Savagegeese on the E92 M3: Future Collectable?

[stein_325i]

[Cyberdemon]

"You are buying this car purely based on this engine"

"Yes. Yes I am"

It's ironic that he argues that the problem with the car is that it's not a pure sports car. But that's the whole reason 90% of us bought it. It's a car that can get kids and groceries thrown in it and give you the giddies when you open it up, without having to be at 10/10ths to feel like it's doing something exciting.

[lagunablue1]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

It's ironic that he argues that the problem with the car is that it's not a pure sports car. But that's the whole reason 90% of us bought it. It's a car that can get kids and groceries thrown in it and give you the giddies when you open it up, without having to be at 10/10ths to feel like it's doing something exciting.

Agreed. I had the same mindset for years - if it wasn't a purpose-built, "pure" sports car it isn't worth owning. But having chased that dream and built a modified S2000 (supercharged, ohlins, st40, etc etc), it became apparent that it mostly sat in the garage.

I think one can make the argument for "purity" in a sports car if you live somewhere with a surplus of twisty canyon-esque driving roads and can regularly exploit them. For myself, living in downtown Toronto means driving 2-3 hours up north to the lake house to find fun roads, and I was rarely able to take the S2000.

Enjoyed the video regardless, big fan of the savagegeese channel.

[Cmassey3]

Originally Posted by lagunablue1

Agreed. I had the same mindset for years - if it wasn't a purpose-built, "pure" sports car it isn't worth owning. But having chased that dream and built a modified S2000 (supercharged, ohlins, st40, etc etc), it became apparent that it mostly sat in the garage.

I think one can make the argument for "purity" in a sports car if you live somewhere with a surplus of twisty canyon-esque driving roads and can regularly exploit them. For myself, living in downtown Toronto means driving 2-3 hours up north to the lake house to find fun roads, and I was rarely able to take the S2000.

Enjoyed the video regardless, big fan of the savagegeese channel.

Yeah, I came to the same conclusion with my NA Miata. I can't keep up toe to toe with Miatas in the mountains with the E92, but getting there is much more pleasant.

[br2wdc]

I concur completely with your assessment of what would happen if I got a "pure" sports car, it would just sit in my garage. And it's one of the main reasons I choose the E90 M3, it's completely practical and provides the best of all worlds. Does it handle like a S2000 or Miata? Probably not, but it gets more then close enough for me.

The difficult choice for me was DCT over 6MT (1st time I have ever done that with one of my BMW's) but that decision was more from Wash DC traffic then anything else.

The other big point Mark/Jack made in the review is the engine; it's really has no rival or equal, and another reason why we all bought our cars.

Matt really dialed in his car but did it cleanly and tastefully. Mark/Jack did a tremendous job presenting the good with the bad ... very enjoyable video, and Savage Geese hits another HR.

Originally Posted by lagunablue1

Agreed. I had the same mindset for years - if it wasn't a purpose-built, "pure" sports car it isn't worth owning. But having chased that dream and built a modified S2000 (supercharged, ohlins, st40, etc etc), it became apparent that it mostly sat in the garage.

I think one can make the argument for "purity" in a sports car if you live somewhere with a surplus of twisty canyon-esque driving roads and can regularly exploit them. For myself, living in downtown Toronto means driving 2-3 hours up north to the lake house to find fun roads, and I was rarely able to take the S2000.

Enjoyed the video regardless, big fan of the savagegeese channel.

[swagon]

It's clear especially from this video that Mark hates anything that isn't a mid-level Korean commuter or a lightweight Japanese sports car. Will tolerate the odd AMG or 911, though.

This was more of a rant about how he dislikes sporty everyday cars than a review of a modified E92 M3.

[stein_325i]

Just for added context, Mark (Savagegeese) did own an E92 M3.

[wootloops]

Originally Posted by swagon

It's clear especially from this video that Mark hates anything that isn't a mid-level Korean commuter or a lightweight Japanese sports car. Will tolerate the odd AMG or 911, though.

This was more of a rant about how he dislikes sporty everyday cars than a review of a modified E92 M3.

It seems like every Savagegeese video is Mark nit-picking cars to death. The video production quality is great but the commentary could use some work.

[Cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by wootloops

It seems like every Savagegeese video is Mark nit-picking cars to death. The video production quality is great but the commentary could use some work.

He's a dry-whiner. And as he at least admits, his ownership experience of his E92 soured his opinion. Most auto journalists don't actually own or care about cars which keeps them slightly unbiased (except for the guys who constantly get a stream of nice cars for only saying nice things about everyone).

For someone who spends so much time under cars on lifts talking about the construction of suspension components it seems ironic he couldn't have fixed some of this shit himself.

