Misfire in cylinder #4 remains

Jacooobs`n · 02-11-2018, 03:22 AM

Hi all fellow M3 owners.
I have a 2007 with 64000miles/107000km.
Started getting a CEL some time ago and reading the code says misfire in cylinder #4 and #6. Tried to swap coils and failure went to #1 and #6 once. Next say back to misfire in #4, and now only #4.
Car goes in limp mode when idle but stop/start a warm engine I managed to get above 2500-3000rpm and car is running perfectly fine up towards the limited (I stop at around 6000rpm as I know there is something wrong).

I replaced all 8 plugs and bought brand new OEM coils from BMW and put that into #4. Car goes OK for a day, the back to limp mode next morning. Code is still misfore in #4.
Yesterday I took all injectors in left bank (passenger #1-#4) out and swapped #4 with #1 and well as cleaned the seat as it was full of debris. Cleared the code, car stands idling for 20 minutes with no problem and I took a 20-minute drive to a friends house, stopped it for 45 minutes and when starting again it goes back in limp mode with misfire in #4 as usual.
When having the plenum off, I got my wife to turn the ignition on and press the right pedal, all trottlevalves are cooperating as far as I can see and while doing this manually I see no slack from the TA`s or any deviations between #4 and the others.
I am out of ideas and might send it off to someone that can inspect the electronics..
Any other suggestions for another try back home is highly appreciated. Budget had a rough 2017 with new crank, rod-bearings, clutch and flywheel

Honda · 02-11-2018, 10:59 AM

If you had all that troubleshooting then the next probable cause would be a bent valve. it is not a common problem but I have seen few e90X M3 with this problem.

Solo_M_Tech · 02-11-2018, 11:22 AM

Agree with the above, and or a weak/broken valve spring. You need to do a compression test on that cylinder, followed by a leak down test.

Jacooobs`n · 02-12-2018, 05:23 AM

Ok, thanks for replies and suggestions..
What is wierd is that, like this morning with a lot of snow during the night, I started the car and let it idle for 10ish minutes and I can hear some misfiring and suddently goes in limp mode while I was removing some snow outside of the car. The exhaust sounds much better in limp mode but car is shaking a little.
I got into the car, stopped it and started it again to reset the limp mode. I kept it on 1500rpm and suddently it"relaxed" with smooth running and smooth idle again. Same thing happens when driving that I need to push it above a certain limit to run smooth but this time it was like a switch.
I have a weak tought that it got something to do with the airpump for the cold start but this I can code to not start at all?
When I drove away this morning it was all fine, no misfiring after the restart in the morning..
If it was a valve or valve-spring, this issue should be there 100% of the time right?

DSilk · 02-12-2018, 06:33 AM

If the issue is mechanical it should remain all the time, rather than coming and going. A bent valve isn't going to restraighten and rebend, and weak springs will remain weak and valves will continue to close more slowly than normal until the spring is replaced.

Solo_M_Tech · 02-12-2018, 07:40 AM

This is starting to sound like a sticking vanos solenoid to me

DSilk · 02-12-2018, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ham_sammich

This is starting to sound like a sticking vanos solenoid to me

Excellent thought! I would look at this.

RokkM3 · 02-12-2018, 01:58 PM

what exactly is the CEL and are there any others that you have or had since you erased them? have you done a compression test of cylinder four? Is this all from the same tank of fuel? maybe you got some bad fuel? Do you have a multimeter. You can voltage check and resistance check the injector harness and the injector itself. If you can swap coils and plugs then injector is just as easy, swap cylinder 4 injector to cylinder 2 and see what happens? Anything else wrong, burning oil? leaks?

Jacooobs`n · 02-13-2018, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RokkM3

what exactly is the CEL and are there any others that you have or had since you erased them? have you done a compression test of cylinder four? Is this all from the same tank of fuel? maybe you got some bad fuel? Do you have a multimeter. You can voltage check and resistance check the injector harness and the injector itself. If you can swap coils and plugs then injector is just as easy, swap cylinder 4 injector to cylinder 2 and see what happens? Anything else wrong, burning oil? leaks?

