Civic Type R - m3 replacement?

[Montaver]

Pretty much every super hatch out there now is as quick if not quicker than a stock M3. Doesn't mean they are better though..

For example, a 718 Cayman GTS is as fast around the ring as a GT4. Which would you rather have?

OP - CTR is a great car, I say go for it. The e9x is a brilliant platform, but there are plenty of other great experiences to be had in the automotive world.

[HadesM3]

Originally Posted by dparm

OP, I have not driven one. The automotive journalists really like it and say it's a new benchmark in the hot hatch segment. Sure, the styling is kinda funky, but the nice thing is that when you're driving it, you don't have to look at it. ;-)

Best advice I can give you is to go drive it for yourself and go with your gut.

From an economic perspective, I'm not sure why spending an additional $7,000 solves your problem -- you're complaining about standard maintenance/upkeep on the M3 costing $1-2k, but suddenly you want to drop $7k on a new car?

I’m hung up on the RB thing. My local Indy wants $3100 to replace w/ BEs and new engine mounts. Personally, I think it’s lame to pay out of pocket to replace RBs due to BMWs inept development work. Also, it would be painful to pay $12k for a used engine if you win the RB lottery and then be in the same place again.

On the other end of the spectrum I think an SS 1LE would be lots of fun too with the exception of fuel consumption

[LatifE90]

Originally Posted by ZombieM3

I’m hung up on the RB thing. My local Indy wants $3100 to replace w/ BEs and new engine mounts. Personally, I think it’s lame to pay out of pocket to replace RBs due to BMWs inept development work. Also, it would be painful to pay $12k for a used engine if you win the RB lottery and then be in the same place again.

On the other end of the spectrum I think an SS 1LE would be lots of fun too with the exception of fuel consumption

Just sell the M3 LOL

[BrewRifle]

Originally Posted by Montaver

Pretty much every super hatch out there now is as quick if not quicker than a stock M3. Doesn't mean they are better though..

For example, a 718 Cayman GTS is as fast around the ring as a GT4. Which would you rather have?

OP - CTR is a great car, I say go for it. The e9x is a brilliant platform, but there are plenty of other great experiences to be had in the automotive world.

I agree with you. People tend to forget that numbers are just numbers and that the experience of driving is what keeps people engaged in a vehicle. Numbness + performance has nothing on thrill/exhilaration + performance, hence to why the M4 is so lacking to a lot of people.

[HadesM3]

Originally Posted by Montaver

Pretty much every super hatch out there now is as quick if not quicker than a stock M3. Doesn't mean they are better though..

For example, a 718 Cayman GTS is as fast around the ring as a GT4. Which would you rather have?

OP - CTR is a great car, I say go for it. The e9x is a brilliant platform, but there are plenty of other great experiences to be had in the automotive world.

I bought my M3 thinking it would be a keeper. It truly is a great car, with the exception of some unexpected repairs. However, I’m not sure if there is such thing as a keeper for me no matter what car.

Then again the grass always looks greener elsewhere when in reality it may not.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by ZombieM3

I’m hung up on the RB thing. My local Indy wants $3100 to replace w/ BEs and new engine mounts. Personally, I think it’s lame to pay out of pocket to replace RBs due to BMWs inept development work. Also, it would be painful to pay $12k for a used engine if you win the RB lottery and then be in the same place again.

On the other end of the spectrum I think an SS 1LE would be lots of fun too with the exception of fuel consumption

Every car has its issues. Performance cars tend to have more since they're high-strung to begin with.

SS 1LE is the performance bargain of the year and will smoke an M3 on the track, but you'll need to get past the mediocre interior and meme-tier "Camaro owner" image.

[Youngh]

Originally Posted by ZombieM3

I’m hung up on the RB thing. My local Indy wants $3100 to replace w/ BEs and new engine mounts. Personally, I think it’s lame to pay out of pocket to replace RBs due to BMWs inept development work. Also, it would be painful to pay $12k for a used engine if you win the RB lottery and then be in the same place again.

