A Public Service Message to All M3Post Members...

[foosh]

Amchosto,

That was very kind of you to say. Thanks. I didn't say I was leaving permanently, I just find myself less inclined to participate because there isn't much content lately that motivates my participation.

Tut,

According to what one of the moderators said publicly, he was given a 30-day suspension, and will be free to come back soon. The question is, "will he?"

I am aware of what happened from private communications, which I will not disclose because I've pledged to keep them private. Moreover, in keeping with forum rules (moderator's right to enforce certain rules), I will not discuss my view of who was right and who was wrong. Having said that, I do value honesty greatly.

[chungdae]

I indeed praise the OP as well. The people here all have a same passion and love: the high performance characteristics of our vehicle(s) and should be considered as brothers. If anyone has had or have an issue it should be addressed to us so we know who to deal with and who not to deal with. I, and others cruise through the Vendor Comments/Review/Feedback Forum and post to warn people what and who to look out for. I suggest we all do the same more often to look after one another.

[Swancoat]

Originally Posted by MMMorish

You're right about this and I don't understand why. Either most of the "younger" guys on this forum had their M3's given to them, or I'm in the wrong business. My M3 is the most expensive car I've ever owned, $90K+ Canadian and I get discusted by the price of the mods on this car. So much so that I think twice, even three times before spending a penny on this car. For crying out loud, a matte black M3 badge cost me 50 bucks! It's a cheap piece of plastic!! Where do all these younger members get the money to mod their car??

Word. This place is just like e46fanatics was about 5 or 6 years ago.

[JCtx]

Originally Posted by foosh

I will not discuss my view of who was right and who was wrong.

Can I take a wild guess?

[Tio///M]

Well to add my buyer beware....be careful and ensure you get a nice tight fitment on CF side gills....when I did over 130mph it would come out. I had a guy ask me if I was in an accident and I said no, then he pointed out to my CF side gill hanging by the turn signal wire....needles to say I popped it back in and then forgot about it and took the M3 up to 170mph and it completely came off thus rendering me to purchase another one for 88 dollars bcuz the manufacturer stated that they never had any problems like this before. Honestly I think its BS, I had the dealer in Germany install it and they don't cut corner...just my experience....you've been warned.

[novablackm3]

this is interesting.

just the other day i posted how a new brand of wheels looked like a knock off of an original wheel and 2 days later the thread is deleted. I've personally been a mega mod and been in the car forums days 1999~2000+ honda-acura.net acura-tl.com acura-cl.com now acurazine clubrsx clublexus tons of bmw boards and also met TONS of friends and business associates through car forums.

Believe it or not when i started it wasn't for the money as we had a core group donate and help keep the site up ( most were IT networking guys) we had donations and other means, anyhow i realize now a days its more for profit which i can't really blame either.

However sites such as bimmerboard / roadfly / e38.org where truly dedicated to fixing oem problems first and then mods, since the m3 is so new this site seems to be dedicated more towards commercial interest first then show off what my daddy bought me.

If you can afford an m3 most likely you have a decent job, worked hard for it and have disposable income, however if you check the classified section you have these Orange county kids selling stuff on the classified sections and nickeling diming over 10~50 bucks obviously its not your car ..(yes you could be super frugal with your hard earned money) if your salary isn't 3x~5x the cost of your car then your living beyond your means simply to impress IMO . similar calculation i use for home cost is 3x~5x your salary

While i do live on this forum daily its for leisure and meeting people with similar interest.

But without a doubt this place is more vendor friendly (you have to if you are running it as a business) mods on this forum WILL jump on quick to defend vendors and delete/move post.

On a different note I can say i truly am a car nut and do enjoy modding the car and working on it but i have a day job to support this sickness. i really don't gain anything other than pleasure and informing others.

I also know not everyone will post a great review but the minute you have a problem all hell breaks loose and public vendor bashing starts.

the forums can make or break a vendor not like the days where you simply advertised on superstreet do a cover spread and everyone buys your stuff

I've had my share of problems with mods in the years but i always try to resolve it w/ the vendor first and if things dont work out then ask for public support.

[FStop7]

Originally Posted by Tio///M

Well to add my buyer beware....be careful and ensure you get a nice tight fitment on CF side gills....when I did over 130mph it would come out. I had a guy ask me if I was in an accident and I said no, then he pointed out to my CF side gill hanging by the turn signal wire....needles to say I popped it back in and then forgot about it and took the M3 up to 170mph and it completely came off thus rendering me to purchase another one for 88 dollars bcuz the manufacturer stated that they never had any problems like this before. Honestly I think its BS, I had the dealer in Germany install it and they don't cut corner...just my experience....you've been warned.

