BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > Regional Forums > Australia
 
BPM
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-30-2015, 01:02 AM   #1
jav_au
Private First Class
38
Rep
149
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Brisbane

iTrader: (0)

2009 E90 M3 Metallic rattle noise

Hi guys,

I’ve been experiencing some noise on my Dec 09 build E90 M3 DCT that I am trying to diagnose. Obviously I read multitude of threads regarding the “rod bearing” issues with the S65 and have been paranoid ever since buying the car. Car has only 31k km on it and has had full bmw dealer service. I am the third owner (last owner barely drove it). I always warm the car up properly etc. I actually probably don’t drive the car hard enough and baby it too much.

The noise seems to only happen under load when travelling in gear around say 2.5-3k rpm and is extremely light. I never noticed it before and can only notice it with radio off and windows fully down and really listening out for it. It seems to be a bit louder under load when you are in a higher gear going up a hill say. To me it kind of sounds like pinging but I struggle to think it is when I only use BP Ultimate 98 and these modern cars should never really ping.

To me it sounds more like upper noise a metallic rattle more so than bottom end, but obviously with all the rod bearing stuff going on I am freaking out. I cannot reproduce the sound when revving in Neutral. Car is fully stock with no mods and I am thinking it could potentially be the “intake noise” that some people describe?

Any help is much appreciated; I might take it to Mike Weber at Prestige and Performance just to put my mind at ease.

Cheers,

Javed
Appreciate 0
      03-30-2015, 01:54 AM   #2
LSM3
Private First Class
Australia
48
Rep
104
Posts

Drives: F06 ///M6 GranCoupe
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Melbourne, VIC

iTrader: (0)

If you have to go through that much effort to hear something, i wouldn't worry about it.

In my experience with all of the M cars i've owned, the engines usually omit a bit of noise, such as ticking sounds. Obviously when noises are particularly audible and noticeable you will need to get that checked out, however in your case - if you have to strain to hear it and you don't have any performance loss or check control warnings, then don't worry about it. Just mention it at your next scheduled service if you are concerned.
Appreciate 0
      03-30-2015, 03:39 AM   #3
Azurite M5
Private First Class
Australia
14
Rep
162
Posts

Drives: F10 M5 Comp Pack
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

It's more than likely pinging which is very common on S65 even with BP Ultimate.
Appreciate 0
      03-30-2015, 04:34 AM   #4
aussiem3
Colonel
aussiem3's Avatar
Australia
270
Rep
2,663
Posts

Drives: Goggomobil
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kangaroo land

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Just drive the damn thing hard all the noises will disappear. Probably you're not giving enough stick and the engine is weeping. That's the noise you can hear. Not the rod bearing!
__________________
F86 X6///
Appreciate 0
      03-30-2015, 04:51 AM   #5
LSM3
Private First Class
Australia
48
Rep
104
Posts

Drives: F06 ///M6 GranCoupe
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Melbourne, VIC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiem3 View Post
Just drive the damn thing hard all the noises will disappear. Probably you're not giving enough stick and the engine is weeping. That's the noise you can hear. Not the rod bearing!
ahaha. My mum has a 125i vert and it develops a ticking noise in the head of the motor because she doesn't thrash it. After i give it a nice 'italian tune', the ticking is gone and it purrs like a kitten.

I also have a few mates that have M3s who don't drive them regularly and when they do drive them, it is often very short distances that doesn't facilitate a full heat cycle. Although their cars have less kays, their cars usually encounter more maintenance issues than mine, which is daily driven - 60 kilometres or more per day.

Moral of the story - M cars need to be driven. However with that statement, they also need to be treated with respect (mechanical sympathy) and serviced appropriately.

I also agree with the previous comment about being able to hear pinging. I will sometimes hear that as well. I didn't hear it on my E46 M3s, but they would usually have a nice vanos ticking noise at times.