On the other end of the spectrum I think an SS 1LE would be lots of fun too with the exception of fuel consumption

You need to really like this car to be ok with the maintenance costs unless you just have deep pockets. I hated spending any little penny on my 435, but for the M3 I don't mind paying for any of the maintenance at all

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Not saying the CTR isn't faster on the ring, but I think it's worth noting that the CTR was on Sport Cup 2's. Regular E92 M3 was tested on old PS2 tires (at oem undersizing).

People always forget this very important fact.

Originally Posted by ZombieM3

I’m hung up on the RB thing. My local Indy wants $3100 to replace w/ BEs and new engine mounts. Personally, I think it’s lame to pay out of pocket to replace RBs due to BMWs inept development work. Also, it would be painful to pay $12k for a used engine if you win the RB lottery and then be in the same place again.

On the other end of the spectrum I think an SS 1LE would be lots of fun too with the exception of fuel consumption

Find a different shop. That's about $1k more than what this job should cost at an indy.

[Visceral]

I've done two track days this year with a well driven CTR on the track with me. He wasn't on stock SC2's, but was on something like Direzza Star Specs (I dont recall).

He was having a lot of fun, and the car was clearly incredibly "workable" for FWD. But he was no faster in the corners and we both had similar braking points. I could drag him on the straights, though we both were having trouble putting down power on corner exit. My car is not heavily modified, he only had tires on enkeis.

A CTR doesn't "spank" an E90 on the track at all... but there ARE cars out there like the PP2 and SS 1LE that can put a couple seconds a lap on us, tires being equal. (I'm not sure if those are $40k cars, but I assume it can be done if you don't load them up).

I will say that the CTR is deliriously, shockingly ugly from behind, especially when stock lean angle is added. People will drive HARD to pass it.

[Visceral]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

Find a different shop. That's about $1k more than what this job should cost at an indy.

I spent $3100 on my RB replacement because the shop that did it is extremely good and does track support at most track days. It might be a commodity job, but I'm going to break things tracking my car. I need their help in the long term.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by Visceral

I spent $3100 on my RB replacement because the shop that did it is extremely good and does track support at most track days. It might be a commodity job, but I'm going to break things tracking my car. I need their help in the long term.

The shop that did mine is also extremely good and known for their custom fabrication work on race cars. In fact, two of the well known track/race-oriented shops I got quotes from fell right around $2k while a couple others wanted substantially more for no good reason as far as I could tell. Prices will vary by location but ~$2k is what this job should realistically cost at a reputable shop that is charging for an appropriate amount of time at a reasonable hourly rate.

[Visceral]

Never buy a car for its track times. Learn what's fun, engaging, and rewarding to drive on the track IF you are going to track it more the 3-4 times a year.

Otherwise buy the best car for you on the street (I'd much rather daily a Golf R than a CTR or E9x M3) and then have fun with it a couple times a year on the track. A couple of times a year you can have a lot of fun with a Subaru Outback on the track if that's what you need for a daily.

If you ARE going to track it more than 4-5 times a year, you need a separate car. A track car is a massive pain in the ass to daily if you start modding it for times and might be down for long stretches.

My wife occasionally drives the E90 to work, but it's way too "busy" for me. I track an E90 M3 but I daily a 991 Turbo S. It's fun to track the 991 maybe once a year.

[Visceral]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

The shop that did mine is also extremely good and known for their custom fabrication work on race cars. In fact, two of the well known track/race-oriented shops I got quotes from fell right around $2k while a couple others wanted substantially more for no good reason as far as I could tell. Prices will vary by location but ~$2k is what this job should realistically cost at a reputable shop that is charging for an appropriate amount of time at a reasonable hourly rate.

