Gintani twin turbo m3 e85 results!!! ***Dyno video added***

[FMLYSDN]

Congrats Man!

Enjoy and let us know how it continues to run.

[ats*ben]

Some slight misinformation, octane doesn't allow you to increase boost. It allows you to advance ignition timing, prevent pre-ignition and to prevent detonation. Take water/methanol injection; you aren't adding any octane to the fuel but you are cooling Intake Air Temperature which will allow you to advance ignition timing and/or increase boost.

[pbonsalb]

Then why does running E85 allow more boost than pump gas before detonation destroys the motor, even with the same timing?

[ASBSECU E93]

Sweet Mother....Well, 'bout time I just threw the Supercharger kit in the trash.

[Mit_Boost]

Originally Posted by ats*ben

Some slight misinformation, octane doesn't allow you to increase boost. It allows you to advance ignition timing, prevent pre-ignition and to prevent detonation.

What?! Of course higher octane allows you to run higher boost, that's probably one of the best benefits of running a turbo (variable boost curves and boost targets). You really expect anybody to believe that the UGR Twin Turbo builds go from 1,000 WHP (Pump Gas) to 1,500 WHP (Race Gas) just from changes in the timing curve?!

Just tipping E85 into the tank and retuning the ECU to deliver the correct volume of fuel isn’t going to really harness the power potential of E85. If you want to take advantage of the fuel you’re going to need to add some ignition advance, increase the boost pressure, or both.

SpeedHunters

A higher octane fuel (such as E85 octane or 117 octane) resists detonation so you can run more boost or more timing and make more power without hurting the engine.

FSR Motorsports

[Mspired]

Originally Posted by S65M

Ess fan boys be like " naw bro, not possible". Amazing # cant believe it ! Congrats!!

Hasn't ESS already built a 700whp car. And like 4 years ago. Not sure why this would be so hard to believe given all the time it's taken.

[L4ces]

Originally Posted by Mspired

Hasn't ESS already built a 700whp car. And like 4 years ago. Not sure why this would be so hard to believe given all the time it's taken.

It seems like that's just a rumor. I haven't seen anything maybe I missed it. I've only heard references to this 700 hp car.

[Mspired]

Originally Posted by L4ces

It seems like that's just a rumor. I haven't seen anything maybe I missed it. I've only heard references to this 700 hp car.

Drew's car did 700whp.

[Lucrecio84]

Originally Posted by Mspired

Drew's car did 700whp.

I never saw any graphs or anything but I heard he was in the 600's. Also wasn't this with a built motor?

[Mspired]

Originally Posted by Lucrecio84

I never saw any graphs or anything but I heard he was in the 600's. Also wasn't this with a built motor?

He's posted many graphs. I recall seeing 690whp or so. But I'm sure you can find it if you search for it.

And yes, it was a built motor.

[OM VT3]

Originally Posted by Mspired

He's posted many graphs. I recall seeing 690whp or so. But I'm sure you can find it if you search for it.

And yes, it was a built motor.

Drew did 710whp on 14psi on 93 but he was maxing out the blower theres built cars makeing around 800whp on 93 with e86 they could make much more

You aren't really comparing apples with apples

[Mspired]

Originally Posted by OM VT3

Drew did 710whp on 14psi on 93 but he was maxing out the blower theres built cars makeing around 800whp on 93 with e86 they could make much more

You aren't really comparing apples with apples

Thanks...

My post wasn't really a comparison. Just responding to a earlier comment by stating that ESS has 700whp cars.

[OM VT3]

Originally Posted by Mspired

Thanks...

My post wasn't really a comparison. Just responding to a earlier comment by stating that ESS has 700whp cars.

Sad that regular guy isn't here any longer, but his dyno database is still up and running. So many people seem to have forgotten where to look for results.

http://www.s65dynos.com

Type 'STD' into the search window. None of these records have yet been broken.

[Mit_Boost]

~2 years ago, VT33 made 725 WHP/507 WTQ with a 4.4L built stroker motor with a Vortech V2-TI (bigger than the standard V3-Si that comes with the ESS/VF kits. I believe he's cranked the boost up since then and is closer to 800 WHP, but who knows.

**EDIT -- IMG made 785 WHP/528 WTQ with his low compression ESS VT3 setup after it was paired with the ARH headers/exhaust system and some head port/polishing

Meanwhile, Gintani has now shown that with a twin turbo setup, you can get 700 WHP and nearly 500 WTQ on a stock motor. While the Gintani turbo system is more expensive then the established supercharger options, it balances out when you factor in the cost of building a low compression motor to achieve that power with a supercharger. Furthermore, the turbo system will put less stress on the rotating assembly (i.e., reduced wear on engine bearings) than a supercharged setup (which applies lots of stress on the crank because of the belt system). Plus, if someone could overlay the curves, I'm sure there's a considerable difference in the area under the curve.

