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      06-16-2018, 07:01 AM   #45
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Shot down my 350R Dream lol
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      06-16-2018, 10:20 AM   #46
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Shot down my 350R Dream lol
Oh the power of the internet...
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      06-16-2018, 04:02 PM   #47
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Oh the power of the internet...
Yea, whenever they bring up the S65 I just point out this thread. Far more losses with the GT350 for the short period of time they have been out.

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      06-18-2018, 03:44 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Dave07997S View Post
Yea, whenever they bring up the S65 I just point out this thread. Far more losses with the GT350 for the short period of time they have been out.

Dave
Three other important comparisons to make:


1. Production numbers on the Voodoo 5.2L V8 are way lower than the S65, even if you just look at annual averages.

2. The S65 was a sized-down version of an existing engine, and design choices were made to correct earlier problems (the biggest being the switch to low-pressure VANOS). The Voodoo is only very loosely related to the Coyote 5.0 V8.

3. The Voodoo was rushed to production. Raj Nair, the former lead of Ford Performance, admitted that it had a short development timeline and was a bit of an emotional decision to do it ("we're doing this!"). This may have adversely affected their R&D / testing programs.
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      06-18-2018, 04:15 PM   #49
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My friend's GT350R burned up on track in TN. Ford claimed it was from a bad oil change. He said great, you guys did the oil change, can I have my money back? Then he went out and bought a new ZO6. 1 year later, zero issues.
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      06-18-2018, 04:34 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Three other important comparisons to make:


1. Production numbers on the Voodoo 5.2L V8 are way lower than the S65, even if you just look at annual averages.

2. The S65 was a sized-down version of an existing engine, and design choices were made to correct earlier problems (the biggest being the switch to low-pressure VANOS). The Voodoo is only very loosely related to the Coyote 5.0 V8.

3. The Voodoo was rushed to production. Raj Nair, the former lead of Ford Performance, admitted that it had a short development timeline and was a bit of an emotional decision to do it ("we're doing this!"). This may have adversely affected their R&D / testing programs.

Agreed 100% on this. This makes the extrapolation even worse. Whenever there is a comparison to the E9X M3 they always bring up the RBs.

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      06-19-2018, 09:14 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thasuperdude View Post
My friend's GT350R burned up on track in TN. Ford claimed it was from a bad oil change. He said great, you guys did the oil change, can I have my money back? Then he went out and bought a new ZO6. 1 year later, zero issues.
Really it doesn't overheat on the track like everyone says?
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      06-19-2018, 09:14 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave07997S View Post
Yea, whenever they bring up the S65 I just point out this thread. Far more losses with the GT350 for the short period of time they have been out.

Dave
But at least Ford is doing it right and replacing motors (regardless of whether or not the car has seen track time) unlike BMW. It still bothers me a lot that BMW initially denied my warranty claim when my motor failed because they investigated videos of my car on track (HPDE) on youtube and called it racing and abuse.
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      06-19-2018, 09:19 AM   #53
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Really it doesn't overheat on the track like everyone says?
Well, given how friggin slow people are, I'm sure plenty of people driving Z06s don't overheat them
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      06-19-2018, 09:20 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
But at least Ford is doing it right and replacing motors (regardless of whether or not the car has seen track time) unlike BMW. It still bothers me a lot that BMW initially denied my warranty claim when my motor failed because they investigated videos of my car on track (HPDE) on youtube and called it racing and abuse.
BMW may have initially whatever but the rules about HPDE and warranty coverage are extremely clear.

BMW has replaced plenty of engines under warranty and tracking non competitively is covered, just like Ford, Porsche, etc.
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      06-19-2018, 09:27 AM   #55
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Really it doesn't overheat on the track like everyone says?
Nope. No issues.

And the owner isn't a "slow" driver. He's a National SCCA Auto-X Champion.

I still think the GT350R is one the sexiest cars out right now. Sights and sounds...
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      06-19-2018, 09:29 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thasuperdude View Post
Nope. No issues.

And the owner isn't a "slow" driver. He's a National SCCA Auto-X Champion.

I still think the GT350R is one the sexiest cars out right now. Sights and sounds...
Just goes to prove the amount of hyperbole out there.

If you drive a Z06 you're gonna overheat
If you drive a GT350 your gonna leak oil and your paint is gonna come off
If you drive an E92 your rod bearings are going to blow
If you drive an F80/F82 your Crank Hub is about to spin
Etc..