CEL is only misfire in cylinder #4. I havent checked the compression or leak test as the tools I have didn`t fit all the way down the "coil-hole". I had one vanos solenoid replaced a year ago due to cold start rattle (which I still have in warmer weather, not during the winther). If it`s inlet or oulet vanos causing this problem, isn`t it strange it doesn`t affect the whole bank, only #4?
I had several tanks with 95 since this problem occurred so bad fuel isn`t the thing I am pretty sure.
I swapped injector #4 with #1 last weekend but problem remains in #4.
I will do an oil flush asap using OMEGA 907, one bottle and idle for 1 hour as some other BMW tech advised me to do. One bottle goes to 3 litre, the engine have about 12-13 liters but service changes only 8,8 litres so to avoid having too much flush left in the hoses and cooler he suggested to use one bottle and extend the time for idling.
I have no leaks, no heavy oil consumption out of normal.

RokkM3 · 02-13-2018, 08:40 AM

it must be a Troll then.. little guys get everywhere and cause havoc.. JK

Well. I'm afraid we don't seem to have enough information at this point for a conclusive answer.. To me it sounds like ignition related electrical but you would have to test power and resistance at the harness for the coil and the injector to be sure if one is not working as it should, since you already replaced the injector, coil and plug. Since you dont have a compression or leak down tester that fits and cannot test the mechanical as a result. I would hope you have a multimeter and can check those things at the harnesses. At least it would give you the direction to chase, if your coil harness is not getting signal for example to fire you know to check the wiring or the control module or any system that would tell the control module not to fire on cylinder four. I had a similar issue in a VW vr6 and it was the ignition control module, but similar does not mean identical problem.

Have you tired a fuel system cleaner? Something like a product we have here called "Sea Foam" works very well. Great to add to your oil system flush just before you do that about two tanks of fuel a few weeks before to clean out the whole fuel system very well.

Jacooobs`n · 02-15-2018, 08:35 AM

I tried a injector cleaner from STP on 1/4 tank for higher consentration with no difference.
I will remove all 4 vanos solenoids for inspection this weekend and switch bank 1 with bank 2 and see what happend.
I will also do an engine flush adding OMEGA 907 in the oil and flush it before adding fresh castrol 10w60 edge oil.
Thanks so far

Bruuuce · 02-17-2018, 11:45 AM

have you done a compression and leak down test?

Jacooobs`n · 02-18-2018, 04:18 AM

not, yet but will have it done shortly. I`ll keep you updated.
Same thing happened to another car here in Norway with fresh built lower part with new crank and rod bearings. Could we have missed out on something related to both engines being out, bottom part separated and assembled again with new crank, new bearings, new clutch, new flywheel++?

Bruuuce · 02-18-2018, 06:16 AM

I had a broken valve spring that caused intermittant issues. Hard to believe. The leak down test finally proved the issue

Honda · 02-18-2018, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruuuce

I had a broken valve spring that caused intermittant issues. Hard to believe. The leak down test finally proved the issue

I am willing to bet that this is his problem as well.

You need to do compression/leak test.

Jacooobs`n · 03-03-2018, 02:51 AM

Had it at BMW workshop yesterday and the did a compression test - OK.

System diagnostics - OK

After 6 hours they did not manage to detect the fault.
Next steop for me now is to pick up the car, take it home and swap places for the two AUS (exhaust) vanoses to see if the fault moves from #4 in bank#1 to somewhere in bank #2.
That includes new seal rings and new bolts. I have the camshaft locking tools OEM

opihi5 · 04-12-2018, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacooobs`n

Had it at BMW workshop yesterday and the did a compression test - OK.

System diagnostics - OK

After 6 hours they did not manage to detect the fault.
Next steop for me now is to pick up the car, take it home and swap places for the two AUS (exhaust) vanoses to see if the fault moves from #4 in bank#1 to somewhere in bank #2.
That includes new seal rings and new bolts. I have the camshaft locking tools OEM

Ever figure out the issue?
Check my recent post it is exactly what’s happening to you.

