650hp 2013 Shelby GT priced to be $55k

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

You sound like a badge whore.

You realize that this car put up a time that is 24 seconds faster than the M3? Do you get how far that is? You wouldn't even see tailights nevermind get to stare at them.

For the price, you could spend a few grand on some interior enhancements and still be far cheaper.

The Sti and Evo are cheap compared to luxury cars....because they are not luxury cars and are significantly cheaper.

The GT-R is cheap?

Have you been in one? Driven one? On the track? It's a $112K car that, while not for everyone's taste, is quite nice and does things, performance wise, that very, very few cars can compete with and nothing at it's price point.

And fyi, most people aren't daily driving their Z06's or Vipers. They own them because they are a fawk load of fun to drive and can wipe the table with most everything out there.

I'm less concerned with your limited English vocabulary and more concerned with your limited car knowledge and lack of perspective.

I only meant that STIs , Evos and GT-Rs are cheap IN PRICE compared to other cars that offer the same performance but they look good anyway , compared to Mustangs that are also cheap IN PRICE for the performance but for no good reason , they look really cheesy in the way they are designed !

And yes the GT-R is cheap IN PRICE compared to his direct rivals like 911TT and R8 V10 but it does'nt mean that it's ugly and cheap looking as opposite to a Corvette or Vyper ! Do you really think I did'nt knew the GT-R was a beast !!?

And by the way I never questioned the effiency of the Shelby on the track , but if you want to talk about it , 24sec is a lot ,but put 650hp in a M3 ,wider wheels and tires, ask Brembo to put some big ass brakes and big part of the job is already done ,nothing scientific about it !! And no I'm not a badge whore , it's more the philosiphy of the germain construcors that I like, all germains , also like the Japs , in fact it's only the way the americans make their car that I don't like ,to me ,it just look cheesy ! Sorry if I don't think like you , and happy for you if you can be satisfied with a Mustang !

[dizzyj]

Get the base model for 45, gut it and throw in a cage. I wonder what you can get the weight down to

[lcrain]

I wish these threads wouldn't always go to sh!t with people saying "oh my m3 is so much better and nicer, the mustang doesn't have the soul of my m3 blah blah blah." Yes, everyone here spent more money on their M3 and its a very nice and capable car. Cars don't have souls, they are just cars.

I don't mean to offend anyone, but why can't a forum ever just take things at face value. The OP didn't post this thread to convince us to sell our BMWs and go buy a mustang because it performs better with a lower price. It could be argued that the M3 and Mustang aren't really shopped by the same person. Someone buying a 35k Mustang GT isn't in the market for a 70k car. Maybe people cross-shop the shelby with the M3, but that might be a stretch as well. The M3 is one of the most well balanced cars ever made, you get bench-mark performance when you want it and a sense of luxury and refinement when you want it. You also pay out-the-ass to get all that. The fact of the matter is that many view the M3 as a benchmark. I know I do, its been ingrained in me ever since I fell in love with the e36 and e46 right when it came out when I was like 12.

Most mustang owners could not care any less about nappa leather or carbon fiber roofs or all the other awesome stuff M owners love. They just want to own the fastest car on the block. Saying that they aren't good handling cars is not a valid argument either. The fact that they can make this car handle so well with a soild rear axle is unheard of.

[M3 Montreal]

I believe the 2014 Mustang is going with independent rear suspension... When that happens I would actually consider a GT500.

If Chevy could lower the weight of their ZL1 to around 3800 pounds I would buy that in an instant even with the lower HP and Tq when compared to the GT500. That 3rd gen magnetic suspension and all the track goodies they out in the ZL1 makes it amazing.

Who cares if the interior is not the nicest... It's not my daily driver anyways.

These are exciting times!

And to the poster who mentioned fuel consumption on page 1... Get real and find out before you talk because our M3's at 414hp burn more fuel than this 650hp GT500!

[Straight Dave]

Yea if I had a choice between this and the M.... Let's just say it would come down to the wire.

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by THE TECH

Too bad it will always still be a Ford.

You mean the Ford that beat up on Ferrari back in the sixties at LeMans? The makers of the more current Ford GT?

I always love it when shallow folks who relate their image and self-worth with their cars post on here.

A good car is a good car, regardless of the maker.

Bruce

[Thrumcap]

Originally Posted by Straight Dave

Yea if I had a choice between this and the M.... Let's just say it would come down to the wire.