Also OP, if there was a serious engine problem - it would be evident at all times, which means that it would be evident at idle as well, and you've mentioned there is no abnormal noises at idle or when free revving. The S65 is a brutal motor and i would expect it to make [more] noises than engines without dat race pedigree. I suggest you take it out immediately and do a 8300rpm WOT shift in it.
Appreciate 0
      03-30-2015, 05:12 AM   #6
aussiem3
Colonel
aussiem3's Avatar
Australia
270
Rep
2,663
Posts

Drives: Goggomobil
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kangaroo land

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSM3 View Post
ahaha. My mum has a 125i vert and it develops a ticking noise in the head of the motor because she doesn't thrash it. After i give it a nice 'italian tune', the ticking is gone and it purrs like a kitten.

I also have a few mates that have M3s who don't drive them regularly and when they do drive them, it is often very short distances that doesn't facilitate a full heat cycle. Although their cars have less kays, their cars usually encounter more maintenance issues than mine, which is daily driven - 60 kilometres or more per day.

Moral of the story - M cars need to be driven. However with that statement, they also need to be treated with respect (mechanical sympathy) and serviced appropriately.

I also agree with the previous comment about being able to hear pinging. I will sometimes hear that as well. I didn't hear it on my E46 M3s, but they would usually have a nice vanos ticking noise at times.

Also OP, if there was a serious engine problem - it would be evident at all times, which means that it would be evident at idle as well, and you've mentioned there is no abnormal noises at idle or when free revving. The S65 is a brutal motor and i would expect it to make [more] noises than engines without dat race pedigree. I suggest you take it out immediately and do a 8300rpm WOT shift in it.
When I drive the car gently I hear all sorts of noises and you worry. Then give it a stick, you smile and the everything just disappear. That's an /// engine for you. Enjoy
__________________
F86 X6///
Appreciate 0
      03-30-2015, 06:09 AM   #7
jav_au
Private First Class
38
Rep
149
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Brisbane

iTrader: (0)

Cheers for that lads. Well took the car for a bit of a spirited drive. It's hard when you live near the city to find anywhere to open her up without doing anything silly.

Anyways I think it is definitely pinging. Noticed the noise was louder under load booting it up a hill. Could be be carbon build up from lack of long drives etc? I'm nearly finished this tank of fuel so maybe could I add an injector cleaner mix into the next tank? Might try Caltex 98 instead of the bp and see if it makes any difference.

Noise is definitely only under load and not when free revving. Hmmm.
Appreciate 0
      03-30-2015, 06:03 PM   #8
DaveDee
Major
DaveDee's Avatar
530
Rep
1,464
Posts

Drives: BMW X5M Comp
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gold Coast Australia

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by jav_au View Post
Hi guys,

I’ve been experiencing some noise on my Dec 09 build E90 M3 DCT that I am trying to diagnose. Obviously I read multitude of threads regarding the “rod bearing” issues with the S65 and have been paranoid ever since buying the car. Car has only 31k km on it and has had full bmw dealer service. I am the third owner (last owner barely drove it). I always warm the car up properly etc. I actually probably don’t drive the car hard enough and baby it too much.

The noise seems to only happen under load when travelling in gear around say 2.5-3k rpm and is extremely light. I never noticed it before and can only notice it with radio off and windows fully down and really listening out for it. It seems to be a bit louder under load when you are in a higher gear going up a hill say. To me it kind of sounds like pinging but I struggle to think it is when I only use BP Ultimate 98 and these modern cars should never really ping.

To me it sounds more like upper noise a metallic rattle more so than bottom end, but obviously with all the rod bearing stuff going on I am freaking out. I cannot reproduce the sound when revving in Neutral. Car is fully stock with no mods and I am thinking it could potentially be the “intake noise” that some people describe?

Any help is much appreciated; I might take it to Mike Weber at Prestige and Performance just to put my mind at ease.