Jacooobs`n · 05-22-2018, 11:49 AM

Hi guys
Finally got things back together.
I was a little too querious about how the vanoses looks like internally as google haven`t done it before so I opened both exhausts but cracked the cover. Got a good deal on 4 "new" one from Mporium BMW "over there" in hope to get rid of the cold start rattle. Paid 1k for all 4 incl shipping to norway, they came off a 51k miles car with a collision damaged bottom part. Got photos from before they was removed and all looked fine.
So, I started assemble the engine with new sealing rings on both exhaust cams, new o-ring inside vanoses, timed the engine with OEM cam-locks and new stretchbolts, swapped exhaust cam sensors from bank 1 to bank 2, swapped soleniod valves, all coild numbered and back in original position.
Fired it up and -------------- nah, same hard start not idling nice and after a few seconds -> limp mode.
This time in cylinder #2 WTF? If it only had moved over to bank 2 it could have been a soleniod or cam sensor.
I am really starting to think this could be some remap or other electrical issue.
Anyone have any suggestion as I am totally lost over here in Norway now.
Not any good S65 mechanics in this country I`m afraid.

Thanks in advance

bvrider1 · 05-22-2018, 08:40 PM

Did you put the coil on number 4 on number 2? Maybe a bad coil?

Jacooobs`n · 05-23-2018, 06:49 AM

I numbered them so it was exactly the the same position as before when #4 had the issue.
I swapped yesterday coil in #2 with #1 with no luck. I`ll try today to swap both coils and plugs and see if that helps

deansbimmer · 05-23-2018, 01:21 PM

Do you have BMW ISTA-D to be able to help with diagnostics?

Jacooobs`n · 05-26-2018, 02:57 AM

I`m trying to book an appointment with local BMW to get a software update but doesnt seem like they are keen on seeing my car again. They have too many hours under the hood and still cant figure out whats wrong. Just giving me advices of what I can/should try at home.
I paid for all their work but still...

