re71r wear so fast

[kyippee]

Originally Posted by dbyrd

Where are you guys sourcing AR1s at decent price? I may give them a try knowing that they'll only last a few days.

I've been buying locally at Elite Performance in the SF Bay Area, but I know Phil's tire is one common source. R-Compound USA I've heard of but haven't seen online purchase

[P1zzaboy]

Originally Posted by nickauger

This is the track , Circuit Mont-Tremblant.

*Jackie Stewart once said : The only race track more difficult that Circuit Mont-Tremblant is Monaco.*

I prefer to run RS4. They are slower than RE71s, but they remain the same throughout the 20 min sessions better, and they last longer. Really depends on goals with the car between best time or session lenght. What time did you run at LCMT?

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by dbyrd

Where are you guys sourcing AR1s at decent price? I may give them a try knowing that they'll only last a few days.

I got my only set from phil's. Didn't see any other place shipping in the U.S. with a better price. Was a good, fun tire.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by dbyrd

Where are you guys sourcing AR1s at decent price? I may give them a try knowing that they'll only last a few days.

Try G Speed (Cresson, TX).

[aboutsize14]

@dparm. Have YOU ran the RE71R personally? Or do you just wonder around the pits looking at what tires your fellow HPDE drivers are running? Seems like a waste of a weekend to me.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by aboutsize14

@dparm. Have YOU ran the RE71R personally? Or do you just wonder around the pits looking at what tires your fellow HPDE drivers are running? Seems like a waste of a weekend to me.

How a tire holds up over the course a session depends on many variables; weight of the car, size of tire, size of tire in relation to the weight, tread depth, pressures, driving style and so on.

Compared to a true r-comp, yes the RE71's will overheat and get greasy quicker and more easily - but that's the nature of a STREET tire that can run lap times equivalent to r-comp tires. Like dparm mentioned, they are a very popular HPDE option as they are still very street friendly, easy to drive, forgiving and fasttt. For the average HPDE driver running RE71's they are probably not pushing them to the limit and overheating them like individuals that are running them in TT events. For the average Joe doing an HPDE it's probably an excellent option and a tire that will happily last a full session of use without overheating - simply because they aren't driving aggressive or fast enough to overwork them.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by aboutsize14

@dparm. Have YOU ran the RE71R personally? Or do you just wonder around the pits looking at what tires your fellow HPDE drivers are running? Seems like a waste of a weekend to me.

My point was that your post seems to contradict the reality of how people are using that tire: you claim the RE71R is a poor fit for HPDE, yet it's one of the most popular tires used at HPDE. I run TT and I will tell you it is NOT a popular TT tire for anyone vying for the top spot.

Don't take it so personally. I actually welcome the discussion because this is not something I have heard before about this tire. Would love to hear your experiences and see some data indicating how it falls off fast.

[fsmtnbiker]

The RE71 is a popular HPDE tire because a lot of HPDE students start off autocrossing, where that tire is pretty good and still one of the fast ones. They do overheat badly on track and get super greasy... Doesn't mean they're bad for HPDE, most street tires do the same thing. I think on the E92 it's more like 1-2 laps before they fall off noticeably. They're really good cold but they do not handle heat well.

[Kelse92]

Agree with Chris,
RE-71 for me last fall at Hallett in cool temps got me an out-lap 1-3 hot laps where I could put down my fastest times and then they would fall off lap-time wise and get greasy. Data shows the same. They lasted me sessions-wise the whole weekend, another weekend at Eagles Canyon, and about 40 autocross runs before they corded so life-wise they were worth it to me.

They're really a better AutoX tire; but tracking in cool temps, 200tw required series like WRL or SCCA TT, and/or for a novice that's learning I still think they're great tires if you want to go a little faster than a RS4.

[rhyary]

I think you guys are trying to split hair about the 100-200 tread tires but the reality is that they are all the same. They all overheat with a 3500Lbs cars and they all do about the same lap time for few lap then fall off.

They are different in the wet, and mostly differ on the street manners.

The bottom line is that for HPDE, get the cheapest. For doing PB, get slicks

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by rhyary

I think you guys are trying to split hair about the 100-200 tread tires but the reality is that they are all the same. They all overheat with a 3500Lbs cars and they all do about the same lap time for few lap then fall off.

They are different in the wet, and mostly differ on the street manners.

The bottom line is that for HPDE, get the cheapest. For doing PB, get slicks

False brotha. They do verrrryyy different lap times, and have very different heat characteristics.

[dparm]

Does anyone have data showing differences in Gs (lateral and longitudinal) on a new RE71R versus 1 lap later, 2 laps later, 3, 4, 10, etc? All from the same session, ideally.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by rhyary

I think you guys are trying to split hair about the 100-200 tread tires but the reality is that they are all the same. They all overheat with a 3500Lbs cars and they all do about the same lap time for few lap then fall off.

