Is it worth stroking my engine to 4.6?

[chief]

Is it worth stroking my engine to 4.6 (on BMW DME/ECU)?

Does the motor live long (beyond 65k mikes)?

What are the pitfalls?

Does the 4.6 make your car feel 'unique' or 'special'?

[Scharbag]

@SYT_Shadow may have an informed opinion on this...

[ha9981]

No. But everyone here will scream stroker whenever an S65 implodes.

It's going to be anything but reliable compared to stock.

It's going to cost you well north of $20K USD.

It has really bad power gain per dollar spent.

Maybe in the future when the community gets better at building S65 strokers it will be worth considering.

Do it if you are really bored and can more than spare the money.

[pbonsalb]

If not tracking, maybe try a Harrop supercharger. Or an S85 conversion.

[SYT_Shadow]

This topic can go on forever.

First of all, the ECU has nothing to do with strokers or non strokers. I've seen a couple non-OEM ECUs (syvecs) on S65s, both stroker and not, and the cars drove like crap in part throttle situations.

My view so far is that a stroker won't last significant miles. Whether it's due to construction tolerances, crappy tunes or incorrect assembly is something I don't know.
Strokers are quite incredible. I get more fun breaking my stroker in at part throttle and 4k rpm than my F80 CS will provide in several lifetimes.
If you are serious about getting a stroker there is only one place that I'm aware of that guarantees their work: Carbahn (Steve Dinan). They warranty their work for 2 years/24k miles. All the other 'experts' provide zero warranty. What is more, Dinan's warranty can actually be used. Ask me how I know

If you need power beyond a primary cat delete + tune/pulleys etc, soon the community will have 292 cams which should provide +420whp when combined with headers, a good jump from the typical catless/stage 2 375whp.

If you want more, I would get an ESS supercharger system with the ESS tune. They have sold a ton of these systems and their tune isn't full of stupid things, like most others.

[chief]

I have run the ESS tune + catless + intake (no pulleys...just didn't do it). Nice power pick up and no issues (except I blew up the motor on track with this set up back in 2016).

I really like the power of the superchargers, but the California 2 year test cycle is a pain in the a$$. Is it worth doing the 595 supercharger and expecting to extend the life of the motor beyond 50K with supercharger?

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by chief

I have run the ESS tune + catless + intake (no pulleys...just didn't do it). Nice power pick up and no issues (except I blew up the motor on track with this set up back in 2016).

I really like the power of the superchargers, but the California 2 year test cycle is a pain in the a$$. Is it worth doing the 595 supercharger and expecting to extend the life of the motor beyond 50K with supercharger?

Long time no see, hope you're doing well!

Most 595 builds we installed/shipped eventually upgraded to the VT625 spec. ESS has since dropped the 595 and offers only the VT625 in Vortech form along their own G1 supercharger systems. We go a bit more in detail in this thread.

▀▄ eas | ESS Tuning G1/G1+ Intercooled Supercharger Systems
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1674956

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by chief

I have run the ESS tune + catless + intake (no pulleys...just didn't do it). Nice power pick up and no issues (except I blew up the motor on track with this set up back in 2016).

I really like the power of the superchargers, but the California 2 year test cycle is a pain in the a$$. Is it worth doing the 595 supercharger and expecting to extend the life of the motor beyond 50K with supercharger?

Was it rod bearings the first time?

Superchargers last longer than 50k. There are people that have been running superchargers for a long time without issues.

If I were supercharging I would do the 625kit but no higher. That's plenty of power anyway

[chief]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Was it rod bearings the first time?

Superchargers last longer than 50k. There are people that have been running superchargers for a long time without issues.

If I were supercharging I would do the 625kit but no higher. That's plenty of power anyway

The post mortem indicated a hydro lock - which is reasonable given the significant explosion. It blew up big - going out the top, side and bottom of the motor during Bimmerfest 2016 at AutoClub Speedway. The block was toast and could not be turned in for the core. Here is the sales thread with some pictures if interested Blown Motor

I appreciate the feedback on longevity as that has been one of my concerns. So for the sake of discussion, what would you do with a supercharged motor at 60k miles - what needs to be rebuilt or replaced to 'freshen' the motor for another 50k?

[omgzirra_exe]

could always consider a 4.4L, sleeve the block and can upgrade to a 4.6L later.

but yeah same SYT_Shadow said. something about breaking lose under 4K rpm brings absolute joy.

if i had to supercharge either the 625 or Harrop. the Harrop IMO keeps the power linear like NA.

make sure you take care of VCG, RBS, Coils,and TA before you do a supercharger, as you don't want to have to take it all off again to replace anything under the plenum.

[Johnny E92]

Supercharger would be a lot cheaper I would have thought, its essentially 'bolt on' and do the other under manifold items as suggested.

Sould be much cheaper than modifying and rebuilding the whole engine.

I would go the supercharger route personally if I was going to consider something, being in Australia as BMW stuff is a bit pricey here compared to US and Europe. Plus Harrop is an Aussie based company so it makes sense for me and I have had, and still have, several of Harrops products (big brake packages etc) on other cars without any issues and its top stuff in my opinion.

[SamM3er]

Why is everyone recommending the ESS 625 kit and not the ESS G1?!
Is there any specific or experienced reason for that?
I thought the G1 kit would be better than the 625 kit for few reasons.