The Ford is clearly impressive and a huge bang for the buck. As for refinement though, could it really be used comfortably as a daily driver like the M3?

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by lcrain

I wish these threads wouldn't always go to sh!t with people saying "oh my m3 is so much better and nicer, the mustang doesn't have the soul of my m3 blah blah blah." Yes, everyone here spent more money on their M3 and its a very nice and capable car. Cars don't have souls, they are just cars.

I don't mean to offend anyone, but why can't a forum ever just take things at face value. The OP didn't post this thread to convince us to sell our BMWs and go buy a mustang because it performs better with a lower price. It could be argued that the M3 and Mustang aren't really shopped by the same person. Someone buying a 35k Mustang GT isn't in the market for a 70k car. Maybe people cross-shop the shelby with the M3, but that might be a stretch as well. The M3 is one of the most well balanced cars ever made, you get bench-mark performance when you want it and a sense of luxury and refinement when you want it. You also pay out-the-ass to get all that. The fact of the matter is that many view the M3 as a benchmark. I know I do, its been ingrained in me ever since I fell in love with the e36 and e46 right when it came out when I was like 12.

Most mustang owners could not care any less about nappa leather or carbon fiber roofs or all the other awesome stuff M owners love. They just want to own the fastest car on the block. Saying that they aren't good handling cars is not a valid argument either. The fact that they can make this car handle so well with a soild rear axle is unheard of.

All I wanted to bring to the table was that Mustangs , Camaros and Challengers are really cheap cars (and ugly as well), that's why you can get 650hp for that price ! Forget the M3 ,it was just a exemple, sorry if I happen to own one , all I meant was that any company that put so little budget in the quality of materiels and luxury can build a 650hp car that handle for 55k ! I would probably buy one , if it looked good , not the case for these american cars ! The Ford GT is the only american car that I find attractive !

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by SehrSchnell

Totally agree! Mustangs have tons of soul - Shelby's are amazing!

In fact , he said that cars have no soul !

[lcrain]

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

All I wanted to bring to the table was that Mustangs , Camaros and Challengers are really cheap cars (and ugly as well), that's why you can get 650hp for that price ! Forget the M3 ,it was just a exemple, sorry if I happen to own one , all I meant was that any company that put so little budget in the quality of materiels and luxury can build a 650hp car that handle for 55k ! I would probably buy one , if it looked good , not the case for these american cars ! The Ford GT is the only american car that I find attractive !

Looks are subjective, so lets take that out of the equation. I agree that compared to a BMW the interior fit and finish feels cheap. Thats also why it costs substantially less. We are basically saying the same thing here, no argument. If they put napa leather in there and spent some extra money on a better design team to design a better interior layout then it would likely cost the same as an M3 if not more.

Also something to consider is the price and quality of labor and how that corresponds with the price of a car. Germany is the most expensive country in the world for labor, and there is a reason for that. The US is up there.

[lcrain]

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

In fact , he said that cars have no soul !

I meant that comment literally, kind of in a sarcastic way. Obviously I think BMW M cars have that extra something that is hard to quantify. Just feels perfect. But I think the mustang has soul too. Ford just let it slip away in the 90s and 2000s. I feel they are headed in the right direction to get it back.

[turtlegt]

Originally Posted by lcrain

I wish these threads wouldn't always go to sh!t with people saying "oh my m3 is so much better and nicer, the mustang doesn't have the soul of my m3 blah blah blah." Yes, everyone here spent more money on their M3 and its a very nice and capable car. Cars don't have souls, they are just cars.

I agree with this - but I also would say that a car can inspire your love and enjoyment of driving. For me, a mustang doesn't do this. Neither does a Camaro. Or a Honda Civic. In the past 5 years, I've driven more than 300,000 miles, so for me, I prefer a car with some refinement and build quality. I've gotten to drive several iterations of the Mustang, Camaro, several foreign and domestic sedans, etc., and few come close to the overall driving and ownership experience of my E92 335i, E90 M3, and E70 X5. I'm not a brand loyalist, as I've owned 8 different brands of cars, and will buy a superior product regardless of badge or brand (for the most part).

Everyone weighs different aspects of the car differently though - so the person buying the car sees value (or settles) somewhere. I'm not threatened by a mustang having 650 HP.. so I don't see the need to bash a mustang - but I do vote with my wallet. Healthy competition is generally good for consumers.