02-11-2018, 03:22 AM	#1
Jacooobs`n New Member 12 Rep 20 Posts Drives: 2007 BMW M3 e92 Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Norway iTrader: (0)	Misfire in cylinder #4 remains Hi all fellow M3 owners. I have a 2007 with 64000miles/107000km. Started getting a CEL some time ago and reading the code says misfire in cylinder #4 and #6. Tried to swap coils and failure went to #1 and #6 once. Next say back to misfire in #4, and now only #4. Car goes in limp mode when idle but stop/start a warm engine I managed to get above 2500-3000rpm and car is running perfectly fine up towards the limited (I stop at around 6000rpm as I know there is something wrong). I replaced all 8 plugs and bought brand new OEM coils from BMW and put that into #4. Car goes OK for a day, the back to limp mode next morning. Code is still misfore in #4. Yesterday I took all injectors in left bank (passenger #1-#4) out and swapped #4 with #1 and well as cleaned the seat as it was full of debris. Cleared the code, car stands idling for 20 minutes with no problem and I took a 20-minute drive to a friends house, stopped it for 45 minutes and when starting again it goes back in limp mode with misfire in #4 as usual. When having the plenum off, I got my wife to turn the ignition on and press the right pedal, all trottlevalves are cooperating as far as I can see and while doing this manually I see no slack from the TA`s or any deviations between #4 and the others. I am out of ideas and might send it off to someone that can inspect the electronics.. Any other suggestions for another try back home is highly appreciated. Budget had a rough 2017 with new crank, rod-bearings, clutch and flywheel
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02-11-2018, 11:22 AM	#3
Solo_M_Tech Brigadier General 1688 Rep 3,140 Posts Drives: 2014 M5 6MT Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Massachusetts iTrader: (7) Garage List 2014 BMW M5 [0.00]	Agree with the above, and or a weak/broken valve spring. You need to do a compression test on that cylinder, followed by a leak down test. __________________ 2014 M5 6MT
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02-12-2018, 06:33 AM	#5
DSilk Major 550 Rep 1,148 Posts Drives: 2008 BMW M3 Coupe Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: South Florida iTrader: (0) Garage List 2015 Jaguar XJ [0.00] 2015 Jaguar XF [0.00] 2014 VW GTI [0.00] 2008 BMW M3 Coupe [0.00] 2007 VW Passat 2.0T [0.00]	If the issue is mechanical it should remain all the time, rather than coming and going. A bent valve isn't going to restraighten and rebend, and weak springs will remain weak and valves will continue to close more slowly than normal until the spring is replaced.
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02-12-2018, 07:40 AM	#6
Solo_M_Tech Brigadier General 1688 Rep 3,140 Posts Drives: 2014 M5 6MT Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Massachusetts iTrader: (7) Garage List 2014 BMW M5 [0.00]	This is starting to sound like a sticking vanos solenoid to me __________________ 2014 M5 6MT
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02-12-2018, 01:58 PM	#8
RokkM3 Private 7 Rep 65 Posts Drives: e92 m3 vt625 Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: TN iTrader: (1)	what exactly is the CEL and are there any others that you have or had since you erased them? have you done a compression test of cylinder four? Is this all from the same tank of fuel? maybe you got some bad fuel? Do you have a multimeter. You can voltage check and resistance check the injector harness and the injector itself. If you can swap coils and plugs then injector is just as easy, swap cylinder 4 injector to cylinder 2 and see what happens? Anything else wrong, burning oil? leaks?
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02-11-2018, 10:59 AM	#2
Honda Lieutenant Colonel 289 Rep 1,532 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: US iTrader: (25)	If you had all that troubleshooting then the next probable cause would be a bent valve. it is not a common problem but I have seen few e90X M3 with this problem.
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02-12-2018, 05:23 AM	#4
Jacooobs`n New Member 12 Rep 20 Posts Drives: 2007 BMW M3 e92 Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Norway iTrader: (0)	Ok, thanks for replies and suggestions.. What is wierd is that, like this morning with a lot of snow during the night, I started the car and let it idle for 10ish minutes and I can hear some misfiring and suddently goes in limp mode while I was removing some snow outside of the car. The exhaust sounds much better in limp mode but car is shaking a little. I got into the car, stopped it and started it again to reset the limp mode. I kept it on 1500rpm and suddently it"relaxed" with smooth running and smooth idle again. Same thing happens when driving that I need to push it above a certain limit to run smooth but this time it was like a switch. I have a weak tought that it got something to do with the airpump for the cold start but this I can code to not start at all? When I drove away this morning it was all fine, no misfiring after the restart in the morning.. If it was a valve or valve-spring, this issue should be there 100% of the time right?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-13-2018, 08:40 AM	#10
RokkM3 Private 7 Rep 65 Posts Drives: e92 m3 vt625 Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: TN iTrader: (1)	it must be a Troll then.. little guys get everywhere and cause havoc.. JK Well. I'm afraid we don't seem to have enough information at this point for a conclusive answer.. To me it sounds like ignition related electrical but you would have to test power and resistance at the harness for the coil and the injector to be sure if one is not working as it should, since you already replaced the injector, coil and plug. Since you dont have a compression or leak down tester that fits and cannot test the mechanical as a result. I would hope you have a multimeter and can check those things at the harnesses. At least it would give you the direction to chase, if your coil harness is not getting signal for example to fire you know to check the wiring or the control module or any system that would tell the control module not to fire on cylinder four. I had a similar issue in a VW vr6 and it was the ignition control module, but similar does not mean identical problem. Have you tired a fuel system cleaner? Something like a product we have here called "Sea Foam" works very well. Great to add to your oil system flush just before you do that about two tanks of fuel a few weeks before to clean out the whole fuel system very well.
