e92 M3 vs. 2011 GT3RS

[991GT3]

Let the guy be.
That said, if he wants to sell it, I'll buy it.
Always wanted a GT3.

[SUB-ZERO]

Originally Posted by TenThousdandRPM

I hear you playa. And that is precisely why this comparison is inane. This is apples to mangos and these cars serve different purposes. If we left it at then we would be fine. But then there is this:



And you know that kind of pronouncement cannot be left unchallenged. So as I said already, feel free to express your opinion, but you better be prepared to stand up and defend it when we bring the heat.

Apple to Mangos...LOL! Haven't heard that in a while!

Both cars have a certain level of overlap in the performance area but they really are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

Personally, an M3 compares more to a Carrera or Carrera S and even then, I would say Porsche's in general are more at the other end of the spectrum in terms of being more driver focused and performance oriented.

The M3 is a good compromise between performance and luxury..the key word being "compromise" and as a true sports/race car, it is obviously compromised.

I wonder how the GT3RS compared to the M3 GTS? M3GTS vs GT3 is more of a comparison although the GTSRS may still edge it out.

I was watching a vid last night comparing the GT3RS cup car and the GT3RS and they are basically the same car...80% in fact. That is amazing!

-SZ

[SUB-ZERO]

Originally Posted by 997GT3

Let the guy be.
That said, if he wants to sell it, I'll buy it.
Always wanted a GT3.

You and me both!

[SUB-ZERO]

Originally Posted by attila

I just got a 2011 GT3 RS and thought I would share some impressions comparing it to the M3. I would have welcomed some real life comparison between these two cars even though they are not direct competitors. I was really searching everywhere online, but the only thing I could get is the usual praise of the RS and very few comparison tests.
Before I decided to go with the GT3RS I drove the ZR-1 and the GT-R and liked them a lot. I could not, however drive the RS, not even the regular 997.2 GT3. (When I ordered the car I put down 8K deposit which seemed a big leap of faith especially since my prior Porsche experience was limited to few laps in a C2S, and I was not blown away by that. The M3 felt better. The C2S front end seemed moving up and down quite a bit and the steering changed a lot accelerating out of turns.
Anyway, I cannot really tell why I chose the GT3RS instead of the GT-R or the Vette. I still don’t know. I ordered the car as light as possible (PCCB brakes, Li-battery, light headlight) my CA talked me out of the radio delete for resale purposes.

(The pics are not great, some of them were taken when I was about to put the clear bra on.)
Cabin and ergonomics: I was afraid of issues here. Mainly the bucket seats. They are OK but not as comfy as the M3 seats. You can adjust them only back and forth.. I would tilt a touch back the whole seat, not just the back if I could. The shifter is right at hand, no issue there. (With the M3 I needed some adjustment, the center armrest was in the way for my elbow.) Clutch is very heavy but not bad overall. Easy to modulate. (The M3 clutch feels like sooo light after the RS. The whole M3 feels like a luxury car after the RS anyway.) The shifter is heavier too, maybe a touch better engagements than in the M3. Surely it will improve with brake in.
Engine: The RS engine out of the box feels a somewhat more powerful than the M3 but not like the ZR-1. (I cannot comment on WOT acceleration on the GT-R – did not try during test-drive) The car feels like going fast all the time, in a way like my MX-5. With the M3 speed is more stealthy. You can easily end up in triple digits without noticing it. Not with the RS. I mean you can end up in triple digit speed easily but you will notice it for sure. The M3 with my AA exhaust, ECU tune, MS filter, etc has a better engine note. You can talk about engine sound all day, but in the end it is a subjective thing. I personally prefer the M3 at 7-8K. (I did not try the RS above 5K yet and it seems the noise improves above 3K).
Which car is the faster? Well, the M3 is more than enough on public roads. The RS maybe a tad faster but I don’t think that matters at all in traffic.
Steering is unquestionably better in the RS. Heavier but with very nice feedback The whole car feels very planted. Ride comfort is not as bad as I thought. It’s like the medium setting on our EDC. The car feels very solid, virtually no body roll.
The major problem is road noise. And this is a big issue in and around Omaha. Bad asphalt and concrete makes the car so loud that you cannot hear the engine at all below 4K. Not even in sport mode which will open up the exhaust a bit. I was on call when I picked up the car and had to return a page. I could not hear anything on the phone at all. Had to stop and recall. And I was driving on a relatively good road surface!! Maybe the 325 section width MPSC+ rear tires are the culprit but you do not want to drive this car across Nebraska without stopping.
My wife was so upset about the road noise; she wanted me to take the car back to the dealer. I am glad I did not order/ install the European plastic rear window as I planned for weight reduction.
The whole experience reminds me of the first bottle of Lafit-Rothschild wine you try. You think its gone be something unearthly, something beyond wine, then you try it and realize its is still a wine, quite good one, but cannot match your dreams and you feel disappointed somewhat.
The bottom line is the M3 is a very good middle ground between performance and comfort at it’s price point.