They are different in the wet, and mostly differ on the street manners.

The bottom line is that for HPDE, get the cheapest. For doing PB, get slicks

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

False brotha. They do verrrryyy different lap times, and have very different heat characteristics.

Losing count of how many times people have told Rhyary this isn't the case - but he keeps on saying it like it is.

rhyary I'll say here what I said to you in your thread: For YOU they may be the same, but you can't generalize your opinion on the matter into facts of what others will experience. Many people can chime in to verify that their experiences with various 100-200tw tires is drastically different, in terms of outright speed of a tire, durability, consistency over a session and handling characteristics. Some are fast and overheat while others are nearly as fast but can take the abuse of a session and so on.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by tsk94

Losing count of how many times people have told Rhyary this isn't the case - but he keeps on saying it like it is.

rhyary I'll say here what I said to you in your thread: For YOU they may be the same, but you can't generalize your opinion on the matter into facts of what others will experience. Many people can chime in to verify that their experiences with various 100-200tw tires is drastically different, in terms of outright speed of a tire, durability, consistency over a session and handling characteristics. Some are fast and overheat while others are nearly as fast but can take the abuse of a session and so on.

The point is "splitting hair".
Bridgestone own Firestone
The RE-71R is $300, the FFI500 is $200.

For HPDE, show me the numbers that make a difference whether you are on a $300 tire or $200 tire.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by rhyary

The point is "splitting hair".
Bridgestone own Firestone
The RE-71R is $300, the FFI500 is $200.

For HPDE, show me the numbers that make a difference whether you are on a $300 tire or $200 tire.

It's not splitting hairs when the difference between tires is often fairly significant in multiple areas lol.

What numbers do you want? There will be a large variety in lap times and wear differences between tires in the 100-200tw category. Thinking otherwise is idiotic, and numerous people telling you so should be an indication of that.

[dparm]

Telemetry should make it pretty easy to prove the performance difference in tires.

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by rhyary

The point is "splitting hair".
Bridgestone own Firestone
The RE-71R is $300, the FFI500 is $200.

For HPDE, show me the numbers that make a difference whether you are on a $300 tire or $200 tire.

I haven't driven the FFI500. I have driven RE71r's (200tw cheater tire), NT01's (100tw), Hankook TD (80tw), Hankook Z214 C51 (40tw), R7's and A7's (40tw).

Times at my 2.9 mile home track TWS (RIP):

• NT01/RE71r/TD - 1:52
• R7's - 1:49
• A7's - 1:48
• Z214 - 1:47

For HPDE, I'd go with the cheapest, longest lasting tire -- NT01's. But if you're doing TT or trying to crush the souls of GT3 drivers, Hoosiers and Z214's are needed.

As a reference, I think I could run a 0:58 with RE71r or NT01's at LRP. I think my coach could run a 55.x with sticker A7's.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by ThunderMoose

I haven't driven the FFI500. I have driven RE71r's (200tw cheater tire), NT01's (100tw), Hankook TD (80tw), Hankook Z214 C51 (40tw), R7's and A7's (40tw).

Times at my 2.9 mile home track TWS (RIP):

• NT01/RE71r/TD - 1:52
• R7's - 1:49
• A7's - 1:48
• Z214 - 1:47

For HPDE, I'd go with the cheapest, longest lasting tire -- NT01's. But if you're doing TT or trying to crush the souls of GT3 drivers, Hoosiers and Z214's are needed.

As a reference, I think I could run a 0:58 with RE71r or NT01's at LRP. I think my coach could run a 55.x with sticker A7's.

Thanks Thunder, good data.

The main point I am trying to get across, in my idiotic ways, is that the condition in which people drive in HPDE negate alll the differences in the 100-200tw tires.

What have I observed i the last 70 or more trackdays?

1. If it is slightly wet or drizzle, most drivers sit the session out, or drive so slow that they can be on Blizzaks snow tires it it would make no difference what tires you are on. That takes away ALL the Wet $$$$ R&D tire manufactures invest in the UHP tires.

2. In the dry, most people drive at a pace that all UHP tires can do

3. The wear is about the same as far as a whole HPDE goes. it does not matter if a tire has some left on it before the next HPDE, you need to replace it anyway. That negate all the wear differences among the UHP tires because we don't have a racing team to change the tires just at the right moment

4. Tire manufacturers spend a lot of $$$ on road manners. None if it is valid after 7x20min sessions HPDE day. They all will drive like crap after one or two trackdays.

So, what we have left with when going to HPDE days is a very narrow angle of usage to meet 90% requirements of a HPDE day. Dry day with congestion trains and occasionally an open lap.

My point, is that the difference among a $200, $300 or $400 UHP tire is minuscule. And economics matter. Driving a set of FFI500 compares to RE-71R is a free track day!