Were you racing the 204mph guy or are you related to him?

[Splinter4784]

Originally Posted by FStop7

Were you racing the 204mph guy or are you related to him?

Unnecessary Post

This is an interesting discussion. Let me start my rant by saying that I am the first to realize that without vendors, and an active market place created by a given forum, there is no forum. These things aren't run for the sake of public service.

However, I have been in other car forums where the environment is more self-policing in terms of wild vendor claims. What I mean is that on most car forums, there is a large group of technically-knowledgeable people, who actually understand automotive technology and how various automotive systems work.

This forum has fewer of the above than any I've ever participated in. It seems to me there is a higher proportion of younger people, who don't understand much more than how to press a button to start it, and steer the wheel in the direction they want to go. That seems to represent more and more of the BMW M3 and 3-series demographic.

Vendors understand this, and they know what they can get away with. There is less policing by knowledgeable members here, so they run rampant.

I've been withdrawing from here lately because there seems to be less and less interesting discussion. In fact, lately, there has been very little to interest me into even opening a thread. There are only a few people here I like to be involved in discussions with, and LMB was one of them. It wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't come back.

I do stop by daily if only to check on when my RAC Monolite Wheels might (or have) arrive(d).

Agreed

[MMMorish]

Originally Posted by novablackm3

this is interesting.

just the other day i posted how a new brand of wheels looked like a knock off of an original wheel and 2 days later the thread is deleted. I've personally been a mega mod and been in the car forums days 1999~2000+ honda-acura.net acura-tl.com acura-cl.com now acurazine clubrsx clublexus tons of bmw boards and also met TONS of friends and business associates through car forums.

Believe it or not when i started it wasn't for the money as we had a core group donate and help keep the site up ( most were IT networking guys) we had donations and other means, anyhow i realize now a days its more for profit which i can't really blame either.

However sites such as bimmerboard / roadfly / e38.org where truly dedicated to fixing oem problems first and then mods, since the m3 is so new this site seems to be dedicated more towards commercial interest first then show off what my daddy bought me.

If you can afford an m3 most likely you have a decent job, worked hard for it and have disposable income, however if you check the classified section you have these Orange county kids selling stuff on the classified sections and nickeling diming over 10~50 bucks obviously its not your car ..(yes you could be super frugal with your hard earned money) if your salary isn't 3x~5x the cost of your car then your living beyond your means simply to impress IMO . similar calculation i use for home cost is 3x~5x your salary

While i do live on this forum daily its for leisure and meeting people with similar interest.

But without a doubt this place is more vendor friendly (you have to if you are running it as a business) mods on this forum WILL jump on quick to defend vendors and delete/move post.

On a different note I can say i truly am a car nut and do enjoy modding the car and working on it but i have a day job to support this sickness. i really don't gain anything other than pleasure and informing others.

I also know not everyone will post a great review but the minute you have a problem all hell breaks loose and public vendor bashing starts.

the forums can make or break a vendor not like the days where you simply advertised on superstreet do a cover spread and everyone buys your stuff

I've had my share of problems with mods in the years but i always try to resolve it w/ the vendor first and if things dont work out then ask for public support.

Very good post!

[linsm3]

I've gotten a lot of good information on this board and being a girl and new to modding a car I'm like Bambi in the woods. I'm lucky to be near IND and no they are not paying me, they've been fair and trustworthy. I have already spent more than I should have but life is short and if it makes me happy so be it. People are going to try and make a buck and that's the way it is. You just have to do some research and use common sense. I was close to getting a tune but am still thinking that might not be a good idea, I don't think the risks outweighs the benefits and don't know I totally trust the data out there.

[Moxie]

Originally Posted by novablackm3

this is interesting.

just the other day i posted how a new brand of wheels looked like a knock off of an original wheel and 2 days later the thread is deleted. I've personally been a mega mod and been in the car forums days 1999~2000+ honda-acura.net acura-tl.com acura-cl.com now acurazine clubrsx clublexus tons of bmw boards and also met TONS of friends and business associates through car forums.

Believe it or not when i started it wasn't for the money as we had a core group donate and help keep the site up ( most were IT networking guys) we had donations and other means, anyhow i realize now a days its more for profit which i can't really blame either.

