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08-24-2008, 03:05 PM | #45 |
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Although I agree that it is unlikely for those dips to be real, I think it is too early to say what is and what is not real at this point. Who knows, maybe the issue I brought up with clutch slippage/engagement is plausible since things are happening so fast in the D3 shift, and maybe those oscillations that occur after the interval you have marked as "the shift" are artifacts of the engagement process as the clutch loses and regains traction. Unlikely but not impossible.
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08-24-2008, 03:24 PM | #46 | |
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Last edited by swamp2; 08-25-2008 at 12:21 AM.. |
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08-24-2008, 03:31 PM | #47 | ||
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08-24-2008, 03:38 PM | #48 |
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Well, we don't know that the data get cleaner at that point. How do you know that is pure signal? That's why I asked about the frequency of the noise during that interval in another post, which seems to be a variable across the data range you plotted and is a function of how the sensor is mounted among other things. Anyway, maybe we are all reading too much into this preliminary, and somewhat noisy, data. We'll see how things look after better mounting.
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08-24-2008, 03:45 PM | #49 | |
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08-24-2008, 03:57 PM | #50 |
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Maybe I'm completely off but I'm not sure about the 35ms shift in D3. What says you that the shift is completed at the point you were drawing the "end of shift" line, swamp? My understanding is that the shift can't be completed as long as the acceleration is higher than it was before the shift and that's some time longer. In case I'm plain wrong here say it in a nice way please.
Best regards, south
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08-24-2008, 05:07 PM | #51 | |
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I think the units for noise is an RMS value (sqrt(noise V^2 ~ 'power')), hence the sqrt of (hz) mg = g x 10^-3 the sensor looks like it was designed for vibration/shock analysis say the g force range is 1g if the f of oscillation is say 1hz, noise is 0.3 mg if the f is 400hz the noise is 0.3/20 mg 0.015 mg noise http://www.endevco.com/resources/tp_pdf/TP324.pdf this is a good primer http://www2.usfirst.org/2005comp/Manuals/Acceler1.pdf non-linearity is 0.3%, which is kinda like the accuracy or repeatability... how do I donate? |
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08-24-2008, 05:20 PM | #52 | |
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These are the very reasons I have provided very large +/- uncertainty values on the actual shift times. Accurate and certain values are a way off and will require quite some additional work. Below is a fully annotated run. I should have posted this long ago. Not entirely relevant to your question but loosely. I think it will help others see the big picture. The previosuly posted shifts are just serious zooms on both axes but more so on the horitontal/time axis. |
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08-24-2008, 05:23 PM | #53 | |
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I think he picked those points because you can see the g drop (clutch disengaged), then rise(engaged) but you may be right...the ripples may be the clutch slipping due to slower engagement or the computer adjusting it and the throttle for smoothness...so the actual shift may be much long...when the large cycles end and they settle down to the pre-shift level |
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08-24-2008, 05:31 PM | #54 |
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Yes, this helps the rest of us. Seeing what you were seeing, I can now understand what you meant. I'm sure we'll get this cleaned up over time with the help of members like Ken, and additional donors like Art.
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08-24-2008, 05:33 PM | #55 | |
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The error specs do not lend themselves to estimating errors during the DC or nearly DC periods and this is what I would like to have. They do explain why the sharply rising data section have less noise. Peaks have a great deal of high frequency content and if the noise decreases with increasing frequency that likely explains this observation. I understand the linearity . FYI: I was an ME designing, building and testing precision pressure and force sensors for some time.... Donations can be made to me through paypal. I'll pm you. Thus far we have spent about $600 and I have been given 4 $100 donations. As well, as you probably read, Ken is donating time and materials to make a real mounting system. Ken: One other point: If there is any way at all to make this a universal mount (i.e. for all or most cars) that would be great. I seriously doubt it is possible but if you examine a bunch of seat rails you may come up with a clever solution. Otherwise it is a new mount for each bloody vehicle. |
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08-24-2008, 05:41 PM | #56 |
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Fair enough, thanks guys!
Best regards, south
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08-24-2008, 05:44 PM | #57 |
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Yeah, absolutely should have included this from the get go. 1. I'm (somewhat) lazy. 2. It is never so easy to understand what others may not be seeing. 3. I viewed this initial post as preliminary data. Overall S/N during a~constant is about 3:1, ugh. Perhaps 8:1 at best, given the much smaller noise during high slope portions.
Last edited by swamp2; 08-25-2008 at 12:12 AM.. |
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08-24-2008, 05:52 PM | #58 |
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08-24-2008, 07:06 PM | #59 |
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ArtPE has generously donated $75 to help fund this fun little project. Thanks again Art, your financial and non financial contribution is appreciated. We will be interested to see the results of your matlab post processing of the data (if that was your plan...).
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08-25-2008, 12:06 PM | #61 |
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Has anyone tried to compare and contrast the actual acceleration curves between the different modes yet (I'm sure somebody will have done this?!?!)..... I pick up my M3 next Monday and plan to time it in the various modes (once run in) using a Racelogic PerformanceBox (used by many of the top car magazines)...... if anything interesting shows up i'll post up the results.
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08-25-2008, 12:51 PM | #62 | |
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You should be fairly convinced of this effect just looking at the data I already posted. You can clearly see a longer duration and increased acceleration profile which is consistent with what you feel. You can easily calculate the extra velocity just as I did in my OP and despite the simplicity of that calculation it should be quite accurate (I basically just smoothed and averaged the curve and then numerically integrated it "by eye"). Once in gear everything will be identical. You only get the changes right during the actual shift events. You will get these tiny bursts of extra velocity comparing modes with surge vs. those without (just like it feels!). We'll certainly be interested in your Racelogic results. |
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08-25-2008, 01:12 PM | #63 |
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Member Irb Digital has generously donated $40 to this project. Irb is considering a new M and an automated manual for the first time. A very gracious donation when Irb isn't even an owner (yet ). Cheers Irb.
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08-25-2008, 01:14 PM | #64 |
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I'm not expecting any noticable difference in the curves but happy to test in the name of science and autogeekology
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08-25-2008, 01:17 PM | #65 |
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For those of you REALLY following all of the details. The accel was likely overloaded on its input due to a typo on a spec sheet (and my fearless experimentation). I knew something was wrong when it quickly shot up to 175+ deg F . All of the data in the OP was taken after the overload. The frequency resolution seemed unaffected but it did have a zero shift and small change in output which I accounted for in that data. I have sent it off for repair/recalibration or replacement. There will be no additional testing until I get the unit back. It will probably take 1-2 weeks.
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