I've owned 9 cars (that I can remember) and I would always say that the cars that were the most flawed were always the ones I loved the most. Flaws build character and personality and usually mean there is some overwhelmingly positive trait that is so wonderful you remember it. My TL-S also had a great engine noise and 6 spd even though it understeered like a cow. My Corvette was great except it spent half its life in the shop and the clutch couldn't hold the power the engine made. My 335 was all-around perfect and meh, I got rid of it 2 years in to ownership because it was so good at just about everything it excelled at nothing.

The E90 is noisy inside, the ride quality on bad pavement is "tolerable" at best, it's a pain in the ass to maintain (Which gives me an excuse to buy car parts and tools and spend time in the garage!) and the fuel economy sucks. But those are not things I'm thinking about when I'm revving it out.

Part of me seeks the boring compliance of a Volvo or 340i for a daily commute if it ever happens again, but I'll happily own this car through the Pandemic until I decide I love it too much to daily drive it any more.

[Ajolives]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

"You are buying this car purely based on this engine"

"Yes. Yes I am"

It's ironic that he argues that the problem with the car is that it's not a pure sports car. But that's the whole reason 90% of us bought it. It's a car that can get kids and groceries thrown in it and give you the giddies when you open it up, without having to be at 10/10ths to feel like it's doing something exciting.

Wife: Crap, we need to run and grab som-

ME: [grabbing my key fob] On it!

Wife: Where were you, that shoulda took 5 minutes, not 25...

Such a great car to just get in and drive, wouldn't have it any other way

[i_love_cars]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

He's a dry-whiner. And as he at least admits, his ownership experience of his E92 soured his opinion. Most auto journalists don't actually own or care about cars which keeps them slightly unbiased (except for the guys who constantly get a stream of nice cars for only saying nice things about everyone).

For someone who spends so much time under cars on lifts talking about the construction of suspension components it seems ironic he couldn't have fixed some of this shit himself.

I've owned 9 cars (that I can remember) and I would always say that the cars that were the most flawed were always the ones I loved the most. Flaws build character and personality and usually mean there is some overwhelmingly positive trait that is so wonderful you remember it. My TL-S also had a great engine noise and 6 spd even though it understeered like a cow. My Corvette was great except it spent half its life in the shop and the clutch couldn't hold the power the engine made. My 335 was all-around perfect and meh, I got rid of it 2 years in to ownership because it was so good at just about everything it excelled at nothing.

The E90 is noisy inside, the ride quality on bad pavement is "tolerable" at best, it's a pain in the ass to maintain (Which gives me an excuse to buy car parts and tools and spend time in the garage!) and the fuel economy sucks. But those are not things I'm thinking about when I'm revving it out.

Part of me seeks the boring compliance of a Volvo or 340i for a daily commute if it ever happens again, but I'll happily own this car through the Pandemic until I decide I love it too much to daily drive it any more.

I concur but I already knew I was going to concur when I saw you had a 3G TL-S 6mt. I had an 07 with the first J35 that King Motorsports did a full NA build on. 12.5:1 compression, cammed, etc. the noises from that V6 were magical. Among the best for sure.

The quote that stood out to me the most, and immediately, from OG Matt was that it is the M3, the most flawed but also the most special. That to me sets the entire tone for the car as a whole.

[gkgsvensson]

You can always have an E92 M3 AND a purist sports car of your choosing...Z4MC and Ferrari 360 come to mind

[torrque]

It is no less of a sports car than a E46 M3, or E36 M3, etc. But collectible ? Maybe, definitely not that one he is showing there... that's modified to hell and back.
IF it will ever be collectible, people will be looking at stock, unmodified, original cars.

I sold and bought A LOT of cars in my life (average life span of a car with me is 2 years); the sum of all mods you do to the car does not bring the selling price up by that amount, if anything it turns some buyers away.

Just my 2 cents.

[Shrike360]

Originally Posted by wootloops

It seems like every Savagegeese video is Mark nit-picking cars to death. The video production quality is great but the commentary could use some work.

I really like SGs videos because he actually criticizes cars. He shows the good, bad and the ugly of every car he reviews, but he tries to be objective about what the car is and what it's trying to do. You just have to be aware of his personal views on sporty cars, and even he admits his personal preferences. The dude owned an Ariel Atom for a while, which gives you an idea about what he appreciates. Sold it and picked up an LC500.

Some reviewers never seem to critique. This is why I stopped watching Straight Pipes, as it felt like they were reading off a brochure in an enthusiastic manner. My favorite car reviewers right now are SG and Throttle House, as they offer actual commentary.

[spiderspider]

the engine, steering, and chassis, actually.

[911r]

Originally Posted by torrque

It is no less of a sports car than a E46 M3, or E36 M3, etc. But collectible ? Maybe, definitely not that one he is showing there... that's modified to hell and back.
IF it will ever be collectible, people will be looking at stock, unmodified, original cars.

I sold and bought A LOT of cars in my life (average life span of a car with me is 2 years); the sum of all mods you do to the car does not bring the selling price up by that amount, if anything it turns some buyers away.