I'll go back and look, but are you including good aftermarket bearings, new engine mounts, and ARP rod bolts? That's a good bit of $$$ in parts. Add $100 in new oil twice (once to rinse the assembly, once to leave and drive for 5k miles on) and 10+ hours (at 120+ an hour) and I don't know how you get to $2000.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by Visceral

I'll go back and look, but are you including good aftermarket bearings, new engine mounts, and ARP rod bolts? That's a good bit of $$$ in parts. Add $100 in new oil twice (once to rinse the assembly, once to leave and drive for 5k miles on) and 10+ hours (at 120+ an hour) and I don't know how you get to $2000.

BE bearings and bolts - $750
Corteco (OEM) engine mounts - $110
Oil and filter - $125
Oil pan gasket - $30
Labor 8hr @ $120 - $960

Total - $1,975 + tax. Add an extra $240 if your shop insists this job takes them 10 hours and you're at around $2,200.

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Not saying the CTR isn't faster on the ring, but I think it's worth noting that the CTR was on Sport Cup 2's. Regular E92 M3 was tested on old PS2 tires (at oem undersizing).

Further, I could never trade an E9X M3 for a FWD CTR...Even if it did 7min flat.

This is exactly right. I tossed some 255/275 Cup2's and Euro MDM on a stock e92 ZCP DCT and it absolutely transformed the car on the track. Took it to Thermal Club with all 3 tracks connected and it was faster than a ZL1, new Cayman and only a few seconds off my 991.1 GT3.

No doubt in my mind this would put the M3 in front of the Civic. Nice job by Honda not putting that car down but got to compare apples to apples here.

[psun786]

I own both a mildly modified STI and M4, drove friends CTR. It is a very fun car indeed. But I see CTR more of a weekend car than daily.

[TTony]

This thread is great. Would I trade my M for a CTR? ...NO.

But do I think a stock M3 with Cup2's will improve on the 'Ring by 22 seconds and beat a stock CTR? ...NO.

Is an M3 going to be faster in a straight-line and in everyday traffic? Most of the time yes.

Would I get a CTR? Probably not as it's not a good commuter car due to stick shift.

Would I drive one if given the chance? Definitely!

The little details that Honda put in this car are pretty amazing and it's a great car.

As a former Gen 1 NSX owner, this vid put the CTR acceleration in perspective for me and the results were surprising:

[Chris_PDX]

I've driven one for 4 laps of our local track. One lap about 70% since it was a student's car.

My impressions where it is the best handling FWD car I've ever driven. I did invoke under steer and inner-wheel traction loss in a sharp corner by giving it too much power, but I was being stupid to see how much that fancy suspension setup would take.

Would it be faster than an E92 on track with the same tires? Depends on the track. At Portland, with the same driver intimately familiar with both cars, I'd actually guess the Type R would be pretty close, and maybe even nudge ahead of an E92. It weighs significantly less, so can carry much more speed through corners. Torque is pretty much the same but comes much earlier. E92 would edge out speed on the back straight but Type R would close gap in the last turn complex.

That said, there are a lot of cars that are close on track but you wouldn't normally cross shop. I wouldn't cross shop a Type R with an M3. Different class, and more importantly, type of car.

[94jedi]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

Lol no

This bears repeating.

[macdude357]

Just an FYI, CTR is on the Motor Trend 2018 Best Drivers cars so we should soon see how fast Randy P. can hustle it around Laguna Seca. Fastestlaps.com shows a 1:42.96 for the E92 M3 which I assume is on stock tires. So not a true apples to apples comparison but if we assume that the newer tires are 1-2 secs faster (I know, big assumption there) then anything under 1:41 would be faster.

What constitutes "smoking" the M3 is somewhat objective though. I'd be very impressed if it can manage a sub 1:40 since that's Alfa Guilia QV, M4 and ATS-V territory.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Too much rice..

I pulled a NSX in my dust . But a Tesla made my car look slow...

[MJBO]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

Lol no

Summed up perfectly.