Used E90 M3 or EVO X

[6ixSpd]

Originally Posted by Z K

I strongly agree. The biggest let down in the M3 is the terrible stock suspension. It lacks rebound and you float over road bumps in any setting. (sport just makes it uncomfortable without increasing grip) That and the lack of shock travel - on any hard cornering, the car rides the bump stops.

Lol what? The M3's stock suspension is far from terrible. The one you've driven must've needed a serious rebuild or something because this is the first time anyone describes a stock E9X M3 as "terrible." It flat out contradicts everything ever tested about the car.

[Dr. Dre]

I took my e92 out on the back roads this weekend. I've had the car for about 4 months. I can't seem to get use to the steering. It seems really sensitive. Even in the softest settings the suspension doesn't seem to do that great a job when pushing.

I feel like I could push my EVO so much harder. I also noticed the traction control light constantly flashing. I didn't feel like I was pushing that hard.

I feel something might be wrong with my suspension. I don't know if the cars traction control is affecting how the car handles.

I still love the car. Maybe I just need to get used to the handling. Maybe just getting old and balls not that big anymore.

Go with the EVO.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by 6ixSpd

Lol what? The M3's stock suspension is far from terrible. The one you've driven must've needed a serious rebuild or something because this is the first time anyone describes a stock E9X M3 as "terrible." It flat out contradicts everything ever tested about the car.

Of course if you compare the M3 to the stock sport suspension from a 3 series, the M3 looks great.

I've owned my M3 since 10k miles when I purchased it from the dealer as a CPO car. I doubt it is very worn. Other stock M3s I've driven also behave similarly. If you haven't driven it on a race track, you haven't seen what the stock M3 suspension does.

The EDC shocks have always been pretty floaty and the rebound is terrible. Changing the EDC settings - Comfort-Sport etc, only changes the compression dampening and leaves rebound alone so it doesn't help. It does this because it would be very uncomfortable to have a fast rebound - the M3 is built with comfort in mind.

If you hit a series of fast bumps, the car will only react to the first one and the rest it'll float over with no feedback to the driver. If you hit a hard bump while cornering, it bottoms out and you get a jolt as it bounces off the bump stop.

Here is an image of what the M3 with the stock suspension does when it goes over a bump:


Other suspension systems like Ohlins DFV allow the shock to fully uncompress on each bump - reacting quickly with rebound.


Replacing my EDC suspension with KW V3 coilovers was one of the first things I did with the car. The car handles a lot better with proper shock rebound control.

Cars like the Evo give zero fucks about comfort so it has stiff suspension with fast rebound from the factory for track use.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by Dr. Dre

I took my e92 out on the back roads this weekend. I've had the car for about 4 months. I can't seem to get use to the steering. It seems really sensitive. Even in the softest settings the suspension doesn't seem to do that great a job when pushing.

I feel like I could push my EVO so much harder. I also noticed the traction control light constantly flashing. I didn't feel like I was pushing that hard.

I feel something might be wrong with my suspension. I don't know if the cars traction control is affecting how the car handles.

I still love the car. Maybe I just need to get used to the handling. Maybe just getting old and balls not that big anymore.

Go with the EVO.

You need to pick up some better suspension - it really changes the M3's handling.

As for the traction.. the rear end breaks loose rather easily if you're hard on the throttle. If you're getting the traction light, you're probably giving it too much gas too early in a straight line or in a corner.

The M3 responds better to delicate inputs and it can carry speed easier than an Evo.. Think momentum vs big power. With the Evo, you can get on the gas really early and power out of corners with confidence with the big torque.

As others have said before .. its apples and oranges - two totally different cars.

[6ixSpd]

Originally Posted by Z K

Of course if you compare the M3 to the stock sport suspension from a 3 series, the M3 looks great.

I've owned my M3 since 10k miles when I purchased it from the dealer as a CPO car. I doubt it is very worn. Other stock M3s I've driven also behave similarly. If you haven't driven it on a race track, you haven't seen what the stock M3 suspension does.

The EDC shocks have always been pretty floaty and the rebound is terrible. Changing the EDC settings - Comfort-Sport etc, only changes the compression dampening and leaves rebound alone so it doesn't help. It does this because it would be very uncomfortable to have a fast rebound - the M3 is built with comfort in mind.

If you hit a series of fast bumps, the car will only react to the first one and the rest it'll float over with no feedback to the driver. If you hit a hard bump while cornering, it bottoms out and you get a jolt as it bounces off the bump stop.

Here is an image of what the M3 with the stock suspension does when it goes over a bump:


Other suspension systems like Ohlins DFV allow the shock to fully uncompress on each bump - reacting quickly with rebound.


Replacing my EDC suspension with KW V3 coilovers was one of the first things I did with the car. The car handles a lot better with proper shock rebound control.

Cars like the Evo give zero fucks about comfort so it has stiff suspension with fast rebound from the factory for track use.

Well of course proper coilovers are going to be better than a factory setup. You are comparing aftermarket items designed over half a decade after the E9X M3's inception (and thus it's technology of the time), and using that as a reference point to judge the stock setup. Pretty dumb to do that. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Stock for stock, in it's class the stock suspension is absolutely not terrible. A set of proper coilovers better make the stock setup feel terrible otherwise it's a waste of money.