Can anyone explain please?

[Epoustouflant]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

This topic can go on forever.

First of all, the ECU has nothing to do with strokers or non strokers. I've seen a couple non-OEM ECUs (syvecs) on S65s, both stroker and not, and the cars drove like crap in part throttle situations.

My view so far is that a stroker won't last significant miles. Whether it's due to construction tolerances, crappy tunes or incorrect assembly is something I don't know.
Strokers are quite incredible. I get more fun breaking my stroker in at part throttle and 4k rpm than my F80 CS will provide in several lifetimes.
If you are serious about getting a stroker there is only one place that I'm aware of that guarantees their work: Carbahn (Steve Dinan). They warranty their work for 2 years/24k miles. All the other 'experts' provide zero warranty. What is more, Dinan's warranty can actually be used. Ask me how I know

If you need power beyond a primary cat delete + tune/pulleys etc, soon the community will have 292 cams which should provide +420whp when combined with headers, a good jump from the typical catless/stage 2 375whp.

If you want more, I would get an ESS supercharger system with the ESS tune. They have sold a ton of these systems and their tune isn't full of stupid things, like most others.

I'm working on this as we speak. You made me a believer 👌

Thanks for leading the charge on so many innovative products.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by SamM3er

Why is everyone recommending the ESS 625 kit and not the ESS G1?!
Is there any specific or experienced reason for that?
I thought the G1 kit would be better than the 625 kit for few reasons.

Can anyone explain please?

I would definitely do the G1 before the 625. It's lighter, smaller, quieter. I mentioned 625 as that is the traditional ESS kit

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by chief

The post mortem indicated a hydro lock - which is reasonable given the significant explosion. It blew up big - going out the top, side and bottom of the motor during Bimmerfest 2016 at AutoClub Speedway. The block was toast and could not be turned in for the core. Here is the sales thread with some pictures if interested Blown Motor

I appreciate the feedback on longevity as that has been one of my concerns. So for the sake of discussion, what would you do with a supercharged motor at 60k miles - what needs to be rebuilt or replaced to 'freshen' the motor for another 50k?

There have been some freak accidents with injectors in stock and non stock engines.
I'd do rod bearings and injectors and keep running. As long as your tune is what came with the kit and you don't obsess with getting more and more power out of it I think you should be fine. We have at least one dedicated track car here that's supercharged with stock internals and has hundreds of fast track days under its belt. Just rod bearings replaced.

My experience so far has been that I don't want anyone 'refreshing' or touching my engine's internals. But I'm only on engine #4, stroker #3, so what do I know

I wish you had disassembled the block! I wonder what main bearing #1 looked like.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by chief

I appreciate the feedback on longevity as that has been one of my concerns. So for the sake of discussion, what would you do with a supercharged motor at 60k miles - what needs to be rebuilt or replaced to 'freshen' the motor for another 50k?

Nothing really any different than any normally aspirated S65, other than spark plug intervals are every 10K and the need to change S/C fluid on occasion.

There's a ton of supercharged M3s out there past the 100K mark, even one that comes to mind with over 200K and still running strong.

[chief]

Thanks everyone for the feedback and input! I get it that this is not a new topic, but I appreciate you sharing your experiences and lessons learned over these many years.

Sounds like a visit to the tax man (time to pay for my slice of freedom) and building out a project list are in order.

[drrust]

There was a stroker kit in the classifieds about a week ago.

[DrFerry]

I recommend going the HARROP route. It's a low boost positive displacement blower with a liner response and low down torque that's somewhat missing from the centrifugal blowers in my opinion. Mine's been installed for ~50K miles and beat on pretty hard. It makes the S65 'think' its a V10 and because of the low boost it's probably a little safer for the S65 (if there is such a thing with the boosted S65s). Anyway, the Harrop blower design has been put through it's paces at the Ring which is a good test of endurance and reliability IMO. Even though it's low boost (~6.2psi) it moves a high volume of air into the motor. Hence the torque at lower RPMs.

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1070943

[SamM3er]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I would definitely do the G1 before the 625. It's lighter, smaller, quieter. I mentioned 625 as that is the traditional ESS kit

Thank you for your reply.

If the OP doesn't mind, I would also appreciate tom @ eas take on this since they have got a relevant experience with both the ESS kits.
Thanks.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by SamM3er

Thank you for your reply.

If the OP doesn't mind, I would also appreciate tom @ eas take on this since they have got a relevant experience with both the ESS kits.
Thanks.

The G1 systems are discussed in detail (and pics) in the link provided on Post #7. If referring to strokers - supercharging and stroker kits are the only way to get sizable TQ numbers, we've seen some fantastic results on the dyno from both.

However, the investment cost on strokers can easily be 2-3x the cost of a supercharger, not including downtime.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

The G1 systems are discussed in detail (and pics) in the link provided on Post #7. If referring to strokers - supercharging and stroker kits are the only way to get sizable TQ numbers, we've seen some fantastic results on the dyno from both.

However, the investment cost on strokers can easily be 2-3x the cost of a supercharger, not including downtime.

G1 kit is very tempting! I can't lose the induction music of the NA version but the G1 is the most attractive option by far!