BTW, I had some alone time with the pictures of your GT3RS last night! LOL!

[attila]

My intention was very benign when I started this thread and did not want to offend anyone.
I merely wanted to give away a first impression / comparison since I had searched for similar review in the past unsucessfuly. I jumped into ordering a car - leaving 8K deposit on it - without any prior driving experience. I do read lots of car magazines but reviews on expensive cars are difficult to trust. (Ferrari, Porsche, Lambo, etc)
When I got the car I was happy that the ergonomics are OK - ergo bucket seats, hand position for the shifter, pedal layout, etc. - and that's what I would have figured out on a test drive. I tried to put this down in a review comparing the car - RS - to the M3 since on this forum we all know the M3. I did not leave a negative review on the RS at all. At least in my opinion it was not negative. My only grippe was the road noise. Again I am not intending to drive this car as a DD. The reason why I doing it right now is the brake in period. (I decided yesterday 1200 miles brake in will be enough.)


Someone asked about the centerlock but could not find the post now.
Well it is a pain in the ... I got a huge torque wrench (tooltopia is the cheapest if you are interested), a brake pedal depressor, - since asking my wife to help would be suicidal. It is not easy, just tried for brake fluid change (to SRF) and you can rotate the wheel with the torque wrench easily, even the rear with parking brake on!!!. You need the brake pedal depressor. I took the car somewhat appart. Headlight, badge out for clear bra -doing it myself - tried the center locks, checked the reachable cooling line fitting - known problem with the Mezger - fitting on these lines can part leading to catastrophic sudden cooling loss. (you cannot see all of them, tried with mirrors etc. Tried to change the sway bar settings etc. So I am working on the car quite a bit.

I think with this post I will quit on this thread, it apparently did not turn out as I intended.
I have to run anyway.

[M3Fool]

Originally Posted by TenThousdandRPM

I hear you playa. And that is precisely why this comparison is inane. This is apples to mangos and these cars serve different purposes. If we left it at then we would be fine. But then there is this:



And you know that kind of pronouncement cannot be left unchallenged. So as I said already, feel free to express your opinion, but you better be prepared to stand up and defend it when we bring the heat.

All right Momar........ put the cheesy pretzles and kool-aid down and step away from the keyboard!!!!

If you love your car....., glad you do, you drive it and your experience is YOURS and YOURS alone........ but step down from the podium and allow someone else to have their own opinion with out your input as to how they SHOULD feel.

[saeyedoc]

Originally Posted by SUB-ZERO

Personally, an M3 compares more to a Carrera or Carrera S and even then, I would say Porsche's in general are more at the other end of the spectrum in terms of being more driver focused and performance oriented.

The M3 is a good compromise between performance and luxury..the key word being "compromise" and as a true sports/race car, it is obviously compromised.