Cheers,

Javed
Yes, do take your car to Mike, I'm going there tomorrow for an oil turnover.
Sounds like pinging alright, a stock tune with 240 E update does ping, and while briefly going back to stock I got pretty bad pinging which is not good at all for the motor. Whilst BP is about up there in 98 fuels I still experienced quite bad pinging with a stock tune, more so under light load. Now it's back to being supercharged no pinging at all :-) I'm not at all a fan of the stock 240E ECU firmware, whilst it fixed issues with the idle air control valve at startup I noticed more issues with pinging running the stock firmware
Appreciate 0
      03-30-2015, 07:43 PM   #9
jav_au
Private First Class
38
Rep
149
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Brisbane

iTrader: (0)

Thanks for that Dave.

Is there a way to tell what firmware I have at all? What is the fix for this if I want to keep the car stock and not necessarily have a tune? Could it potentially be carbon build up from short trip driving and not enough spirited runs? I was thinking of putting some techron in or maybe even seafoaming through the intake to try and clear potential deposits?

Pinging isn't knocking is it? It's not an indicator of rod knock or anything at all? Sorry for so many q's I'm just getting a little worried!

Cheers

Javed
Appreciate 0
      03-30-2015, 09:00 PM   #10
DaveDee
Major
DaveDee's Avatar
530
Rep
1,464
Posts

Drives: BMW X5M Comp
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gold Coast Australia

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by jav_au View Post
Thanks for that Dave.

Is there a way to tell what firmware I have at all? What is the fix for this if I want to keep the car stock and not necessarily have a tune? Could it potentially be carbon build up from short trip driving and not enough spirited runs? I was thinking of putting some techron in or maybe even seafoaming through the intake to try and clear potential deposits?

Pinging isn't knocking is it? It's not an indicator of rod knock or anything at all? Sorry for so many q's I'm just getting a little worried!

Cheers

Javed
You can't be too worried about the car. Like I always say if the car is a daily driver and you never to over 3000 RPM it can last forever, drag cars and race cars go through motors within 1 to a few track days and we are somewhere in there at the safer end of the scale. We can't expect our car to last forever if its driven on occasional track days and harder than normal but they are built to enjoy and when we start listening for noises the enjoyment turns to fear... so relax and enjoy that sensational car.

Pinging is an indication of detonation, but it's a stock tune, so nothing you can do about that. I found a good ECU tune gets rid of that pinging.

The only way to tell what version of firmware you have is with an OBD2 reader used for tuning your ECU/DCT. You should be running 240E ad it does take care of a few issues. An 09 car unless updated has an earlier ECU Firmware
Appreciate 0
      03-31-2015, 01:55 AM   #11
MFKN3
Colonel
MFKN3's Avatar
Australia
127
Rep
2,224
Posts

Drives: supercharged 4.4L stroker E92
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Australia

iTrader: (2)

I can't even hear myself think in my car

Your issue sounds like usual transmission/driveline/clutch rattle you get in most cars when under load and in too high a high gear?
Appreciate 0
      03-31-2015, 05:25 AM   #12
aussiem3
Colonel
aussiem3's Avatar
Australia
270
Rep
2,663
Posts

Drives: Goggomobil
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kangaroo land

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by MFKN3 View Post
I can't even hear myself think in my car

Your issue sounds like usual transmission/driveline/clutch rattle you get in most cars when under load and in too high a high gear?
Where have you been hiding?
__________________
F86 X6///
Appreciate 0
      07-14-2019, 03:48 AM   #13
DOCTOR.Y
Eric_Y
Australia
101
Rep
455
Posts

Drives: 2016 340i, 2010 E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Sydney

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2016 bmw m3 f80  [0.00]
2010 M3 E92  [0.00]
hello guys, my 10 E92 does the same noise! I tried BP, SHELL, CALTEX all 98 fuel, same. I tried to add one bottle of octane booster, noise is gone.

