Track forum general chit chat.

[SonnyJack]

Originally Posted by turbo_joe

Nice meeting you as well, hope you can get it all sorted out quickly.

Our group had a ton of traffic and way too big of a variety when it came to skill level. My best was sitting at consistent 1.25's for most of the weekend, wanted to be faster but the temps and traffic were not allowing it.

A few times I wanted to run the blue Mustang off the damn track, no clue how some of those drivers ever made it out of novice group.

I had forgotten about the blue Mustang!!!! AAAAAHHHHH!!!!

The instructor I mentioned rode with me for one session and his exact words were...."who the hell promoted this clown out of the novice group?" We were stuck behind the blue Mustang at the time.

The #40 white miata was my nemesis. I spent one lap behind him and a second miata for the entire front straight. One of them was going about 100 mph and the other one about 101 mph. The pass took forever! Pure madness!

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by dparm

99% of the time, it is safer to simply straighten the wheel and drive off into the grass. It was a tough habit for me to break -- instinctively going, "oh shit, better save it!" and instead doing a 180 across the track in traffic. I'd much rather end up with some grass in the radiator and a cracked splitter than getting T-boned by the guy behind me.

Just my two cents.

Agreed.
I have a prime example of being in the scenario of "the person behind" yesterday at Cresson. Thankfully we were going slow enough and I knew the driver of the car in front of me and his experience level (novice), as well as the two drivers that were also directly behind me. The way it happened I could have easily T-boned his pristine 993 Turbo if I had been not paying attention or if we had been going faster, etc. At the time I was cruising in 4th to get some cool-down in and letting my other friends in the cars behind catch up so we could play around a bit when we caught up to him. (This was a member's day at the track btw, there was maybe 7 cars total on track at this moment in time)
In this case though it's tough, putting a car like that in the dirt is not something I would want to do either. I told him a dedicated cheaper track car might be a less stressful/more fun choice.

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Let us know the outcome either way Kelse92. Curious to know if this is possible.

Originally Posted by tsk94

KW can probably rebuild them for you with different valving if you want. The entry level, off the shelf, competition setup for the E92 M3 from KW is basically a CS that's revalved. I'm sure they could revalve your CS's for you.

If you want I can give you contact info for someone at KW USA that I dealt with for my competition setup. I'm sure he can let you know if they can revalve your CS's, the cost and what options are available. Just send me a PM and I'll send over his contact info if you want it.

Thanks for the tip! I will reach out to them soon and find out, I'll PM ya later.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by Kelse92

Looked like he was way too late with the steering to go straight off anyways. That spin was probably inevitable.

Guessing that anvil behind the rear wheels didn't help.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Looked like he was way too late with the steering to go straight off anyways. That spin was probably inevitable.

Guessing that anvil behind the rear wheels didn't help.

That corner was slick for me every fucking lap when I was there earlier this summer. I don't know what it is about the pavement there, but the car would always want to slide...and it isn't even a very fast or unusual corner.

The other part of having an escape plan is what Kelse92 was alluding to: not having target fixation that makes you drive into the very vehicle you want to avoid.

[slicer]

Originally Posted by kyippee

slicer Amazing pics you posted! Do you have width comparisons with toyo RR? I hear RR might be wider and it makes me a bit nervous. 295/30/18 on both sets. Won't be mounting the RR 'till late August

I have not tested the RR. It's on my list!

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by Kelse92

looks like a few factors- slow hands, and maybe weight shift from throttle lift.

although i had a reduction of seat time in the last year, being on the forums and being exposed to track videos does help with "training." understanding what causes bad situations helps a bit. i had two "offs" at buttonwillow last february and once my brain calculated the car wasn't turning enough, i just did a voluntary wheel straightening into the dirt. thinking about it, you're simply going off on your terms, rather than trying to control a car that you already lost and going off sideways or with the wheels still turned.

[fsmtnbiker]

Originally Posted by kyippee

slicer Amazing pics you posted! Do you have width comparisons with toyo RR? I hear RR might be wider and it makes me a bit nervous. 295/30/18 on both sets. Won't be mounting the RR 'till late August

I have the 295 RR's on 10.5" wheels just sitting around if you want to compare/test fit. I think they're slightly wider than the 295 AR1 but I actually still have one AR1 mounted also, I can check.

[fsmtnbiker]

Originally Posted by Kelse92

Haha the apex he chose was a lot earlier in the corner than the actual apex, and he's pointed the wrong direction when he gets there. Good stuff, good looking out on your part. A lot of people will get impatient in that scenario and start to pass on the inside as he tracks out, which goes bad quickly.