By the time you add in options, the M3 is more in line price wise with a base Cayman than any 911, maybe a Cayman S. I just ordered a modestly optoned Cayman S, was pushing 80k. At that price point, an argument could be made that the M3 is more car for the money.
GT3 is in an entirely different league. I posted a link to this thread on some Porsche forums, it's amazing how many people would buy an GT3 RS without test driving even a basic GT3. Most of them have driven and owned other 911's, so the basic driving characteristics are familiar.

[991GT3]

Originally Posted by attila

My intention was very benign when I started this thread and did not want to offend anyone.
I merely wanted to give away a first impression / comparison since I had searched for similar review in the past unsucessfuly. I jumped into ordering a car - leaving 8K deposit on it - without any prior driving experience. I do read lots of car magazines but reviews on expensive cars are difficult to trust. (Ferrari, Porsche, Lambo, etc)
When I got the car I was happy that the ergonomics are OK - ergo bucket seats, hand position for the shifter, pedal layout, etc. - and that's what I would have figured out on a test drive. I tried to put this down in a review comparing the car - RS - to the M3 since on this forum we all know the M3. I did not leave a negative review on the RS at all. At least in my opinion it was not negative. My only grippe was the road noise. Again I am not intending to drive this car as a DD. The reason why I doing it right now is the brake in period. (I decided yesterday 1200 miles brake in will be enough.)


Someone asked about the centerlock but could not find the post now.
Well it is a pain in the ... I got a huge torque wrench (tooltopia is the cheapest if you are interested), a brake pedal depressor, - since asking my wife to help would be suicidal. It is not easy, just tried for brake fluid change (to SRF) and you can rotate the wheel with the torque wrench easily, even the rear with parking brake on!!!. You need the brake pedal depressor. I took the car somewhat appart. Headlight, badge out for clear bra -doing it myself - tried the center locks, checked the reachable cooling line fitting - known problem with the Mezger - fitting on these lines can part leading to catastrophic sudden cooling loss. (you cannot see all of them, tried with mirrors etc. Tried to change the sway bar settings etc. So I am working on the car quite a bit.

I think with this post I will quit on this thread, it apparently did not turn out as I intended.
I have to run anyway.

I'm not trying to ride you. I would, though, be curious as to what you expected when you bought a more hardcore example of Porsche's most hardcore mass production 911? It wasn't intended as a DD ( if I had one I might drive it as much as my DD).

[attila]

Originally Posted by 997GT3

I'm not trying to ride you. I would, though, be curious as to what you expected when you bought a more hardcore example of Porsche's most hardcore mass production 911? It wasn't intended as a DD ( if I had one I might drive it as much as my DD).

You are not riding me at all!!
I got what I expected and the whole post was not about not liking the car, but listing observations / facts that are very different an the RS compared to the M3. Again, I was looking for some sort of comparison between these two cars. Maybe my language was not clear and came across as not liking the RS.

[991GT3]

Originally Posted by attila

You are not riding me at all!!
I got what I expected and the whole post was not about not liking the car, but listing observations / facts that are very different an the RS compared to the M3. Again, I was looking for some sort of comparison between these two cars. Maybe my language was not clear and came across as not liking the RS.

Cool. I'm jealous of your car. I hope once you open it up it's as much fun as I think it will be. I have only test driven a 997 GT3RS for 20 minutes and I didn't open it up(so I have no clue).

[SUB-ZERO]

Originally Posted by shift@red

That hits the nail on the head right there. Although, these days the 911 line short of the GT cars are quite refined. They just still retain a lot od edgin

GT3 or GT3 RS are more similar to the M3 GTS but the M3 GTS is about 5 years behind as its more at the level of a 997.1 GT3 or GT3 RS, not of the current 997.2 GT3/GT3 RS. 997.2 GT3 RS does more than just edge it out.
Here's Chris Harris' review
http://www.teamspeed.com/forums/m/44...ws-m3-gts.html

Makes sense. The M3 GTS is based off the e92 m3, which is a 4 year old design.

-SZ

[devo]

Originally Posted by 997GT3

Let the guy be.
That said, if he wants to sell it, I'll buy it.
Always wanted a GT3.