[boostedM]

-WARNING- Long winded reply ahead And maybe a little


I think Ford has legitimately stepped their game up. Even without IRS, they are matching and beating lap times of the M3 with the GT and the 302 Boss, and will blister it with the GT500. I hate to admit with the amount of money I have in my car, I will still be getting walked by stock GT500s lol. But honestly, I think a lot of this "American cars are built like crap" mentality is coming from hearsay. I genuinely like the feel of the new GT, 302, Z06, and ZR1. I'm comfortable in the Challenger, but I find the interior very plain and boring. The only one I genuinely do not like is the Camaro. It has greatly improved in the ZL1, but still not up to par. The steering wheels feels better, but I still think the shift knob feels awkward, visibility is terrible, the center console is bizzare (and yes, cheap) and WHY WHY WHY is there still no nav option?? Those are all cars I feel confident commenting on because I've been lucky enough to have a chance to drive them all and really get a feel for them. Reviews seem good on the CTS-V as well (although I can't stand the look of the coupe, I think the sedan is gorgeous). Times are changing guys. American cars are back in the game. Take the chance to drive one and you'll see.

[Buck24bmw]

I haven't posted in a while but this thread cracks me up

I currently have a modded 2011 GT500 with all the options and my dad has a E90 M3, I can say this; for everyday use, if I could have one car the M3 would be it, no question about it, it is the best all around car out there for the money. You can tell where the money goes when you sit in it, no question about it, lovely car.

Like others have said most are not daily driving a ZL1 or a GT500 and if your looking for a fun weekend/garage queen, I have ~600rwhp that with my suspension mods, hooks and needless to say is quite fun to drive. I have a daily driver so best solution for my HP addition was this car and it has been great fun.

For some to come in here and just bash all American cars is just sad and is why certain stereotypes exist amongst all different car companies and their drivers, I don't have a bad thing to say about any car, we hear all the time that a GTR is "just" a Nissan or a ZR1 is still just a Chevy. It's quite sad

[crabman]

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

I only meant that STIs , Evos and GT-Rs are cheap IN PRICE compared to other cars that offer the same performance but they look good anyway , compared to Mustangs that are also cheap IN PRICE for the performance but for no good reason , they look really cheesy in the way they are designed !

And yes the GT-R is cheap IN PRICE compared to his direct rivals like 911TT and R8 V10 but it does'nt mean that it's ugly and cheap looking as opposite to a Corvette or Vyper ! Do you really think I did'nt knew the GT-R was a beast !!?

And by the way I never questioned the effiency of the Shelby on the track , but if you want to talk about it , 24sec is a lot ,but put 650hp in a M3 ,wider wheels and tires, ask Brembo to put some big ass brakes and big part of the job is already done ,nothing scientific about it !! And no I'm not a badge whore , it's more the philosiphy of the germain construcors that I like, all germains , also like the Japs , in fact it's only the way the americans make their car that I don't like ,to me ,it just look cheesy ! Sorry if I don't think like you , and happy for you if you can be satisfied with a Mustang !

I used to be able to walk out to my garage and directly compare my wifes bmw to my corvette. Paint was about equal. Dash looked like the stuff came out of the same factory. It had a little different grain but felt the same, looked the same, got the same white smudges when you touched it. Fit inside and out was about the same.

You did have to look harder on the bmw to find some cheesy bits than you did in the vette and I would give the victory there to bmw. Thats about it though. My corvettes never broke down once. My wifes car broke down on the way home from the new car delivery. BMW was unable to fix it and actually bought the car back. The replacement was a world of hurt too though so it wasn't exactly smooth sailing from there. While every thing in the corvettes actually worked and kept working in the BMW not so much. My wifes cup holders broke so many times she stopped using them and she got one of those little cup holder thingies at walmart to stick her coffee in. That one comes to mind because the passenger cupholder wouldn't stay closed and she eventually settled for a wad of paper wedged into the crack to keep it closed rather than waste her time with another trip to the dealer. It was so in your face. lol There you were in your "high class well engineered" BMW with a wad of paper holding the cup holder closed and by your left knee an el cheapo walmart chunk of plastic which was almost certainly made in China doing the job that overmastered the engineering team at BMW. This is to say nothing of the bigger ticket items like the transmission that died. Or the steering rack that died. Did I mention weeks (no not a typo) at the dealership trying to get it programmed? Fully ten percent of the mileage on her car was going to the dealership to get something fixed. It would have been more but some of the journeys were via flatbed. Meanwhile the crappily engineered American cheesy corvettes with their cheesy cheap crappy parts did one track day after another while otherwise having the bejesus flogged out of them every time I could and somehow all without having to make one trip on a flatbed despite their utter cheap crappy cheesiness. Of course my wifes car had its tough days too, she drove to the store and sometimes loaded up as many as five or six bags of groceries in it plus if I recall rightly she once got in the fast lane and passed a car on the freeway. I can go on but I'm hopeful that you're starting to get my drift.