[eatsleepboost]

Originally Posted by SFCM3

I had an EVO X for a short amount of time. It was an OK car, but I was always partial to RWD cars. Also for those saying Japanese cars are cheap, try having a clutch replaced on the EVO X, get ready for a $2500 repair bill, and that's with stock parts...DIY is NO FUN either. I will take my e90 m3 over an EVO X anyday.

There is veryyy few repairs, maintenance, or upgrades that are more expensive on an Evo than an m3. Even clutch you mentioned... Have u ever priced out a BMW clutch and dual mass flywheel? 1800 for the flywheel and 800 for the clutch. You are at 2600$ with no labor. I put a little under 20k into one Evo and it was fully built. I put 5k into another Evo and the car had many mods on it. 5k barely buys you a full exhaust system on an m3.

[Dr. Dre]

Originally Posted by Z K

You need to pick up some better suspension - it really changes the M3's handling.

As for the traction.. the rear end breaks loose rather easily if you're hard on the throttle. If you're getting the traction light, you're probably giving it too much gas too early in a straight line or in a corner.

The M3 responds better to delicate inputs and it can carry speed easier than an Evo.. Think momentum vs big power. With the Evo, you can get on the gas really early and power out of corners with confidence with the big torque.

As others have said before .. its apples and oranges - two totally different cars.

All good points. Especially your comment about caring speed. I was thinking the same thing. I was thinking that it makes speed so effortlessly that maybe I was going as fast as in my EVO.

[pbonsalb]

An aftermarket flywheel and twindisc clutch is about $1600 as I recall, but check Spec to make sure. Only an idiot would pay $5k for an M3 exhaust. You can buy a new x pipe and rear exhaust for half that. I spent 1/3. M3 is a great car and I like mine with bolt on mods and tune. Had it for 7 years and 60k miles. Also have built motor turbo 99M3 with many mods that has about 700 rwhp and I enjoy it just as much and drive it nearly as much. Tough choice. I love speed, and a my 99M3 runs away from my 08M3. The only thing the 08M3 has is that it is newer and more comfortable and more practical.

[KawBoy]

Interesting that you say "Only an idiot would pay $5k for an M3 exhaust". I've spent more than $5k on my exhaust and I don't think I am an idiot.

[thkfast]

I've owned an '03 Evo VIII, three 335Is and this E92 M3. I don't track any of my cars, these are mostly daily driven.

Cars are like HOLSTERS, you'll go through a lot of them before finding one that works for you. Granted my Evo was many generations ago, it was my least favorite car ever. It felt cheap, didn't sound good, ran out of power at 6,000 rpms, harsh riding and looked mis-proportioned - it didn't even have cruise control. It was my daily driver, not a race car and maybe that was my mistake.

My 335Is were all more powerful and refined than the Evo. I always felt pampered in my BMWs with enough power to do anything and all the luxury I ever wanted. Like others have said, completely different cars - apples and oranges.

Now the M3. Just as quick as my mildly modded 335Is, sounds AWESOME, very comfortable, looks great, feels exclusive, leather, power everything, NAV, handles better than my 335Is, effortlessly fast and insanely STABLE at high speed.

Drive them all and take a chance, it's really the only way you'll know what works for you.

[Lanceezy]

E90 M3!!!!

[rcracin]

Originally Posted by eddieinotayev

So getting shorter springs makes the car feel faster?. If yes i guess ill do that on the M3 so it will feel the same like the EVO. I perfer the M3, but if its that much funner to sacrifice the BMW's luxury i will take the EVO.

I was referring to where you said you sold the 335i solely because of the suspension. Maybe you sold it because of suspension & lack of power?

[alloyR35]

Nice choices to have

Both cars are great fun in totally different ways. I owned a FBO EVO IX for two years and have E90 M3

EVO grips like its on rails except the AYC can be a odd experience at first you have to learn how to drive with it IMO. Nothing faster point to point than a turbo AWD car

E90 does daily duties better, hit the M button and it turns into a real performance car. The chassis feels better balanced, more progressive, rwd driving dynamics and v8 redlining at 8.6k is very special

For the butt dyno evo wins hands down with the torque and that awd grip

[LostPanda]

My brother has an Evo X since 2014 tuned and modded to hell. Driven it all the time and although the awd handles great, cheap to build and maintain, after a while I couldnt handle things coming apart and rattling. When the time came to buy a car, Ive always for the life of me wanted an E92 and didnt hesitate to pick one up over an Evo X. This is a case of two very different breed of cars. If you're pinching pennies and dont mind a bit of rattling here and there, or more power on the cheap. Then the Evo is for you. On the other hand if you want a more solid well rounded car for everyday driving and maybe a weekend excursion at the track, go with the M3, but keep in mind the M Tax even for aftermarket parts. Note if you do pick up an M3, know what you're getting into. You're not going to beat a lot of cars from a dig or be the fastest around the track, if you want to do that with an M3. Its going to take a lot of pennies.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by KawBoy

Interesting that you say "Only an idiot would pay $5k for an M3 exhaust". I've spent more than $5k on my exhaust and I don't think I am an idiot.

