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      03-23-2019, 10:12 PM   #1
ChiBimmer
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4 seats, 3 pedals, $30k

I have a Honda a S2000 that I'm keeping. I need another car for occasionally toting my teenagers or bad weather. We have a Cayenne that's the family car so I don't need something high on practicality . Manual is a must. I prefer NA and RWD.

I'm driving E46 and E90 M3s. The 128i is a possibility because it's so light and tossable. At low speed it's more fun than the M cars. Obviously it doesn't have the acceleration and the suspension has lower limits but they do feel nice on the street.

I'll also consider RX-8x, Evo, and maybe a Camaro SS which is a little above budget. The E39 M5 is a classic but for me there's no advantage over the E9x M3.

I've driven the RS4 and Mini Cooper JCW and found them numb. I've had a 135i and found it understeery. The torque was fun in short bursts but it was boring at low speed—the 128i just feels so much lighter and happy to rev.

Any other cars I should consider? Your thoughts? (Obviously this crowd likes the E9x M3–with good reason.)
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      03-23-2019, 10:47 PM   #2
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Pretty good list.

Camaro feels a bit numb and boat like as well.

Evo is the most raw of the bunch and would be my pick. Brutal power with some cheap mods. You would be into the car well under 30k. 20k gets a very nice one. I had 2 of them. Does have it's share of issues but not related to the engine. That is neither rwd or NA though so maybe not for you.

Rx 8 I feel like is just a headache. Buddy had one. Non stop check engine lights.

I have a supercharger on my e92 so it makes up for the heavy weight of these cars at least in the straight line. 30k might get you into one. Cheaper if you buy a car with one already installed. They are very reliable.
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      03-23-2019, 11:12 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by eatsleepboost View Post
Pretty good list.

Camaro feels a bit numb and boat like as well.

Evo is the most raw of the bunch and would be my pick. Brutal power with some cheap mods. You would be into the car well under 30k. 20k gets a very nice one. I had 2 of them. Does have it's share of issues but not related to the engine. That is neither rwd or NA though so maybe not for you.

Rx 8 I feel like is just a headache. Buddy had one. Non stop check engine lights.

I have a supercharger on my e92 so it makes up for the heavy weight of these cars at least in the straight line. 30k might get you into one. Cheaper if you buy a car with one already installed. They are very reliable.
The E9x doesn't feel sluggish in acceleration to me. I don't have much use for its power on the roads I use. It just feels less nimble. It's probably overall the best car here I'm just not sure it's the best car for the driving I do. Fwiw I drove a member's car that's listed for $26.5 and the thing was near mint.
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      03-25-2019, 07:51 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiBimmer View Post
I have a Honda a S2000 that I'm keeping. I need another car for occasionally toting my teenagers or bad weather. We have a Cayenne that's the family car so I don't need something high on practicality . Manual is a must. I prefer NA and RWD.

I'm driving E46 and E90 M3s. The 128i is a possibility because it's so light and tossable. At low speed it's more fun than the M cars. Obviously it doesn't have the acceleration and the suspension has lower limits but they do feel nice on the street.

I'll also consider RX-8x, Evo, and maybe a Camaro SS which is a little above budget. The E39 M5 is a classic but for me there's no advantage over the E9x M3.

I've driven the RS4 and Mini Cooper JCW and found them numb. I've had a 135i and found it understeery. The torque was fun in short bursts but it was boring at low speed—the 128i just feels so much lighter and happy to rev.

Any other cars I should consider? Your thoughts? (Obviously this crowd likes the E9x M3–with good reason.)