I guess the moral is if you're gonna drive a high end performance car you'll probably have to deal with some gremlins but most of these issues are overblown.
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      06-19-2018, 09:32 AM   #57
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Quote:
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Really it doesn't overheat on the track like everyone says?
The percentage of cars having that issue is actually a lot smaller than what you've been led to believe...kinda like rod bearings on the S65. There are always tons of Z06s at the track and I've never had one of them tell me it overheated and started cutting power.
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      06-19-2018, 09:37 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
The percentage of cars having that issue is actually a lot smaller than what you've been led to believe...kinda like rod bearings on the S65. There are always tons of Z06s at the track and I've never had one of them tell me it overheated and started cutting power.
Yep it was my poor attempt at being sarcastic
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      06-19-2018, 09:39 AM   #59
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I guess the moral is if you're gonna drive a high end performance car you'll probably have to deal with some gremlins but most of these issues are overblown.

I think this is really well said. You have to manage your own expectations. You are taking a street car and running it at the limit for an extended period. Things are going to break, overheat, wear out, or whatever. Hell, even full-blown race cars have problems.

There is no car that is immune to issues at the track.
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      06-19-2018, 10:01 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
The percentage of cars having that issue is actually a lot smaller than what you've been led to believe...kinda like rod bearings on the S65. There are always tons of Z06s at the track and I've never had one of them tell me it overheated and started cutting power.
I know a local guy with a C7 Z06 who had nothing but overheating problems on track. He sold it and bought a ZL1 1LE and is running much faster laps without any overheating issues.
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      06-19-2018, 10:05 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
I think this is really well said. You have to manage your own expectations. You are taking a street car and running it at the limit for an extended period. Things are going to break, overheat, wear out, or whatever. Hell, even full-blown race cars have problems.

There is no car that is immune to issues at the track.
Yup, that is my take too. I knew about the oil consumption issues with the GT350, but I bought anyways because there's something called a factory warranty (and extended warranty) which keeps you protected for a good 3-6 years depending on what package you get. The longest I ever kept a car was my E92 m3 and that was for 5 years. Sold it while I was still in my extended warranty period. If this car gives me constant issues, I will get rid of it and move on. But for now, I'm loving it.
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      06-19-2018, 10:52 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
I know a local guy with a C7 Z06 who had nothing but overheating problems on track. He sold it and bought a ZL1 1LE and is running much faster laps without any overheating issues.
iirc the automatic C7Z's were much more prone, and the ZL1 has more robust cooling

I have a friend who did one of those super car track experience programs in a auto C7Z and they literally hosed the engine down every few laps because it kept hitting limp mode. He'd never even seen a track before, notwithstanding that PTM probably made it easy to roast the engine.
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      06-19-2018, 11:34 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
11,800 miles, the high-revving engine has consumed 8.5 quarts.
I've got a lawn mower like that. Needs about 1/4 quart after an hour of mowing. The 350 might have a bit more power though.

Joking aside, I know a few guys with this motor and this problem is not unique to the C&D vehicle. These motors are screamers and sound incredible, but they have some apparent issues. I wonder if they have been sorted behinds the scenes for the '18 model years.

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      06-19-2018, 12:08 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Ngilbe36 View Post
I've got a lawn mower like that. Needs about 1/4 quart after an hour of mowing. The 350 might have a bit more power though.

Joking aside, I know a few guys with this motor and this problem is not unique to the C&D vehicle. Theses motors are screamers and sound incredible, but they have some apparent issues. I wonder if they have been sorted behinds the scenes for the '18 model years.
They sound soooooo good!
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      06-19-2018, 12:31 PM   #65
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Quote:
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iirc the automatic C7Z's were much more prone, and the ZL1 has more robust cooling

I have a friend who did one of those super car track experience programs in a auto C7Z and they literally hosed the engine down every few laps because it kept hitting limp mode. He'd never even seen a track before, notwithstanding that PTM probably made it easy to roast the engine.

The automatics are going to run hotter, yes. The fact that you have more gears means the engine spends more time in the powerband and near redline, which makes it run hotter.

The ZL1's cooling isn't really more robust, but it has a much larger frontal area and more grilles to get more air into the heat exchangers. The Z06's grilles and vents aren't much different from a regular Stingray.
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      06-19-2018, 02:38 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
The automatics are going to run hotter, yes. The fact that you have more gears means the engine spends more time in the powerband and near redline, which makes it run hotter.

The ZL1's cooling isn't really more robust, but it has a much larger frontal area and more grilles to get more air into the heat exchangers. The Z06's grilles and vents aren't much different from a regular Stingray.
Automatic Z06s are going to run hotter because it appears AT heat is exchanged with the engine rad. Manuals might be the same case but those boxes create less heat. IIRC, there is an additional cooler or heat exchanger that the autobox takes up space for.
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