So I think it is knocking noise related to fuel. Should I remap ECU or just keep adding octane booster.
Appreciate 0
      07-15-2019, 04:44 AM   #14
DaveDee
Major
DaveDee's Avatar
530
Rep
1,464
Posts

Drives: BMW X5M Comp
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gold Coast Australia

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by DOCTOR.Y View Post
hello guys, my 10 E92 does the same noise! I tried BP, SHELL, CALTEX all 98 fuel, same. I tried to add one bottle of octane booster, noise is gone.

So I think it is knocking noise related to fuel. Should I remap ECU or just keep adding octane booster.
Same thing happens to a few cars. Recently a 2013 owned by a friend had the same problem as BMW had it for month and couldn't sort it out. We did a BPM stage 2 tune X pipe which fixed it and gave great performance gains, but but after a few months the pinging came back despite changing 02 sensors. He ended up selling it never fully solving the problem. Tried coil packs plugs and sensors.
A BPM stage 2 tune will give a lot of gains and may well solve the issue but there are no long term guarantees for pinging.
Appreciate 0
      07-15-2019, 08:00 PM   #15
DOCTOR.Y
Eric_Y
Australia
101
Rep
455
Posts

Drives: 2016 340i, 2010 E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Sydney

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2016 bmw m3 f80  [0.00]
2010 M3 E92  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDee View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DOCTOR.Y View Post
hello guys, my 10 E92 does the same noise! I tried BP, SHELL, CALTEX all 98 fuel, same. I tried to add one bottle of octane booster, noise is gone.

So I think it is knocking noise related to fuel. Should I remap ECU or just keep adding octane booster.
Same thing happens to a few cars. Recently a 2013 owned by a friend had the same problem as BMW had it for month and couldn't sort it out. We did a BPM stage 2 tune X pipe which fixed it and gave great performance gains, but but after a few months the pinging came back despite changing 02 sensors. He ended up selling it never fully solving the problem. Tried coil packs plugs and sensors.
A BPM stage 2 tune will give a lot of gains and may well solve the issue but there are no long term guarantees for pinging.
Thanks Dave. Many forum owners pointed out they used 98 octane petrol regardless of brands and regions, resulting in this noise. However
changing to 100+ octane petrol resolved the issue.

If adding octane booster won't give any negative effects to engine, I may use octane booster
Appreciate 0
      07-15-2019, 10:02 PM   #16
eriktufa
3r1k
eriktufa's Avatar
Australia
30
Rep
360
Posts

Drives: 2008 MY08 BMW E92 335i
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Perth

iTrader: (0)

I actually occasionally hear something like this. My car is tuned though.

Mind sharing which octane booster you are using?

I'm trying injector cleaners as well who know it may help.
__________________
12.836 @ 109.75mph (Cobb - Accessport & VRSF DP)
Appreciate 0
      07-26-2019, 06:28 AM   #17
DOCTOR.Y
Eric_Y
Australia
101
Rep
455
Posts

Drives: 2016 340i, 2010 E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Sydney

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2016 bmw m3 f80  [0.00]
2010 M3 E92  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by eriktufa View Post
I actually occasionally hear something like this. My car is tuned though.

Mind sharing which octane booster you are using?

I'm trying injector cleaners as well who know it may help.
I'm using Nulon octane booster. I found it helps a bit but not completely silence the noise. I only added half bottle booster to a full tank, so should increase the octane by 3.5 (98+3.5=101.5). A full bottle will increase octane by 7 (98+7=105)
Appreciate 0
      07-27-2019, 12:51 AM   #18
jeremism
New Member
0
Rep
16
Posts

Drives: MY11 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Melbourne

iTrader: (0)

I used to have quite frequent pinging on my my11 manual m3, pretty much in any gear under load and under 3k rpm. I've had some success with Redline si1 fuel system cleaner - pinging greatly reduced after a few bottles.

The build up appeared to be caused by a faulty thermostat (stuck open, so car warming up too slowly) - after fixing that and running the cleaner the car pings less but it's not completely gone.