However sites such as bimmerboard / roadfly / e38.org where truly dedicated to fixing oem problems first and then mods, since the m3 is so new this site seems to be dedicated more towards commercial interest first then show off what my daddy bought me.

If you can afford an m3 most likely you have a decent job, worked hard for it and have disposable income, however if you check the classified section you have these Orange county kids selling stuff on the classified sections and nickeling diming over 10~50 bucks obviously its not your car ..(yes you could be super frugal with your hard earned money) if your salary isn't 3x~5x the cost of your car then your living beyond your means simply to impress IMO . similar calculation i use for home cost is 3x~5x your salary

While i do live on this forum daily its for leisure and meeting people with similar interest.

But without a doubt this place is more vendor friendly (you have to if you are running it as a business) mods on this forum WILL jump on quick to defend vendors and delete/move post.

On a different note I can say i truly am a car nut and do enjoy modding the car and working on it but i have a day job to support this sickness. i really don't gain anything other than pleasure and informing others.

I also know not everyone will post a great review but the minute you have a problem all hell breaks loose and public vendor bashing starts.

the forums can make or break a vendor not like the days where you simply advertised on superstreet do a cover spread and everyone buys your stuff

I've had my share of problems with mods in the years but i always try to resolve it w/ the vendor first and if things dont work out then ask for public support.

Eloquent -

[IND-Distribution]

Maybe I can offer a bit of perspective from a vendor's point of view.

Most automotive aftermarket businesses start first and foremost because the individuals have a passion for cars and performance. The trouble is, many people have a passion for cars and performance, but not many are the right personality type to run a business. Many also do not have the right education to judge whether the parts they are selling are any good or not.

This passion and good intentions is often misdirected when these new business owners realize just how difficult it is to execute every single day with the requisite level of precision. The reality check comes some time during your first year: this is not about fun, it is a daily fight to be accurate, timely, perfect. It's a daily battle to ensure that your clients have a worry free experience with you.

Once that reality check hits, aftermarket parts businesses typically go one of two ways: you either bite the bullet and become obsessive compulsive about your daily activities at work, and make sure that every single thing you do is dead on perfect and achieve longevity, or you realize you weren't meant to operate a business, half step things for a few years while frustrating hundreds of customers who don't know better, then fade into obscurity.

As someone who has experience with having owned a fresh young business, I've personally experienced this struggle. The feeling of being ovewhelmed, bombarded with orders to fulfill, parts to ship out, emails to respond to, and complex problems to solve can be absolutely paralyzing. So many young first time business owners can approach their business with the best of intentions, and simply get buried in returns, refunds, new orders, and bad accounting.

Many business owners, when they realize that they do not have the expertise and years of engineering experience to design and manufacture the new miracle performance part they were dreaming of cannot accept the facts, and instead of going back for more revisions, delaying customer orders further, and even going so far as to refund deposit money will simply release their imperfect part on the market and invent excuses. They will fabricate dyno graphs. They will lie to their clients about horsepower gains that don't exist. They will mask fitment issues. All because the owner was not able to be honest with themselves initially.

I hope that some of this can help people understand the process that buries individuals with perfectly good intentions, and turns businesses that were originally built from the same enthusiasm all you forum members share, into crooked, dishonest companies that steal people's money, sell bad parts, and disappear.

I am in no way attempting to excuse or forgive the actions of these businesses, but do hope I can offer some perspective.

As business operators, employees in the aftermarket business, distributors, and vendors, it is our responsibility to choose to partner with only the best. A vendor that sells cheap, poorly engineered product is doing a disservice to not only his clients, but also to himself. These clients will eventually look elsewhere for performance parts, as they begin to realize that buying cheap poorly designed parts is always more expensive in the long term. By partnering with manufacturers that make quality products that your clients love, you enhance the longevity of your business, and of yourself. You can sleep better at night.

I lose customers every day to competing businesses. I lose them because if someone calls me asking to buy a part that I know is poor quality, I refuse to sell the part. I know the customer will go elsewhere, call someone else, and buy the part anyway, and that I will lose the sale. I also know that my clients trust me because of my ability to sift through the pile of cheap, poorly designed garbage in the aftermarket industry, and offer them products I truly believe in. I know that this will help IND achieve longevity in the long term, even if I don't get every dollar from every sale.