Just my 2 cents.

Modified to hell and back? Are you sure? Intake, exhaust, Brembos, Dinan suspension. The Dinan suspension, and exhaust was even available for installation & order at most dealerships, leaving the only 'true' aftermarket goodies to be the intake, and BBK. Headlights too, but that's an easy fix. Otherwise it has OEM M-Performance seats, M-Performance steering wheel, ZCP wheels. Seems like a very OEM+ build to me. There would certainly be a ton of money, and interest for this car if Matt ever decides to sell it, even in its current form.

I view the 'modifications don't add value but instead detract value/interest in the car' as an extremely antiquated argument. We're not talking about a vintage Ferrari here. Most M3 owners want to drive their car, and very tasteful OEM+ modifications that aid in the driving experience can certainly help with value. Of course you won't receive 100% of your money back, but that's an unreasonable expectation to begin with.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

"You are buying this car purely based on this engine"

"Yes. Yes I am"

It's ironic that he argues that the problem with the car is that it's not a pure sports car. But that's the whole reason 90% of us bought it. It's a car that can get kids and groceries thrown in it and give you the giddies when you open it up, without having to be at 10/10ths to feel like it's doing something exciting.

Yeah if I wanted a pure sports car, there are better options. There is a market though for people who want to drive something fun on the street, to work, and the grocery store, that they could also use on back roads, and possibly at the track with mods, but Mark doesn't understand why anyone would spend more than it cost to get a used Honda Accord with a MT to do that. Then when it comes to sports cars they're either cheaper and flawed, or too expensive and a waste on the street with him.

Somehow Lexus gets a pass though with everything, I guess because you at least in theory have a reliable compromised car.

[Germanauto]

Big fan of SG but he's completely off the mark on his two videos on the E92 M3.

This notion of comparing this car to a dedicated sports car is nonsensical. BMW's identity is not like Porsche's. From the inception of the 2002 and through subsequent models like the E28, E30, E36, E46, etc. BMW's identity has always been in the 2 door sports coupe. The E92 competed with the C63 and ISF of its day, not the 911 or S2000. The E92 is special due it being the final model to have tactile hydraulic steering, a V8, feeling small and tossable, and overall being a visceral feeling car that nearly no car offers anymore.

Poorly thought out narrative with this one.

[leemik]

The guy Mark has closed his mind..no matter how irrational his hate is now he will never come back to the light side. He's contradicting himself left and right in the video and you can see him raising his voice in anger while sitting in the car. Jack says something softly.. then he just uncontrollably rants his answer.. His previous M3 must have killed his family and cut off his legs and arm at Mustafar or something... Let the hate flow through you.

If I was a 3 series owner i'd be insulted by his comments by saying "it's just a 3 series" on the inside.. That was kind of an elitist attitude. Has he ever priced out a 335i of this generation vs an m3? They are pretty close in price. Pity those poverty 3 series owners LOL

[911r]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Big fan of SG but he's completely off the mark on his two videos on the E92 M3.

This notion of comparing this car to a dedicated sports car is nonsensical. BMW's identity is not like Porsche's. From the inception of the 2002 and through subsequent models like the E28, E30, E36, E46, etc. BMW's identity has always been in the 2 door sports coupe. The E92 competed with the C63 and ISF of its day, not the 911 or S2000. The E92 is special due it being the final model to have tactile hydraulic steering, a V8, feeling small and tossable, and overall being a visceral feeling car that nearly no car offers anymore.

Poorly thought out narrative with this one.

Exactly. Poor comparison in my opinion. If you want to judge the car because the brakes aren't all that great, or the shifter feel is pretty lacking, etc. that's perfectly reasonable. But not liking the car because it's not an S2000 when this car was never built to be or compete against an S2000 is pretty odd. A C63/ISF is what this car should be compared to. This is also coming from a huge SG fan--but you didn't see him talking about how he wished the ISF was more similar to an S2000 in his review of it. Perhaps if he reviewed an E90 he'd understand.

[dannyboy017]

I cannot stand this dude's narration, but his videos are top quality. Overall he hates the very concept behind the M3. It entire premise is so you can take it to the track, after dropping the kids off at school in comfort.

A flaw of his is "the interior is out of a 3 series"....uh its an M3. The MOTORSPORT edition of....wait for it....the 3 series. Also, how are S2000's and Miata's even in the same sentence as an M3? Apples and oranges....

If this guy reviewed airplanes he would start comparing Cessna's to F18's. Awful video all around.

[DRLane]

I don't understand the emphasis or appreciation for these reviewers? Why do I care at all about their assessment?

The only reviewer I've ever enjoyed or put any weight on is ole Tiff. He has the pedigree, knowledge, and ability to substantiate his assessment in an entertaining manner.

It's more than 13 yrs old, shitty resolution, and yet its infinitely more than Savagegeese in every way.

EDIT: I recognize the this is very different video intent... Still though