum and they show less wear that 80% of them. I agree that this is not direct proof that redline 5w30 is what helped these bearings live such a long life but it does add some credibility to Troyjeup's claim. |
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08-31-2019, 07:07 AM | #74 | |
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Even if 5w50 was used it's entire life, it doesn't say much, just that the tolerance stack on that engine was lucky to be on the looser side. |
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09-05-2019, 05:55 PM | #75 | |
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Bottom line, no oil will overcome a design flaw or tolerance stack. And the bearings shown in this post are totally ruined. Same thing would have happened using Castrol 5W50, 10W60 or 0W40. Oil starvation causes wear.
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09-05-2019, 11:29 PM | #76 |
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Get a clue ....
Design flaw? Ahh OK .... Yep it's flawed alright. An engine (V8, no less) that is smooth past 8200 rpm! I am SICK of the bashing of the #idiotengineers @BMW ! If you're stupid enough to stretch OCIs on the race bred engines in M cars you deserve worn RBs. There, I said it Otherwise use the best stuff on earth, Redline, and change your oil.... If you care enough Otherwise Have at it At the selection in WalMart
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09-06-2019, 01:19 AM | #77 | ||
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What an extreme statement. Thanks for the laugh man. |
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09-06-2019, 01:40 AM | #78 | |||
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09-06-2019, 01:52 AM | #79 | |
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The S65 is not a race engine. It produces high HP per liter, sure, but it is not a race engine. At 104hp/l, it is not really that impressive. A real race engine, such as NASCAR engines, produce ~135hp/l. I will trust professional engine builders over random opinions.
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09-06-2019, 05:17 AM | #80 | |
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09-06-2019, 08:04 AM | #81 | |
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09-06-2019, 08:43 AM | #82 |
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I had to add half a quart after 4000 miles on this change of 5w50
The horror. I’m writing my congressman and I’m filing an ass claction lawsuit My engine has 121k on it and consumes the same amount of oil it has when new. I bet if I did a leak down on it it’d be very very good as would compression and at this age it owes me nothing.. Hopefully it consumes 100% fewer bearings - i am glad I changed them. I’ve held enough rod bearings in my hands to know when something’s not right, even if I can’t identify a cause. Bmw made a great engine in the S65 no doubt, but acting like the bearings were done properly is just foolish Fanboyism. The bearings shouldn’t look like those s85 bearings, ever, no matter the mileage. The 5w50 might have bought time but the fact is BmW screwed this up, on purpose, we can speculate on motive but my belief is they were constrained by existing approved oils, accounting and free maintenance costs, and a design brief that called for getting the cars to 50k after which it would be the CPO vendor/owner’s problem at worst case for the company. They were never going to take a hit in reputation on reliability - it’s a break my wallet M car we should thank our stars it runs at all after the S38 and S14 and S62 long term problems
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09-06-2019, 09:30 AM | #83 | |
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Plus, ok ... some guy on the Internet says "oh use this..it'll solve everything in regards to bearings" - I'm pretty certain that while the bearings may be tight, BMW spent hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars on actual research with petroleum and mechanical engineers that have specialized knowledge and skills to know precisely which kind of oil to use for the S65 and S85 engines. I'm sticking with OEM BMW 10W-60W - I'm not going to deviate from that either. Yeah, it's way expensive but until there is empirical and axiomatic data that specifies you can deviate from what BMW recommends I won't change oil weight or brands. Thank you, Merlin
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09-06-2019, 10:14 AM | #84 |
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The “some guy on the Internet” has rebuilt about 500 S85 and S65. Maybe BMW has rebuilt more, but if they have, they have not offered any suggestions to owners on how to make the motors last longer.
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09-06-2019, 11:27 AM | #85 | |
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Modern synthetics can run longer intervals. This is shown by oil analysis reports where people paid for TBN. Most people, myself included, change oil far sooner than actually required. A quick review of Clevite's information discussing bearing failure modes will support the hypothesis that S65 and S85 bearing wear is indicative of oil starvation, not oil contamination. If viscosity were a major factor causing increased wear, everyone running 0W40 oil should be seeing much greater wear than users of 10W60. This seem to not be the case - or at least we have not seen a rash of 0W40 oil users with worn or spun bearings. FYI: Castrol 10W60 V@40C = 160 Castrol 10W60 V@100C = 22.7 Castrol 10W60 HTHS = 5.2 Mobil 1 0W40 V@40C = 70.8 Mobil 1 0W40 V@100C = 12.9 Mobil 1 0W40 HTHS = 3.6 Redline 5W50 V@40C = 130 Redline 5W50 V@100C = 21 Redline 5w50 HTHS = 5.0 Happy motoring.
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2011 E92 M3 - 6MT, ZCP, ZF LSD, ESS G1, Some other goodies... Last edited by Scharbag; 09-06-2019 at 11:33 AM.. |
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09-07-2019, 02:17 AM | #87 |
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09-07-2019, 09:36 AM | #88 |
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F20C revs to 9000 RPM. 500ml per piston, same as the S65. Here is the bore and stroke:
F20C Bore = 87mm F20C Stroke = 84mm Mean piston speed = 25.2 m/s at 9000RPM S65 Bore = 92mm S65 Stroke = 75.2mm Mean piston speed = 21 m/s at 8400RPM The number of pistons has very little to do with rod bearing dynamics. They either work properly or they do not. I think the S65 is a wonderful engine. I own one. But BMW did not properly design the bottom end of the engine. Nor did they employ assembly techniques that ensure minimum tolerances are maintained. This is not my opinion. This is the opinion of a group of professional engine builders. They have a very detailed thread on the subject that is full of good data that shows engine building best practices were not used by BMW. Physics is physics, regardless if it is built by the Germans. Cheers,
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