I'll be trying a couple more bottles on a long drive to see if I can get rid of it altogether.
Appreciate 0
      07-30-2019, 11:35 AM   #19
Josparky
Second Lieutenant
Josparky's Avatar
32
Rep
256
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 M3; 2012 E88 135i
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Sydney

iTrader: (0)

If the front section of your exhaust system is loose, this will give you that rattling sound. Need to tighten every single bolt... i had a rattling sound only in slight load because few bolts on the front pipes were loose after i installed test pipes...
Appreciate 0
      07-30-2019, 11:25 PM   #20
NekMinnit
New Member
NekMinnit's Avatar
Australia
9
Rep
9
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 E92
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Canberra, ACT, Australia

iTrader: (0)

I also had this issue, there was a faint (but noticeable) noise that came from either the exhaust or engine bay at around 2k revs (+/-200revs) under small throttle openings (usually happened at around 60kmph in 4th gear, 6MT, going up a slight incline). Sounded in my opinion like some metal flakes or bits vibrating around and hitting the walls of the exhaust at that resonance.
I had my secondary cats taken out a wile ago and thought that may have been the cause. Just kind of lived with the noise as a few people had reported it over the forums.
I did however end up taking off my axle-back and giving it some juice with it off (sounds mint btw). I put the modified axle-back back on and haven't heard the noise since.
Not sure if it helps but that has been my experience with that noise, if it is the same noise you are describing.
Appreciate 0
      07-31-2019, 06:26 AM   #21
E90M3_Guy
Private
Australia
14
Rep
72
Posts

Drives: M3 E90 6MT ZCP LCI 2011
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Melbourne, Australia

iTrader: (0)

Going back a few years ago, I owned another make of V8 with increased compression over standard. The engine would ping noticeably and loudly with Shell 98 octane. However it ran beautifully with either BP 98 or Mobil (7-Eleven) 98. Even though my M3 V8 seems to run OK with Shell, ever since that earlier experience I've had a doubt about Shell in the back of my mind and have used it only as a last resort. My S65 with BPM Stage 1 tune gets BP or Mobil 98 with no issues.
Appreciate 0
      10-30-2019, 07:55 PM   #22
De_Cruelz
Enlisted Member
Australia
9
Rep
49
Posts

Drives: E92 M3 DCT
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Sydney

iTrader: (0)

I've had pretty bad pinging between 1500-2800 for some time and could never quite figure out what was the main cause. Tried all the cheaper options like different fuel, injector cleaners, octane boosters, Italian tune, etc but to no avail. Speaking of injector/fuel system cleaners, the Liqui Moly stuff is amazing. Same driving patterns and after about 3/4 from a full tank of BP98+LM, I went from 14.4km/L down to 13.9km/L. I used to swear by the Techron stuff but I feel the LM is better and I can't seem to find Techron anywhere in Sydney.

Anyway, recently my car developed brake vacuum issues that would cause the car to go into limp mode. This would happen intermittently but most of the time after starting the car cold. Had the vacuum sensor and pump replaced which fixed the original vacuum issue, but to ALL of the workshop staff and my surprise, this reduced the pinging by about 60-70%. Who would've thought brake vacuum issues would also cause pinging? Since fixing the brake vacuum issues, engine runs much smoother in the lower rpm ranges and also feels zippier than before.

At the moment I still have slight pinging from 1800-2000rpm. There was another thread about pre-det and the OP fixed the issue completely with new O2 sensors. This was after OP went through plugs, injectors, maybe coils too but the issue would return. I have a set on order now and will be replacing the pre-O2 sensors when I have the DCT serviced. If you have a scan tool, I would check if either of the 2 pre-O2 sensors are playing up to confirm. These don't need to fail or throw a fault code to cause any pinging it seems.

Thought I'd share my story as I couldn't figure this out for the longest time and the detonation was embarrassing to say the least. Especially so when someone notices your M3 and looks forward to hear the V8, only to hear it rattle away as it goes through the lower rpm ranges.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:01 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST