Track forum general chit chat.

[///Mobbin]

Anyone else in for COTA next weekend?

Car is ready! Solo 2 DL ready to log some DCT temps as well.

[b4hand]

Originally Posted by ///Mobbin

Anyone else in for COTA next weekend?

Car is ready! Solo 2 DL ready to log some DCT temps as well.

I'll be "there" but just to spectate.

[rhyary]

Just got back from car clinic control at LRP.
Basically ice rink.
participated in my work car.
it was nice to go out and drive, but in all season tires wasn't much of a learning experience i was hoping for.

An E90 M3 with blizzak tires and child seat was not doing better.
.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by rhyary

Just got back from car clinic control at LRP.
Basically ice rink.
participated in my work car.
it was nice to go out and drive, but in all season tires wasn't much of a learning experience i was hoping for.

An E90 M3 with blizzak tires and child seat was not doing better.
.

I can't think of much better car control practice then driving on ice. Why didn't you find it productive?

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by tsk94

I can't think of much better car control practice then driving on ice. Why didn't you find it productive?

There was no grip at all.
Car just slides sideway @ 10mph.
Also waiting behind a Miata that could not move beyond 5mph and no pointby system was not very productive.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by rhyary

There was no grip at all.
Car just slides sideway @ 10mph.
Also waiting behind a Miata that could not move beyond 5mph and no pointby system was not very productive.

I signed up my daughter to drive on a frozen lake (Georgetown Lake) up in the mountains here in CO with BMW CCA. It was supposed to happen last weekend. Buuuut the temps have been too warm and the ice wasn’t deep enough……so it was canceled. Been trying for two years to get her on that lake….just hasn’t worked out.

And then today she tells me she slid on ice yesterday and lost control for a few seconds…….dang it!

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by rhyary

There was no grip at all.
Car just slides sideway @ 10mph.
Also waiting behind a Miata that could not move beyond 5mph and no pointby system was not very productive.

That's sort of the point of driving on a low grip surface lol. No grip and car control practice are a perfect pairing!

Not sure how exactly the clinic was run, but if you were stuck behind cars unable to actually drive and push yourself, then it does sound unproductive. But, if you're saying no grip meant it was unproductive that makes absolutely zero sense

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by dogbone

I signed up my daughter to drive on a frozen lake (Georgetown Lake) up in the mountains here in CO with BMW CCA. It was supposed to happen last weekend. Buuuut the temps have been too warm and the ice wasn’t deep enough……so it was canceled. Been trying for two years to get her on that lake….just hasn’t worked out.

And then today she tells me she slid on ice yesterday and lost control for a few seconds…….dang it!

I know for a majority of members that frequent this forum it won't apply, but for those that live in area where you can drive on a frozen lake I strongly urge you to if you haven't.

Beyond being incredibly fun, it's also excellent car control practice to an extent that simply cannot be matched with any road course driving. It really hones your seat of the pants feel for what the car is doing, understeer or oversteer and the car is much more sensitive to inputs (particularly the pedals). It really forces you to be deliberate and smooth with the inputs you put in.

dogbone Shame your daughter wasn't able to attend that. If you haven't done one yourself, sign up for one with her! I'm sure you'd have a ton of fun as well.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by tsk94

That's sort of the point of driving on a low grip surface lol. No grip and car control practice are a perfect pairing!

Not sure how exactly the clinic was run, but if you were stuck behind cars unable to actually drive and push yourself, then it does sound unproductive. But, if you're saying no grip meant it was unproductive that makes absolutely zero sense

The CCC course has a small hill that cars could not climb it. The sessions were very short so most of the time either waiting for the session, or waiting in the session on track because we were not allowed to bypass the car in front of us.

If it was continuously run, and you had time to figure out how to handle low traction conditions then yes, it is educational.

But if you get two laps, and most of the lap you standing still, than not much learning. I did not mean to complain about the conditions of low traction.

[roastbeef]

knowing you, you showed up with snow tires on the front and summer tires on the rear to experiment.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

knowing you, you showed up with snow tires on the front and summer tires on the rear to experiment.

The other way around.

[leftfootbr8king]

I attended a car control clinic for 30 years by growing up on a farm surrounded by gravel roads and a lake in the upper Midwest. Learned how to drift things that have no business being drifted, not because I thought I would be a HPDE champion someday, but because it was a blast.

Can't think of a better skid pad than a frozen lake, but if you don't have that try and find an open parking lot with a fresh layer of snow at midnight and start throwing your dd into slides until the cops tell you knock it off.

Paying to slide on a small piece of wet tarmac would be my last choice.

Learning car control doesn't have to happen in your track car. It can happen in 40k lb grain trucks, quads, your grandpas '64 C10. Anything with wheels, really.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by leftfootbr8king

Can't think of a better skid pad than a frozen lake, but if you don't have that try and find an open parking lot with a fresh layer of snow at midnight and start throwing your dd into slides until the cops tell you knock it off.

Paying to slide on a small piece of wet tarmac would be my last choice.