I have a black 6mt 2008 e92 m3 with Active Autowerks level 2 supercharger that I’m thinking of selling. It has 72,500 miles on it. I have all the maintenance history from Active Autowerks available. I’d let it go for $25,000 or best offer. It’s making 530whp. Rod bearings were done by active 3 1/2 years ago when the supercharger was put in. I’ve put 40,000 on it since then and it’s completely reliable.
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      03-25-2019, 11:28 AM   #5
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Is the Chevrolet SS sedan down there in that range used? It's one of the few truly daily-practical cars I've driven recently that felt truly special, and one of two (2) 4-door sedans sold with an NA V8, RWD and manual transmission in the past 8 years (if you knock that down to 5 years, it's the only one)

The LS3 has nice torque for real-world situations and it's not so nice or fragile you'll feel bad about crapping it up in a Chicago winter. I have several discerning car friends who LOVE theirs and would otherwise never go near a GM product, but it truly was an even-better E39 M5 if you ignore the taxi cab exterior (Which can have its upsides). The steering is quite good for two ton car, every bit as good as any big-body BMW. The back seat is MUCH better than the E90M, as opposed the E39M with its ginormous front seats that eat a ton of knee room the SS has sortof-normal front seats so the rears are big and the rear door openings nice and wide.

If you're keeping the S2k it's different enough from that experience to be a new car. Honestly the engine in the E90M reminds me most of the 2.2 S2000's...just two of them strapped together. Very similar fizzy fun high-RPM engines but you have to be in the right gear...the right gear is just one gear higher than the S2k for most real-world situations because you don't need 400hp that often

Something to think about.
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      03-25-2019, 02:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
Is the Chevrolet SS sedan down there in that range used? It's one of the few truly daily-practical cars I've driven recently that felt truly special, and one of two (2) 4-door sedans sold with an NA V8, RWD and manual transmission in the past 8 years (if you knock that down to 5 years, it's the only one)

The LS3 has nice torque for real-world situations and it's not so nice or fragile you'll feel bad about crapping it up in a Chicago winter. I have several discerning car friends who LOVE theirs and would otherwise never go near a GM product, but it truly was an even-better E39 M5 if you ignore the taxi cab exterior (Which can have its upsides). The steering is quite good for two ton car, every bit as good as any big-body BMW. The back seat is MUCH better than the E90M, as opposed the E39M with its ginormous front seats that eat a ton of knee room the SS has sortof-normal front seats so the rears are big and the rear door openings nice and wide.

If you're keeping the S2k it's different enough from that experience to be a new car. Honestly the engine in the E90M reminds me most of the 2.2 S2000's...just two of them strapped together. Very similar fizzy fun high-RPM engines but you have to be in the right gear...the right gear is just one gear higher than the S2k for most real-world situations because you don't need 400hp that often

Something to think about.
I've always loved the SS's. I've yet to drive one, but I love the concept and minimal styling that gives nothing away. My wife thinks they are just a "neat Camry" by looking at it.

I think you can get an automatic at about the price requirement, but I think you're going to need to tack on another 20%+ more to get three pedals. They hold their value well. I mean hell, look at the Pontiac G8 GXP 6MT. Those things are still pulling their weight in price despite there being a newer, better version available (with a car company that still exists to boot).

I wouldn't mind having one if the price was better. At that price point and genre of car, my money goes towards a 2nd gen CTS-V if big car, four doors, RWD, and three pedals are on the short list.
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      03-25-2019, 02:39 PM   #7
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The original version of this meme was:

$30,000
300 hp
3000 lbs

The only options for that are EcoBoost Mustang, Camaro 2.0T, or 370Z. Applying it to your original ask, the Z is out because it doesn't have a rear seat. Obviously, once you go used, this opens up the door to a lot more stuff.

I have considered getting a second car for DD duties. A $349 lease on a new Accord is tempting, and those can be had with a manual. With a cheap Hondata tune, you can get 300hp with a FAT powerband. No bolt-ons or 100 octane gas needed.
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      03-26-2019, 06:29 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
The original version of this meme was:

$30,000
300 hp
3000 lbs

The only options for that are EcoBoost Mustang, Camaro 2.0T, or 370Z. Applying it to your original ask, the Z is out because it doesn't have a rear seat. Obviously, once you go used, this opens up the door to a lot more stuff.

I have considered getting a second car for DD duties. A $349 lease on a new Accord is tempting, and those can be had with a manual. With a cheap Hondata tune, you can get 300hp with a FAT powerband. No bolt-ons or 100 octane gas needed.
They say 3 is a lucky number...:wink :wink
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      03-26-2019, 10:04 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzyfry123 View Post
I wouldn't mind having one if the price was better. At that price point and genre of car, my money goes towards a 2nd gen CTS-V if big car, four doors, RWD, and three pedals are on the short list.