On the corvette forum there was once an argument over what makes a car guy. After much going back and forth what stood out that pretty much no one would argue with is that car guys know something about them and they like cars, all cars. Because they like cars they give cred where its due even if the car in question isn't their cup of tea. You don't much seem like a car guy to me. You don't seem to know what you are talking about and you give no respect to cars that have earned it in many more ways than just posting some big hp numbers.

[Erie Von Otto]

Mustang, Challenger, Camaro, Corvette, all beautiful machines. I bet the GT500 is to drive... One day, my (now 6 yr old) son and I will be working on his project American muscle car in the garage...

[understeer]

[QUOTE=Alex07M3;11555245But put 650hp in a M3 ,wider wheels and tires, ask Brembo to put some big ass brakes and big part of the job is already done ,nothing scientific about it !! [/QUOTE]

Makes perfect sense!

(I am not exactly sure who it makes sense to, but probably someone)

[HBspeed]

Originally Posted by crabman

On the corvette forum there was once an argument over what makes a car guy. After much going back and forth what stood out that pretty much no one would argue with is that car guys know something about them and they like cars, all cars. Because they like cars they give cred where its due even if the car in question isn't their cup of tea. You don't much seem like a car guy to me. You don't seem to know what you are talking about and you give no respect to cars that have earned it in many more ways than just posting some big hp numbers.

Welcome to the world of rich guys posing as "car guys" who put down everything other than what they drive to compensate for their personal insecurities.

[M3maniac20]

People buy BMWs and other cars for different purposes. Just because it isn't a BMW or European doesnt mean it's not a good car. Ford makes an awesome product. I have a Raptor and would buy another ford product in the future. And I almost bought the GT500 before the M3 and in the end the m3 is more my style and what I like. Both are great cars.

[Alex07M3]

Wow , you guys are really taking this too seriously , it's just my opinion , for me ,Mustangs ,Challengers , Camaros , ect... are all great cars , if you're a nostalgic person with low budget ,me , I'm not(nostalgic) , I prefer to look ahead instead of behind. American companys tryed to build sports cars of their year , they just could'nt compete so they found their own niche in the past ,good for them , it does'nt mean they make bad cars but... I just don't think it's normal that a 1965 Mustang is more desirable then a 2012 Mustang and that's what they bet on to sell the new Mustang , they make you think that it's almost like having the real one !

Also, stop thinkink that I'm saying that mustang sucks more then M3 , I'm just saying that Mustang sucks !

For me ,this is inovation:


and this is immitation:

Maybe if I was American , something in me would tell me that these cars are nice , but no , to my unbiased eyes , american cars look cheesy , no matter how they perform ! There's a reason why americans buy cars from every where in the world and why american cars generally don't sell well anyware else then in the states , people prefer to pay for quality then quantity !! Just my .02cent , don't mean to offend anyone , to each his own taste !

[Giggs]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

You sound like a badge whore.

You realize that this car put up a time that is 24 seconds faster than the M3? Do you get how far that is? You wouldn't even see tailights nevermind get to stare at them.

For the price, you could spend a few grand on some interior enhancements and still be far cheaper.

The Sti and Evo are cheap compared to luxury cars....because they are not luxury cars and are significantly cheaper.

The GT-R is cheap?

Have you been in one? Driven one? On the track? It's a $112K car that, while not for everyone's taste, is quite nice and does things, performance wise, that very, very few cars can compete with and nothing at it's price point.

And fyi, most people aren't daily driving their Z06's or Vipers. They own them because they are a fawk load of fun to drive and can wipe the table with most everything out there.

I'm less concerned with your limited English vocabulary and more concerned with your limited car knowledge and lack of perspective.

Mustangs are ugly. I dont care how well it performs, you dont spend $50k+ on an ugly car.

Edit: Even if you spend a few thousand on interior improvements its still an ugly ass Mustang.

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by Giggs

Mustangs are ugly. I dont care how well it performs, you dont spend $50k+ on an ugly car.

WOW I should've said it like that the first time !! LOL