The question is this: Can you learn to be a better driver on a set if FFI500? If yes, then the cheaper is better, then get an R7 or A7 to go fast.

I am using FFI500 and RE71R as an example. I actually take it a step further and drive on a $150/tire to become a better driver. But this is understandably is not for everyone. I strongly believe that buying a Max Perf $113/tire on sale at Tire Rack will make me a better driver just as buying a $300 tire.

The point will reflect itself when on slicks, and there will be data to back it up. When I go on a set of sticker slicks (proly A7) I will see if I got better as it reflect in lap time.

For any forum reader, my advise is to buy cheap UHP tires for the purpose of getting to be a better driver and to buy slicks to see if you got fast. There is no point in buying an expensive UHP tires unless you do 4 trackdays a year - then it does not really matter. But if a person does 20 or more trackdays it adds up to thousands of dollars.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by tsk94

It's not splitting hairs when the difference between tires is often fairly significant in multiple areas lol.

What numbers do you want? There will be a large variety in lap times and wear differences between tires in the 100-200tw category. Thinking otherwise is idiotic, and numerous people telling you so should be an indication of that.

Originally Posted by tsk94

Thinking otherwise is idiotic, and numerous people telling you so should be an indication of that.

I guess you will not be willing to be my tire sponsor. Damn.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by rhyary

I guess you will not be willing to be my tire sponsor. Damn.

Sadly not.

If you want numbers go on Tire Rack. Most of the popular 200tw+ tires are tested against each other and the data provided as well as the objective feedback demonstrates clear differences between them.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by rhyary

The main point I am trying to get across, in my idiotic ways, is that the condition in which people drive in HPDE negate alll the differences in the 100-200tw tires.

My point, is that the difference among a $200, $300 or $400 UHP tire is minuscule. And economics matter. Driving a set of FFI500 compares to RE-71R is a free track day!

I am using FFI500 and RE71R as an example. I actually take it a step further and drive on a $150/tire to become a better driver. But this is understandably is not for everyone. I strongly believe that buying a Max Perf $113/tire on sale at Tire Rack will make me a better driver just as buying a $300 tire.


For any forum reader, my advise is to buy cheap UHP tires for the purpose of getting to be a better driver and to buy slicks to see if you got fast. There is no point in buying an expensive UHP tires unless you do 4 trackdays a year - then it does not really matter. But if a person does 20 or more trackdays it adds up to thousands of dollars.

Your main point stated above wasn't what you initially posted - which was what I was replying to. You stated that the difference between all 100-200tw tires is miniscule and we we're making a big deal out of non-existent differences. Others and I replied to you stating that's not true when you generalize it like you did.

Explain how you feel like driving on slow street tires improves you as a driver and will allow you to be faster when you go to a fast tire like an R7 or a slick compared to driving on r-compound tires for improvement?

I think you've convinced yourself it's a good approach and thus provides self-justification for your tire choice. Clearly you want to spend the majority of your track days on a more economical tire, which is completely fine. But you try to justify it by saying driving on these slow street tires will improve you as a driver in a way that couldn't be accomplished on a faster or r-compound tire - which is total BS lmao.

Then you advise people to just buy cheap UHP tires for track use. Generalizing that everyone, or almost all everyone, would be better off using a street tire for HPDE is laughable. I hope people actually stop to think about what you're suggesting before taking terrible advice like this seriously.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by tsk94

Sadly not.

If you want numbers go on Tire Rack. Most of the popular 200tw+ tires are tested against each other and the data provided as well as the objective feedback demonstrates clear differences between them.

Grassroots motor sports does tests every year or so on track and auto cross tires. Sometimes UHP street tires as well. Andy Hollis has done a lot of the driving. He’s a meticulous guy with mad skills and keen observations.

As for track tires, it just depends, right? Slicks or purple crack are fast as fuck if your suspension can handle the grip. I disagree that a super cheap tire is a good choice for hpde. They can be inconsistent and not handle heat well. You do learn to drive around the flaws but it’s hard to tell if you’re improving at all.

Run a high quality street tire if you want lower max g but still want to learn. I used to run Bridgestone RE11’s On the E90M3. Ran them at COTA and destroyed much faster cars when it was mixed conditions on Saturday morning. They were consistent throughout the 3 days I instructed there (my first time ever at the track, btw). I was slow as hell in the tighter stuff due to the low grip but I wasn’t a moving chicane either. Fun tire to slide in turn 19 and the 9-10 section. Judicious throttle usage is important which only helps you as you move to stickier tires.

There’s a lot to be said for running tires you can drive to and from the track on without worrying about rain (until you get down to the wear bars that is!). If you’re getting passed because you’re on tires that are 2-seconds a lap slower, drop down a level and dominate the B run group. Always fun when your fellow run group folks walk by and shake their heads when they realize you’re on street tires and you lapped them.