Sorry, I should have written "in my opinion" first.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Z K

Of course if you compare the M3 to the stock sport suspension from a 3 series, the M3 looks great.

I've owned my M3 since 10k miles when I purchased it from the dealer as a CPO car. I doubt it is very worn. Other stock M3s I've driven also behave similarly. If you haven't driven it on a race track, you haven't seen what the stock M3 suspension does.

The EDC shocks have always been pretty floaty and the rebound is terrible. Changing the EDC settings - Comfort-Sport etc, only changes the compression dampening and leaves rebound alone so it doesn't help. It does this because it would be very uncomfortable to have a fast rebound - the M3 is built with comfort in mind.

If you hit a series of fast bumps, the car will only react to the first one and the rest it'll float over with no feedback to the driver. If you hit a hard bump while cornering, it bottoms out and you get a jolt as it bounces off the bump stop.

.

I had to comment on this, so sorry OP if this is slightly off topic

I strongly disagree the OEM M3 suspension is not good, regardless of what an aftermarket manufacturer says about it.
Most of the 'coilover' cars I've been in ride like absolute garbage as well.

So here's what I have
E92 ZCP with EDC. Owned since 0 miles.
E90 with passive suspension. Owned since 36k miles.

This is what I upgraded to:
E92 MCS 2WNR
E90 MCS 3W remote reservoir

So, these are what I consider 'real' coilovers, not the Ohlins R&T/KW v3, etc.

I can distinguish the 3W and the 2WNR damping quality yet I still think the stock ZCP EDC was an excellent all round solution. It worked on the track, it worked on the street, it worked everywhere with excellent results.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by eatsleepboost

There is veryyy few repairs, maintenance, or upgrades that are more expensive on an Evo than an m3. Even clutch you mentioned... Have u ever priced out a BMW clutch and dual mass flywheel? 1800 for the flywheel and 800 for the clutch. You are at 2600$ with no labor. I put a little under 20k into one Evo and it was fully built. I put 5k into another Evo and the car had many mods on it. 5k barely buys you a full exhaust system on an m3.

5k buys you a used 625hp supercharger as well...

[BrewRifle]

Buy an M3 and slap a blower on it for a butt dyno that never stops pulling. You'll never be able to get the same thrill out of a freaking child's EVO...ever. EVO's are cool when you're 16 and can't stand American muscle cars (Integra GSR/ E36 M3 in my case in the late 90's).

Even in stock form the 10 year old E92 M3 is an amazing machine compared to all of the turbo'd/torquey vehicles of today.

[deansbimmer]

I break it down like this in my mind....

If I want raw performance and I'm young and can take the "boy racer" stigma that comes with the EVO, and want cheap mass produced parts, I would get that car.

If I want refined performance and I'm older and can take the "BMW prick" stigma that comes with the M3, and want expensive and exclusive parts, I would get that car.

Both cars are great in their own way. It comes down to budget and the owner's taste. Yeah the Evo is a fun car but it's not even on my radar of something I'd actually buy.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

Yeah the Evo is a fun car but it's not even on my radar of something I'd actually buy.

I grew up lusting after an EVO. In my mind, they made sense when they were WAY faster than anything comparable price-wise stock. They stayed at 300hp and eventually even a FWD-based Golf R is more powerful

I remember going to a STi dealership 15 years ago to actually get one... I just couldn't go through with it. It just screams boy racer. I couldn't imagine being over 20 with one.

This isn't BMW snobbishness by the way. A Camaro ZL1 is way cool, but still more understated than a EVO/STi with the huge wing

[GT3fan]

OP, I would go for the Evo X. It will be a lot more fun to drive than the e90m. Clearly, the m3 has a nicer interior and looks more mature, but daily driving civility doesn’t appear to be your concern. Personally, I think slammed M3s with blingy 20” wheels look more boy racer than an Evo and defeat the purpose of the m3’s discrete sport sedan focus which I covet. If fun to drive is the focus, I’d rather drive a highly modded Evo X with no cosmetic upgrades and care less what others think.

The e90 m3 are great cars, but if fun to drive quotient is your primary concern there are better options. The m3 is a compromise of near sports car performance and entry level luxury. I’d go for something more hardcore.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by 6ixSpd

Well of course proper coilovers are going to be better than a factory setup. You are comparing aftermarket items designed over half a decade after the E9X M3's inception (and thus it's technology of the time), and using that as a reference point to judge the stock setup. Pretty dumb to do that. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Stock for stock, in it's class the stock suspension is absolutely not terrible. A set of proper coilovers better make the stock setup feel terrible otherwise it's a waste of money.

Not really... the DFV technology was available back in 2003 or so. I ran them on my Evo 8. BMW purposely chose comfort over performance and continue to do so in their cars. Even in the new M cars, it is still not that great. But this is not necessarily a bad thing. The M3 is designed to fill many purposes, not the singular purpose many pure sports cars are designed for.