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02-15-2018, 08:35 AM	#11
Jacooobs`n New Member 12 Rep 20 Posts Drives: 2007 BMW M3 e92 Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Norway iTrader: (0)	I tried a injector cleaner from STP on 1/4 tank for higher consentration with no difference. I will remove all 4 vanos solenoids for inspection this weekend and switch bank 1 with bank 2 and see what happend. I will also do an engine flush adding OMEGA 907 in the oil and flush it before adding fresh castrol 10w60 edge oil. Thanks so far
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02-17-2018, 11:45 AM	#12
Bruuuce the me 342 Rep 318 Posts Drives: 01ZCoupe, 08M3Coupe, 21M2C Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Atlanta iTrader: (0)	have you done a compression and leak down test? __________________ 01 Z Coupe, 5MT, SB, not much else 08 M3 Coupe, 6MT, JB, not much else 21 M2c Coupe ,DCT, SOM, not much else
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02-18-2018, 04:18 AM	#13
Jacooobs`n New Member 12 Rep 20 Posts Drives: 2007 BMW M3 e92 Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Norway iTrader: (0)	not, yet but will have it done shortly. I`ll keep you updated. Same thing happened to another car here in Norway with fresh built lower part with new crank and rod bearings. Could we have missed out on something related to both engines being out, bottom part separated and assembled again with new crank, new bearings, new clutch, new flywheel++?
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02-18-2018, 06:16 AM	#14
Bruuuce the me 342 Rep 318 Posts Drives: 01ZCoupe, 08M3Coupe, 21M2C Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Atlanta iTrader: (0)	I had a broken valve spring that caused intermittant issues. Hard to believe. The leak down test finally proved the issue __________________ 01 Z Coupe, 5MT, SB, not much else 08 M3 Coupe, 6MT, JB, not much else 21 M2c Coupe ,DCT, SOM, not much else
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03-03-2018, 02:51 AM	#16
Jacooobs`n New Member 12 Rep 20 Posts Drives: 2007 BMW M3 e92 Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Norway iTrader: (0)	Had it at BMW workshop yesterday and the did a compression test - OK. System diagnostics - OK After 6 hours they did not manage to detect the fault. Next steop for me now is to pick up the car, take it home and swap places for the two AUS (exhaust) vanoses to see if the fault moves from #4 in bank#1 to somewhere in bank #2. That includes new seal rings and new bolts. I have the camshaft locking tools OEM
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05-22-2018, 11:49 AM	#18
Jacooobs`n New Member 12 Rep 20 Posts Drives: 2007 BMW M3 e92 Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Norway iTrader: (0)	Hi guys Finally got things back together. I was a little too querious about how the vanoses looks like internally as google haven`t done it before so I opened both exhausts but cracked the cover. Got a good deal on 4 "new" one from Mporium BMW "over there" in hope to get rid of the cold start rattle. Paid 1k for all 4 incl shipping to norway, they came off a 51k miles car with a collision damaged bottom part. Got photos from before they was removed and all looked fine. So, I started assemble the engine with new sealing rings on both exhaust cams, new o-ring inside vanoses, timed the engine with OEM cam-locks and new stretchbolts, swapped exhaust cam sensors from bank 1 to bank 2, swapped soleniod valves, all coild numbered and back in original position. Fired it up and -------------- nah, same hard start not idling nice and after a few seconds -> limp mode. This time in cylinder #2 WTF? If it only had moved over to bank 2 it could have been a soleniod or cam sensor. I am really starting to think this could be some remap or other electrical issue. Anyone have any suggestion as I am totally lost over here in Norway now. Not any good S65 mechanics in this country I`m afraid. Thanks in advance
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05-22-2018, 08:40 PM	#19
bvrider1 Captain 344 Rep 790 Posts Drives: e90 m3 + f80 zcp Join Date: May 2016 Location: 3rdCoast iTrader: (4)	Did you put the coil on number 4 on number 2? Maybe a bad coil?
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05-23-2018, 06:49 AM	#20
Jacooobs`n New Member 12 Rep 20 Posts Drives: 2007 BMW M3 e92 Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Norway iTrader: (0)	I numbered them so it was exactly the the same position as before when #4 had the issue. I swapped yesterday coil in #2 with #1 with no luck. I`ll try today to swap both coils and plugs and see if that helps
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05-23-2018, 01:21 PM	#21
deansbimmer BimmerPost Supporting Vendor 3749 Rep 2,907 Posts Drives: 2011 E93 M3 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: DFW, Texas iTrader: (17) Garage List 1988 BMW M3 [0.00] 2013 BMW M3 [0.00] 2011 X5M [0.00] 2011 BMW M3 [0.00]	Do you have BMW ISTA-D to be able to help with diagnostics?
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05-26-2018, 02:57 AM	#22
Jacooobs`n New Member 12 Rep 20 Posts Drives: 2007 BMW M3 e92 Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Norway iTrader: (0)	I`m trying to book an appointment with local BMW to get a software update but doesnt seem like they are keen on seeing my car again. They have too many hours under the hood and still cant figure out whats wrong. Just giving me advices of what I can/should try at home. I paid for all their work but still...
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