As a customer who purchases automotive products, you vote with your dollar. It is very difficult indeed to select quality products for your car. Please, be skeptical when purchasing products manufactured by brands with little business experience. Please, ask as many questions as possible. Where is the product made? Who designed the product? Who engineered it? What quality standards is the product tested to? What sort of business experience does the manufacturer have? If the vendor you're working with cannot answer these questions, you may want to move on. You may be dealing with someone who does not have good knowledge of the products they offer. Someone who, after their reality check, chose the easy route, and comes to work every day not to create longevity, not to build fantastic cars that fellow car enthusiasts enjoy, but to make a quick dollar by selling the current fad.

Watching brand new wheel manufacturers, brand new exhaust manufacturers, brand new performance brake manufacturers show up in the market and make hundreds of sales break my heart every time. Who tested the product? Who engineered it? Do they care about your safety and happiness? This isn't to say that every new manufacturer is making bad parts, but in this age, where anyone with a few thousand in investment dollars can pick up a telephone, call a manufacturer in Taiwan, China, Korea, Mexico, and so forth and put together an exhaust system, a set of wheels, or a carbon fiber accessory with their name and their "design" built in, it certainly pays to be weary. It pays to do your research.

Sorry for the long post everyone. I hope it helps.

[tom @ eas]

Great post, Ilia - I agree 100%

[lucid]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

My patience has officially worn out for these types of accusations.

I'd like to second PG's sentiment above. I, too, as a volunteer moderator on this forum, am getting rather tired of being accused of this or that by people who seem to want make extremely general claims and paint broadly.

I'd like to remind people that the three moderators on m3post.com, PG, Southlight and I have demanding day jobs and do moderating on the side to help the forum function better. I learned a lot on this forum, and this is my way of giving something back. Speaking for myself, I have absolutely no financial stake in any of the commercial interactions that take place on this forum, and I believe the same applies to the other two moderators. I have no formal interactions with any of the vendors that are active on the forum. The only modifications on my car are the exhaust, springs, and the air filter, and I paid the market price for them. I am about to purchase a set of RAC wheels as some of you may know, but I am paying full price like anyone else on those as well. When I was shopping around for a BBK, I was offered a discount by one of the vendors here, but when I called up other vendors on the phone without saying anything about my moderator status on this site, I was offerred the exact same discount. Regardless, I didn't end up buying a BBK kit.

Now, can you say the same thing about other moderators or so-called forum gurus on other sites? I know for a fact that you can't. (I really wish I could disclose more on that topic here, but I can't. I can tell you that you would be really surprised though to hear some of it.)

The official sponsors pay a sponsorship to the forum, and that only strikes me as being natural as the administrators need to run the website. I have no idea if they make money out of those transactions. The admins are the legal owners of the site, and I don't think it would be fair to blame them if they have commercial interests. Running a website of this magnitute must be demanding and require resources.

On another note, we frequently move and delete vendor threads (when we move a vendor thread to the vendors section, we do not leave a temporary link behind as that would beat the point of moving it). We also frequently give sponsors infractions. Actually, I probably have given more infractions to sponsors than users in the past 2-3 months. However, a regular user does not know anything about those interventions. They are invisible to the public as they should be. It is true that there have been some increasing spam-like vendor thread starting activity recently in the non-vendor sections geared to promote products, and we have taken steps to deal with it. I have made several suggestions to the admins, and they have been responsive. I have moved something like 50 vendors threads from the non-vendor sections to the vendor sections in the past 2 weeks alone. As a consequence, I had to deal with a few unhappy vendors via PM.

I value criticism, but it needs to be done in a constructive manner (and if it includes evidence to back up an accusation when applicable). So, please exercise some discretion when making a broad accusation in the lines of "mods are in on the money," etc. as this is getting to be offensive. Again, if you have suggestions as to how this particular issue can be improved, let us know.

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by linsm3

I've gotten a lot of good information on this board and being a girl and new to modding a car I'm like Bambi in the woods. I'm lucky to be near IND and no they are not paying me, they've been fair and trustworthy. I have already spent more than I should have but life is short and if it makes me happy so be it. People are going to try and make a buck and that's the way it is. You just have to do some research and use common sense. I was close to getting a tune but am still thinking that might not be a good idea, I don't think the risks outweighs the benefits and don't know I totally trust the data out there.

or more importantly we can't be having your husband's Viper put your baby to shame

Cheers,
e46e92

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by novablackm3

If you can afford an m3 most likely you have a decent job, worked hard for it and have disposable income, however if you check the classified section you have these Orange county kids selling stuff on the classified sections and nickeling diming over 10~50 bucks obviously its not your car ..(yes you could be super frugal with your hard earned money) if your salary isn't 3x~5x the cost of your car then your living beyond your means simply to impress IMO . similar calculation i use for home cost is 3x~5x your salary

Nice job generalizing. Did I miss when $50 became nickels and dimes? Your elitist attitude is what I dislike about this forum sometimes.