[kayha12]

Originally Posted by XKxRome0ox

can you post more photos of your car?
interested in seeing the full color scheme

If you have instagram, check out my page @kamphotography_khoi it's public and lots of photos there!

[Bartledoo]

Then you have the unexpected case of a Miata missing an upshift at the apex lol. I get a lot of inside point bys there, but he wasn't having it!

[XKxRome0ox]

Originally Posted by kayha12

If you have instagram, check out my page @kamphotography_khoi it's public and lots of photos there!

awesome
love the color scheme

[Richbot]

Originally Posted by fsmtnbiker

Haha the apex he chose was a lot earlier in the corner than the actual apex, and he's pointed the wrong direction when he gets there. Good stuff, good looking out on your part. A lot of people will get impatient in that scenario and start to pass on the inside as he tracks out, which goes bad quickly.

Always remember the tried and true process for tracking 911's -

1) Dive bomb to an early apex
2) Crank the steering wheel real hard
3) Stab the throttle aggressively and repeatedly
4) Make claim on track insurance
5) Buy new 911
6) Repeat

[LeveragedTiger]

Third day at Mission Raceway was yesterday. Was running in the advanced group which had at highest count, 4 cars on track. Lots of time to get some hot/aggressive laps in, but then do some cool down laps as well and try and sight lines a little better.

I ended up having my first real spin despite the space. Turn 4 is a fast sweeper to the left that requires an aggressive trailbrake (my dumb foot says 40-50%) to get the rear-end to swing around and carry momentum. Unfortunately my tires blew up to 41 PSI so the rear end decided to come all the way around on me. Nice and slow spin though so I just rolled onto some grass. Always fun to get away with something like that.

Was running Hawk DTC-70s on OEM brakes and loving it - initial bite is excellent, and they haul down well even through the middle of the braking phase. Unfortunately they seem to have a habit of turning into dust at a rapid pace - can't even get 3 full days out of a front set. Accidentally went down to the backing plate. Ooooops!



On a serious note - the front left brake pad wore out faster than the front right. Mission Raceway is a counter-clockwise circuit. Is this normal? Or indicative of poor braking technique? Something mechanical?

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by LeveragedTiger

Third day at Mission Raceway was yesterday. Was running in the advanced group which had at highest count, 4 cars on track. Lots of time to get some hot/aggressive laps in, but then do some cool down laps as well and try and sight lines a little better.

I ended up having my first real spin despite the space. Turn 4 is a fast sweeper to the left that requires an aggressive trailbrake (my dumb foot says 40-50%) to get the rear-end to swing around and carry momentum. Unfortunately my tires blew up to 41 PSI so the rear end decided to come all the way around on me. Nice and slow spin though so I just rolled onto some grass. Always fun to get away with something like that.

Was running Hawk DTC-70s on OEM brakes and loving it - initial bite is excellent, and they haul down well even through the middle of the braking phase. Unfortunately they seem to have a habit of turning into dust at a rapid pace - can't even get 3 full days out of a front set. Accidentally went down to the backing plate. Ooooops!



On a serious note - the front left brake pad wore out faster than the front right. Mission Raceway is a counter-clockwise circuit. Is this normal? Or indicative of poor braking technique? Something mechanical?

It is normal to have slight differences in wear between sides with brake pads after heavy track use. Nothing to be worried about.

I'm fairly familiar with Mission from people I know that track out there. I'm a bit confused by your comment regarding trail braking into turn 4 - especially with as much pedal pressure as you suspect your using (50%). Turns 1-3 are good examples of turns that would be beneficial to trail brake into. Faster sweepers are usually the type of corner where you wouldn't be trail braking into - especially with that much brake pressure at the apex. You'd likely be faster and have the car more stable if you were to get almost all your braking done in a straight line before turn 4, turn in while rolling in speed and get back to full throttle around the apex. Turn 5 at my home track is quite similar to turn 4 at Mission and the latter proved to be faster, more consistent and more confidence inspiring (in this type of corner) - and the data showed it was faster. So something to just keep in mind and maybe try next time out!

[dparm]

Originally Posted by LeveragedTiger

Was running Hawk DTC-70s on OEM brakes and loving it - initial bite is excellent, and they haul down well even through the middle of the braking phase. Unfortunately they seem to have a habit of turning into dust at a rapid pace - can't even get 3 full days out of a front set. Accidentally went down to the backing plate. Ooooops!