Yes. I agree 100%. Open space to test the limits would be a best place. This was not what was available. Most parking lots have cameras now and a security guard shows up almost immediately.

It is frustrating because I know what i need and it is not readily available.

While i grew up in a similar environment, I did not have access to machines that can drift. I tried on tractors but they most likely tip over than drift on agriculture fields. No snow or ice, ever, growing up.

[Ximian]

Been driving in MN for a long time where either the snow is compacted on the roads (very slippery) or there is ice on the roads (very, very slippery) for 15 months of the year.

I'm great at detecting and correcting the beginning of the tail becoming loose but now I have that habit and it's difficult to ignore the corrective action instinct on the track in perfect conditions. There really aren't any events that cater to people learning how to "drift" so it's hard to practice enough times to overcome the instinct.

Great fun to be had on a frozen lake but not always useful or helpful.

[Bartledoo]

So, question for you guys. On the student’s car that I talked about last week, the springs on his MCS were boinging away when the wheels were steered. His shop still said it is normal, which I know it’s not. When I watched through the wheel well while he turned the wheel, the spring was not rotating with the shock body 100% (causing the spring to constantly skip), so the top perch is not spinning freely relative to the chassis. Is this potentially an assembly error with the MCS?

Edit: also forgot to mention that I just ordered Conti Force tires for the M3 - 295/30r18 square. They will be on both track cars now. Tired of dealing with and paying for used DH and short-life tires, and I feel like I'll have more fun going a couple seconds slower and getting to play with at least a few cars rather than constantly being held up at DE's anyways. Arriving at every event and not doing anything but drive, teach, and hang out also sounds very nice...

[M eyedoc]

Or you could just drive around!

[rhyary]

I typed all this and the application froze on me.
I don't feel like retyping everything so I took a screen shot :-)

I have been watching the 1966 movie Grand Prix…
.
.
.

[e92BMW///M3]

Originally Posted by rhyary

There was no grip at all.
Car just slides sideway @ 10mph.
Also waiting behind a Miata that could not move beyond 5mph and no pointby system was not very productive.

I wanted to take my X5M to one of these events at LRP but disappointed to hear some of this. Were all the cars on the mandated snow tires (or all seasons if you have AWD) and it was just that low grip getting up the hill in the middle of the course? Or were some cars not on the ‘correct’ tires and they didn’t do anything about it? I thought yesterdays event was $350 or so, so I’d have been upset if the driving time was limited by them not enforcing the tire rules but if they did and it was just that low grip I’m surprised they didn’t just run on the lower course which is pretty flat if memory serves me relative to the upper course or full course.

Usually LRP is on top of things in my experience.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by e92BMW///M3

I wanted to take my X5M to one of these events at LRP but disappointed to hear some of this. Were all the cars on the mandated snow tires (or all seasons if you have AWD) and it was just that low grip getting up the hill in the middle of the course? Or were some cars not on the 'correct' tires and they didn't do anything about it? I thought yesterdays event was $350 or so, so I'd have been upset if the driving time was limited by them not enforcing the tire rules but if they did and it was just that low grip I'm surprised they didn't just run on the lower course which is pretty flat if memory serves me relative to the upper course or full course.

Usually LRP is on top of things in my experience.

It was the full course and the hill connects the lower part to the upper part.

I enjoyed that part that it was the full course.

The issue we deal with is that what you do to be productive, and what you do that effect other participants that paid $350.

This first part is your business. My work car is AWD and is on BFGOODRICH G-FORCE COMP-2 A/S PLUS and we can argue about how good it is on frozen CCC surface or if a Blizzak could have been better or Michelin Ice, but I was not stuck. If I skidded off the ice into the snow, I drove away from the situation. The car behind me did not have to stop and wait for me.

The second part is the responsibility of the organization and one driver to his fellow participate.

My friend and I brought an E46 M3 to share for CCC. When we saw the conditions, I took my 535 xDrive and he used his towing truck and went about our day to have fun.

have we not adjusted our expectations and insisted on using the E46 M3 with summer tires, we might had fun sliding around, but we would have ruined the event for everyone else. There was no way for that E46 M3 going up the hill without trying 10 times.

and with a rule of no passing that was it for everyone else.

Anyway water (ice) under the bridge at this point.

[e36clubracer]

Those of you running pirelli slicks. Where are you buying them from? I’m looking for new not take offs or scrubs.

I want to do back to back comparisons with Hoosier a7/r7.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by e36clubracer

Those of you running pirelli slicks. Where are you buying them from? I’m looking for new not take offs or scrubs.

I want to do back to back comparisons with Hoosier a7/r7.

Frisby Tires is the main source for Pirelli DH. Other places may sell or stock them, but Frisby is the source. Frisby is also the source if you need something special ordered directly from Pirelli corporate like DM compounds.

In my experience, DH is 1-2 seconds faster than A7. I did side by side same day comparison of new DH and A7 this past summer.

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by ///Mobbin

Anyone else in for COTA next weekend?

Car is ready! Solo 2 DL ready to log some DCT temps as well.

Will be there instructing and driving my FRS