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

The veracity of posts like the one quoted above depend on people believing the poster. Mostly people who subscribe to the same philosophy will tend to believe it. But what if it's not true? How can it be proven false? Ordinary users can't authenticate whether another user is telling the truth about his threads being deleted.

Two days ago, I looked up the most recent history of people getting banned from the site. The ratio was 5:1 bans for vendors vs. ordinary users. So immediately, it's very clear that there's obviously something wrong with the perception of users if they think it's the other way around. The problem for users, is they don't have the same access as the moderators to look this stuff up.

Next, I looked up Nova's posting history. Not a single one of his threads has ever been deleted -- EVER! Threads get moved all of the time when they appear in the wrong forum, but very rarely do threads ever get deleted. SPAM and porn threads are the most common threads deleted. In general, the only time threads get deleted is when a non-vendor starts a commercial thread. Those get deleted almost immediately. The second most common cause of thread deletes, is when the OP asks for a thread deletion. But instead of deleting threads, they are usually closed -- instead of being deleted. We close them instead of deleting them because they may contain information that is useful to the general public. When the threads contain information that might get the OP in trouble, or wants to withdraw an item for sale, etc...those threads get deleted.

Maybe people think he was eloquent...but didn't notice that he admits to being a vendor. We've seen this all too often -- people accuse the moderators and administrators of all kinds of bad behavior -- really so they can put us into a box and use it to get away with breaking forum rules. My patience has officially worn out for these types of accusations.

Originally Posted by lucid

I'd like to second PG's sentiment above. I, too, as a volunteer moderator on this forum, am getting rather tired of being accused of this or that by people who seem to want make extremely general claims and paint broadly.

I'd like to remind people that the three moderators on m3post.com, PG, Southlight and I have demanding day jobs and do moderating on the side to help the forum function better. I learned a lot on this forum, and this is my way of giving something back. Speaking for myself, I have absolutely no financial stake in any of the commercial interactions that take place on this forum, and I believe the same applies to the other two moderators.

I value criticism, but it needs to be done in a constructive manner (and if it includes evidence to back up an accusation when applicable). So, please exercise some discretion when making a broad accusation in the lines of "mods are in on the money," etc. as this is getting to be offensive. Again, if you have suggestions as to how this particular issue can be improved, let us know.

Thanks PG and LUCID, because the first thing I did when he made the claim that he had a thread shut down, was look at this profile, and I saw now threads closed, but wasn't sure if once a thread is closed, it no longer shows up under our public profile as a thread we started.

What does this all prove? If you haven't been here for years, I probably won't believe much of what you say, just as I expect no one to believe what I say. The list of members who I truly believe and look to for info and advice is short, and even includes members I don't particularly like or agree with (i.e. Footie) because whether I like or dislike is not the point, its whether you have prove yourself time and time again to be trustworthy through consistent and respectful posting and dealings with other members. I count on one hand the amount of vendors who have done that, and maybe on two hands how many members. Just as I would assume no one here would trust a damn thing I had to say unless they had seen a consistent and trustworthy pattern for the years I have been here, if not, I might just be another punk.

Also, I am pretty tired of anyone who accuses any of our mods of anything but being fair and SUPPORTIVE OF THE MEMBERS. And more important than South, PG and Lucid having day jobs is they were some of the original members on this forum, before many members even purchased or thought about purchasing their //Ms. I have been here from the beginning, back to the days when were were all awaiting the first official press release (never forget that day) to savage posting some of the first pics and videos of the car and him driving it after we all had been axiously awaiting the first one to appear and wishing I had the financial abilities to afford such a machine, but frankly, until very recently I just wasn't there, and the one thing that I remember from day one was guys like South and Lucid and PG giving fair, what appeared to be accurate information, input and a general concern for helping anyone and everyone. Never using the , or smilies to belittle or beat down an unsuspecting newcomer. Stand-up guys, and classy to say the least.

We have too many shady vendors, but I gather from PG's post there would be many more if it were not for the hard work of our mods. So, I guess the old school "buyer beware" applies, and the only way to handle what appears to be a dishonest vendor is to not buy their stuff, and not participate in their threads.


Cheers,
e46e92

[novablackm3]

This is going to get ugly..

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

The veracity of posts like the one quoted above depend on people believing the poster. Mostly people who subscribe to the same philosophy will tend to believe it. But what if it's not true? How can it be proven false? Ordinary users can't authenticate whether another user is telling the truth about his threads being deleted.

Two days ago, I looked up the most recent history of people getting banned from the site. The ratio was 5:1 bans for vendors vs. ordinary users. So immediately, it's very clear that there's obviously something wrong with the perception of users if they think it's the other way around. The problem for users, is they don't have the same access as the moderators to look this stuff up.

Next, I looked up Nova's posting history. Not a single one of his threads has ever been deleted -- EVER! Threads get moved all of the time when they appear in the wrong forum, but very rarely do threads ever get deleted. SPAM and porn threads are the most common threads deleted. In general, the only time threads get deleted is when a non-vendor starts a commercial thread. Those get deleted almost immediately. The second most common cause of thread deletes, is when the OP asks for a thread deletion. But instead of deleting threads, they are usually closed -- instead of being deleted. We close them instead of deleting them because they may contain information that is useful to the general public. When the threads contain information that might get the OP in trouble, or wants to withdraw an item for sale, etc...those threads get deleted.

I'm sure I could even cut/paste from the banned user logs to show that 5:1 vendors more than users get banned, and it still wouldn't be enough proof to stop stupid posts like the one above. But those of you around here who respect the work that we do, please understand that we are here to serve the user community, not the vendor community.



Maybe people think he was eloquent...but didn't notice that he admits to being a vendor. We've seen this all too often -- people accuse the moderators and administrators of all kinds of bad behavior -- really so they can put us into a box and use it to get away with breaking forum rules. My patience has officially worn out for these types of accusations.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=327422

was the original post, my original message "very nice advan rs style " was posted and quickly hidden or removed/deleted. I then saw that hvd.kevin also commented about the similarity of advan rs to the vmr's so i pm'ed him and said my post got removed and to be careful. He replies back with a short comment, and then i post this up here.

I get a notice from PG about an infraction and to proove that it was deleted, now i go check and the post is there and hvd.kevin's comment is updated /changed to now quote what my original message... something very fishy.

I also am NOT a vendor, my day job is to run a network/security company. I was simply a mega moderator @ other forums because i lived and loved the car forum and it was not for profit.

Some of you guys have known me for 10+ years and i can confidently say that i ain't no attention whore looking to cause drama or make false accusations.

Anyhow I also know fighting w/ a moderator of a site is a loosing battle..

[King Tut]

You did say the "thread" was deleted which isn't true. Your "post" may have been deleted. VMRs are the Rotas of the BMW world. We all know it. No need to bring it up in a thread.

[novablackm3]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Nice job generalizing. Did I miss when $50 became nickels and dimes? Your elitist attitude is what I dislike about this forum sometimes.

elitists ! HA! your funny.

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by novablackm3

This is going to get ugly..


Anyhow I also know fighting w/ a moderator of a site is a loosing battle..

Then why respond like this to PG's and LUCID's post?

Cheers,
e46e92

[lucid]

Originally Posted by novablackm3

This is going to get ugly..

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=327422

was the original post, my original message "very nice advan rs style " was posted and quickly hidden or removed/deleted. I then saw that hvd.kevin also commented about the similarity of advan rs to the vmr's so i pm'ed him and said my post got removed and to be careful. He replies back with a short comment, and then i post this up here.

I get a notice from PG about an infraction and to proove that it was deleted, now i go check and the post is there and hvd.kevin's comment is updated /changed to now quote what my original message... something very fishy.

I also am NOT a vendor, my day job is to run a network/security company. I was simply a mega moderator @ other forums because i lived and loved the car forum and it was not for profit.

Some of you guys have known me for 10+ years and i can confidently say that i ain't no attention whore looking to cause drama or make false accusations.

Anyhow I also know fighting w/ a moderator of a site is a loosing battle..

I just looked the edit history of that thread up. When a mod edits any post in a thread other than his/her own post(s), the action is logged. There are absolutely no enteries in the event log of that thread. None.