Hey ~ Congrats on the new GTR! I love the color. The facelift really improved the look.

[mdosu]

this thread is going to shit in a matter of 4 hours....

[991GT3]

Originally Posted by devo

Hey ~ Congrats on the new GTR! I love the color. The facelift really improved the look.

Thanks. I'm still pining for a GT3 though.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by TenThousdandRPM

Boom. There is your violent torpedo of truth.

Lots of m3fot in this thread. I hope I meet the OP at a track weekend one day to see what kind of lap times he puts down in his GT3RS.

[dalton]

one does not simply walk into a porsche dealership and purchase a GT3RS

[peterbigblock]

Atilla, interesting and thought-provoking comparison (some peoples' thoughts more easily provoked than others, apparently). I'm not surprised, of course, that the M3 is more of a grand tourer than the RS. I've driven the E92 M3 on track (at MAM) and didn't care much for it but as a day-to-day car I can't think of a single car I'd like better. Vice-versa for the GT3 (non-RS) which is an epiphany on the track but not what I'd want to drive to work in every day.

So why not have both?! Cheers for pulling that off. I do wish you could have come to MAM last Saturday as we had a really great time and got a lot of cobwebs blown out. (Except KY, who experienced first-hand your cooling system concerns in his GT3.) With only a few hundred miles on, though, you made the right call imho.

See you at MAM on 4/8, and see you over on the P-car forum where we're a little less militant about who can write what about their own cars.

[SUB-ZERO]

Originally Posted by dalton

one does not simply walk into a porsche dealership and purchase a GT3RS

I did.

I walked right up to the parts counter and purchased the little Hot Wheels GT3RS in the glass case.




-SZ

[devo]

Originally Posted by 997GT3

Thanks. I'm still pining for a GT3 though.

You'll get one eventually. I see you have yet to relinquish your avatar.

I have the same itch for a 2012 GTR. Only issue is that it would be my dd as I couldn't let go of the GT3. Two cars for me and one for my fiance is enough.

[attila]

Originally Posted by peterbigblock

Atilla, interesting and thought-provoking comparison (some peoples' thoughts more easily provoked than others, apparently). I'm not surprised, of course, that the M3 is more of a grand tourer than the RS. I've driven the E92 M3 on track (at MAM) and didn't care much for it but as a day-to-day car I can't think of a single car I'd like better. Vice-versa for the GT3 (non-RS) which is an epiphany on the track but not what I'd want to drive to work in every day.

So why not have both?! Cheers for pulling that off. I do wish you could have come to MAM last Saturday as we had a really great time and got a lot of cobwebs blown out. (Except KY, who experienced first-hand your cooling system concerns in his GT3.) With only a few hundred miles on, though, you made the right call imho.

See you at MAM on 4/8, and see you over on the P-car forum where we're a little less militant about who can write what about their own cars.

Thanks,

I just could not make it last Saturday. I picked up the car AM, then I got paged, had to go in, and it was already 3:00PM and felt sick a little bit. Plus my wife needed some help to understand why we need 4 cars. Well, you know she did not know about the RS until Friday night.
I will make it on 4/8 either with the M3 or the RS. I try to accelerate the RS brake in, plenned 200miles today but the snow came.

[AngelinIsRich08]

What an interesting review. However, as I was reading it I began to realize that you'd be an Audi R8 guy. It's in the GT3RS price range and is much more comfortable. It's got an amazing exhaust note and I'm sure your wife would've loved it. Performance wise, it'd have been perfect for the Omaha roads and traffic; a notch above the M3 in speed but much cooler to drive. Just wondering why you never tested it out....

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08

What an interesting review. However, as I was reading it I began to realize that you'd be an Audi R8 guy. It's in the GT3RS price range and is much more comfortable. It's got an amazing exhaust note and I'm sure your wife would've loved it. Performance wise, it'd have been perfect for the Omaha roads and traffic; a notch above the M3 in speed but much cooler to drive. Just wondering why you never tested it out....

Quit talking.

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