[OM VT3]

Originally Posted by Mit_Boost

~2 years ago, VT33 made 725 WHP/507 WTQ with a 4.4L built stroker motor with a Vortech V2-TI (bigger than the standard V3-Si that comes with the ESS/VF kits. I believe he's cranked the boost up since then and is closer to 800 WHP, but who knows.

**EDIT -- IMG made 785 WHP/528 WTQ with his low compression ESS VT3 setup after it was paired with the ARH headers/exhaust system and some head port/polishing

Meanwhile, Gintani has now shown that with a twin turbo setup, you can get 700 WHP and nearly 500 WTQ on a stock motor. While the Gintani turbo system is more expensive then the established supercharger options, it balances out when you factor in the cost of building a low compression motor to achieve that power with a supercharger. Furthermore, the turbo system will put less stress on the rotating assembly (i.e., reduced wear on engine bearings) than a supercharged setup (which applies lots of stress on the crank because of the belt system). Plus, if someone could overlay the curves, I'm sure there's a considerable difference in the area under the curve.

Remember they arent using e85 and also havent even turned boost up all the way....Lets first see how long the stock motor holds up because it will only be so long before the rod snaps.

Everyone talks about the area under the curve but what use is it if you cant get the power to the ground correct with the SC setup?

[hayes180]

This is Insane.... congrats

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by OM VT3

Remember they arent using e85 and also havent even turned boost up all the way....Lets first see how long the stock motor holds up because it will only be so long before the rod snaps.

Everyone talks about the area under the curve but what use is it if you cant get the power to the ground correct with the SC setup?

lord where do you all get these claims. now rods snapp at 700whp? who and what m3 have you seen do that to make such a claim?

[Mspired]

Originally Posted by Properstyle

lord where do you all get these claims. now rods snapp at 700whp? who and what m3 have you seen do that to make such a claim?

And how long do you suppose a 700+whp M3 will last on a stock motor?

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by Mspired

And how long do you suppose a 700+whp M3 will last on a stock motor?

The better question is why you are doubting it not lasting. The only reason people have to go low compression, on a blower with pump gas you see detonation which causes the stress on the rods and pistons causing them to snap. On e85 there are low nearly close to no detonation properties and running two 30series gt turbos the air is actually much cooler then on a blower setup. The dyno graph shows a motor that is not fighting to make the power. Out side of the plagued rod bearing issue that motor should last with no issue on 700whp on e85. Of course how the driver treats the car will have more to do with that. 700/8 is 90whp per cylinder lol..

[Mit_Boost]

Originally Posted by OM VT3

Remember they arent using e85 and also havent even turned boost up all the way....Lets first see how long the stock motor holds up because it will only be so long before the rod snaps.

Everyone talks about the area under the curve but what use is it if you cant get the power to the ground correct with the SC setup?

They're clearly tuning to keep TQ down to avoid over stressing the factory rods. And traction is an entirely separate conversation from the engine performance (see a properly set up suspension, tires, etc. etc.).

And I would be concerned about the rods -- We're talking about an NA, high revving motor that was not designed for boost. By adding twin turbos, we're adding lots of low-end TQ that continues across the entire RPM range. Not a direct comparison, but the Porsche 997.1 Turbo (higher strength Mezger motor) stock tunes around 400 WHP/400 WTQ (TQ is what kills rods, so ignore that HP numbers for now). After upgrading everything, you can get into the 900 WHP area, but you cannot go above 700 WTQ safely. So the breaking point on a high performance, high quality, racing derived factory boosted motor is double the WTQ.

The E9x M3 M3 stock dynos around 350 WHP/300 WTQ, but like I said when I started, this motor was never intended/designed to be boosted, and I've be very conscious of going above 500 WTQ on stock rods (if not for my conscious, then in fear of the costs and headaches associated with sourcing a new block when something breaks).

[Someone?]

Originally Posted by Mspired

Hasn't ESS already built a 700whp car. And like 4 years ago. Not sure why this would be so hard to believe given all the time it's taken.

BluDevils car was Around 700hp if i remember correct.

With this Awesome TT kit, man i would do a 10.2cr, H beam motor, no way it stays together long without that IMO

Anyway AWESOME Car Bro. for real! LOVE TURBO's!!

[Mspired]

Originally Posted by Properstyle

The better question is why you are doubting it not lasting. The only reason people have to go low compression, on a blower with pump gas you see detonation which causes the stress on the rods and pistons causing them to snap. On e85 there are low nearly close to no detonation properties and running two 30series gt turbos the air is actually much cooler then on a blower setup. The dyno graph shows a motor that is not fighting to make the power. Out side of the plagued rod bearing issue that motor should last with no issue on 700whp on e85. Of course how the driver treats the car will have more to do with that. 700/8 is 90whp per cylinder lol..

I'm not doubting. Simple question to gain further knowledge. This is a nice accomplishment and a step in the right direction. I'm more interested in seeing this platform go beyond 900whp. 700whp is nice but its been done by every other M3 so far.