Pretty much this. It's a detuned four-door Corvette ZR1. Interior is very meh but it will be a riot to drive.
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      03-26-2019, 11:05 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Pretty much this. It's a detuned four-door Corvette ZR1. Interior is very meh but it will be a riot to drive.
I've got a buddy that has a coupe that's pretty bonkers with work done by Vengeance. Doesn't take much to make it a nutso vehicle. Hand controls to boot (paralyzed from a gnarly side-by-side accident).
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      03-26-2019, 02:59 PM   #11
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But it’s not 3000 lbs. Not many 3000 lb performance cars these days that are good for toting teenagers and bad weather.
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      03-26-2019, 09:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
The original version of this meme was:

$30,000
300 hp
3000 lbs

.
That's a good way to put it. I would add RWD or awd. I don't like torque steer so fwd with 300 hp is out for me.

A couple of NA cars come to mind:
A full bolt on 128i gets close to 300 hp crank and close to 3000 lbs. RX-8 would need serious mods to get there on power but it's an amazing handling car.
Evo 9 is close on weight and that's awd. I imagine some STI is too.
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      03-26-2019, 09:43 PM   #13
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Spend $6k more for a Civic Type R?
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      03-27-2019, 06:45 AM   #14
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Spend $6k more for a Civic Type R?
Yep. That would qualify or will soon second hand. I'm not interested in FWD or turbo four.

I know I mentioned STI and Evo above which are turbo.
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      03-27-2019, 09:54 AM   #15
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What about 5 or 6 S60R's or V70R's? turbo 5, and if one breaks, just take the plates off, crush it and uber to the next one
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      03-27-2019, 12:11 PM   #16
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What about 5 or 6 S60R's or V70R's? turbo 5, and if one breaks, just take the plates off, crush it and uber to the next one
No way would I buy a nearly 15 year old Volvo. Those things weren't even that reliable when new.
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      03-27-2019, 01:02 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Yep. That would qualify or will soon second hand. I'm not interested in FWD or turbo four.

I know I mentioned STI and Evo above which are turbo.
whats wrong with FWD? I get the turbo 4 part cuz those engines sound like shit but FWD setup properly is fun too.
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      03-27-2019, 01:22 PM   #18
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The Civic Type R is supposed to have next to no torque steer and reportedly can lap the ‘Ring as fast as an E9xM3. Faster on the track than an STI or 370Z. It will be a great addition to the used market in a few years, assuming owners sell them. Not my thing, but if I was looking for a quick and reliable car that got decent mpg, it would be on the list.
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      03-27-2019, 06:05 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
The Civic Type R is supposed to have next to no torque steer and reportedly can lap the 'Ring as fast as an E9xM3. Faster on the track than an STI or 370Z. It will be a great addition to the used market in a few years, assuming owners sell them. Not my thing, but if I was looking for a quick and reliable car that got decent mpg, it would be on the list.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiBimmer View Post
Yep. That would qualify or will soon second hand. I'm not interested in FWD or turbo four.

I know I mentioned STI and Evo above which are turbo.
whats wrong with FWD? I get the turbo 4 part cuz those engines sound like shit but FWD setup properly is fun too.

Civic R is fast and practical. Sound isn't that big a deal but turbo fours are laggy. I love an instant connection between the throttle pedal and the engine. I like engines that build power like the S54, S65 or my S2000. I like getting the back end loose too.
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      03-27-2019, 08:05 PM   #20
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From the reviews I have read, the Type R does a good job with lag. Tech and tuning have come a long, long way since the 80s.
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      03-27-2019, 10:13 PM   #21
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From the reviews I have read, the Type R does a good job with lag. Tech and tuning have come a long, long way since the 80s.
It's getting better but they all have it even Porsche's new flat four with parts from the 911 Turbo.
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      03-28-2019, 07:56 AM   #22
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I like the Type R on paper. I just can't get past it's origami Pikachu looks.
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