On a serious note - the front left brake pad wore out faster than the front right. Mission Raceway is a counter-clockwise circuit. Is this normal? Or indicative of poor braking technique? Something mechanical?

The DTCs are a solid choice, been using them for years. Cheap and consistent performance. You're seeing excessive consumption and smearing due to heat. Swap to a BBK or at least the PFC DD rotors and you'll find pads last much longer.


How much pad taper do you have?

[Bartledoo]

For a counter-clockwise circuit I would expect the right front pad to wear out faster. I guess it depends on the specifics of the braking zones and turns, but I would assume more braking into left turns for CC.

[Dreamer99]

Originally Posted by tsk94

It is normal to have slight differences in wear between sides with brake pads after heavy track use. Nothing to be worried about.

I'm fairly familiar with Mission from people I know that track out there. I'm a bit confused by your comment regarding trail braking into turn 4 - especially with as much pedal pressure as you suspect your using (50%). Turns 1-3 are good examples of turns that would be beneficial to trail brake into. Faster sweepers are usually the type of corner where you wouldn't be trail braking into - especially with that much brake pressure at the apex. You'd likely be faster and have the car more stable if you were to get almost all your braking done in a straight line before turn 4, turn in while rolling in speed and get back to full throttle around the apex. Turn 5 at my home track is quite similar to turn 4 at Mission and the latter proved to be faster, more consistent and more confidence inspiring - and the data showed it was faster. So something to just keep in mind and maybe try next time out!

Yes, I brake in a straight line before turn 4 then throttle maintenance to balance the car going across the inside curb.

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by Dreamer99

Yes, I brake in a straight line before turn 4 then throttle maintenance to balance the car going across the inside curb.

Do you have a data logger?

[LeveragedTiger]

Originally Posted by tsk94

It is normal to have slight differences in wear between sides with brake pads after heavy track use. Nothing to be worried about.

I'm fairly familiar with Mission from people I know that track out there. I'm a bit confused by your comment regarding trail braking into turn 4 - especially with as much pedal pressure as you suspect your using (50%). Turns 1-3 are good examples of turns that would be beneficial to trail brake into. Faster sweepers are usually the type of corner where you wouldn't be trail braking into - especially with that much brake pressure at the apex. You'd likely be faster and have the car more stable if you were to get almost all your braking done in a straight line before turn 4, turn in while rolling in speed and get back to full throttle around the apex. Turn 5 at my home track is quite similar to turn 4 at Mission and the latter proved to be faster, more consistent and more confidence inspiring (in this type of corner) - and the data showed it was faster. So something to just keep in mind and maybe try next time out!

I should probably reword. Trail brake is about 40-50% on turn in, then bleed off to light throttle through the apex like Dreamer99 said.

Fair point in trying the corner with less aggressive braking and see how it goes. I seem to have a bias to thinking if the car feels loose, and I’m as fast as possible.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by LeveragedTiger

I should probably reword. Trail brake is about 40-50% on turn in, then bleed off to light throttle through the apex like Dreamer99 said.

Fair point in trying the corner with less aggressive braking and see how it goes. I seem to have a bias to thinking if the car feels loose, and I’m as fast as possible.

Thanks for the clarification. That makes more sense and sounds reasonable.

Just something to try based on my experience in a very similar corner in the same car. It might work better for you, so I figured I'd mention it.

I agree that's it can be deceiving to think the absolute 'limit' is when the car is moving around, but often times a more settled and balanced platform into and through the corners allows more grip and thus allows you to carry more speed and results in faster sector and lap times. There is a very good podcast on Speed Secrets with Colin Braun - How to Drive Fast Corners Fast, where Colin explains how often times, into fast corners, it's advantageous to roll speed into the turn (ie. not trailing the brakes) to allow the platform of the car to be more settled. This allows you to carry more speed in and get to full throttle sooner compared to being pitched on the outside front tire while trail braking and having the rear end unweighted. Bottom line though, there is more then 1 way to be fast through a given corner and that's part of the beauty of the sport.

[fsmtnbiker]

Originally Posted by fsmtnbiker

I have the 295 RR's on 10.5" wheels just sitting around if you want to compare/test fit. I think they're slightly wider than the 295 AR1 but I actually still have one AR1 mounted also, I can check.

kyippee the 295 RRs and 295 AR1s are identical in contact patch/tread width and overall height. The AR1 has a rim protector that protrudes a bit, which the RR does not have. But as far as fitment, they should be exactly the same. If the AR1s don't rub much on everything, the RRs won't either.