ACL rod bearings?

[Assimilator1]

Oh sorry, I didn't mean about the PM, that was to another guy , I was referring to the ACL shell measurements :-

Originally Posted by groovetek

Haha... And we end back at the very same source data from a single set of H-STDs. Classic.

I hope one of these days one of the workshops here who sells and installs multiple HX-STD and H-STD can measure a few sets each with post some data.

[Assimilator1]

Originally Posted by Green-Eggs

Negative. BE measured STD shells, not HX. Pure HX shell would be too much clearance IMO.

Even though at the upper end of their tolerances it is only 0.00028" (0.006mm) over the high HP/RPM industry standard of 0.00307" (0.078mm) for an S65 journal? (using 2.0465" journal, 0.0150" per inch journal).
Btw, what nominal tolerances do BE bearings target with the matching? Couldn't see it mentioned on the site.

************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************

This email from ACL has been bugging me for a while, it's very poorly set out and confusing (maybe the forum itself messed up the formatting?), titles don't match numbers!
So I've edited it below to clear things up, partly at least! (where I've added words they'll be in square brackets). If anyone spots any mistakes or can add info, lmk! :-

Originally Posted by groovetek

Hi Guys,

I have been talking to ACL here in Australia about which bearings to go for. Correspondence is as follows:

The attachment showed the information below:

BMW S65B40 3999cc V8 2007 - 2013 8 - 92.00 x 75.20mm
M3 - E90, E92, E93
Set number and sizes, Location, Component Half Material,
Standard, Standard Max. Wall Theoretical vertical Max.
Number Types Codes,

CONROD
8B1580H Std [journal], [next 2 are over sized shells, not listed or relevant here] .025, .25, 1580H, IH F781 - [not sure about this]
11247 841 702 - OEM number
51.975 - 51.991mm - [journal] Shaft Size
56.000 - 56.013mm - Tunnel size at crown
1.998mm - [shell] Wall Theoretical vertical Max.
0.013 - 0.058mm - Oil Clearance (pg V)
15.90mm - Length [of what???]
11247 841 703 - OEM number

8B1580HX Std [journal] 1580HX IH F781
11247 841 702 - OEM number
51.975 - 51.991mm - [journal] Shaft Size
56.000 - 56.013mm - Tunnel size at crown
1.985mm - [shell] Wall Theoretical vertical Max.
0.039 - 0.084mm
15.90 - Length
11247 841 703 - OEM number

HI John,

Yes I am aware that these engines have had issues with bearing failures, and seems lack of clearance could be one contributing factor. Unfortunately I have not received a lot of feedback from the field as to what clearances are being used. We seem to be selling more 8B1580H-STD’s than HX’s.

Our usual recommendation for clearance is .00075-.001” per inch of journal, plus add another .0005” for high performance applications. So for the S65 at 52mm, we would be saying approx. .0015” - .002”, or .038 to .051mm. Add another .013mm and we are in the range .051 - .064mm. However this is just a guideline, I am aware some guys running high end engines run their clearances much finer than this. It will also depend on the actual measurements of your housing and shaft, and may be worth measuring these first before deciding on which bearings to go for. I have added 2 attachments, one with general info about the RACE Series product, which includes further info about oil clearances and installing etc. Please also note the section on mixing shells to further vary the clearance, ie using a H and a HX shell on the same journal, that may be an option if you think the HX’s will give too much clearance. The other lists the main dimensions of these parts, note the oil clearances listed are only theoretical min/max values given the shaft/housing tolerance ranges, they are not recommended values.

Lastly it may be worth talking to some workshops that have actually done these engines. I only have knowledge of one, that is Charlie Saliba at Saliba Engine Reconditioning at Springvale in Melbourne. He may be worth a call, his number is 03 9546 1733.

Best regards

Mark Shadbolt | Product Engineer
ACL Bearing Company (Australia) Pty. Ltd.
253 Georgetown Road | Rocherlea | Tasmania 7248 | Australia
PO Box 1088 | Launceston | Tasmania 7250 | Australia
Direct : +61 3 6326 0561 | Mobile : +61 427 710515
E mark.shadbolt@acl.com.au
W www.acl.com.au
www.aclperformance.com.au

......................

From: Mark Shadbolt <mark.shadbolt@acl.com.au>
Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2018 7:56 AM
To: j.lu@lumansystems.com
Subject: RE: Form submission from the ACL Performance website

Hi John,

We do offer a conrod set for the S65B40 V8 from the E90, E92 M3. Part number is 8B1580H.

As is usual with our RACE series parts we always offer an extra clearance version as well, part number for this is 8B1580HX-STD. This is the same in all respects except for a thinner wall size with the aim of offering 0.025mm extra oil clearance as compared to the 8B1580H-STD set. These are currently in stock. See the following link for distributors:

http://www.aclperformance.com.au/stockists_w.htm

Best regards

Mark Shadbolt | Product Engineer
ACL Bearing Company (Australia) Pty. Ltd.
253 Georgetown Road | Rocherlea | Tasmania 7248 | Australia
PO Box 1088 | Launceston | Tasmania 7250 | Australia
Direct : +61 3 6326 0561 | Mobile : +61 427 710515
E mark.shadbolt@acl.com.au
W www.acl.com.au
www.aclperformance.com.au


From: j.lu@lumansystems.com <j.lu@lumansystems.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 6 June 2018 9:58 PM
To: ACL Performance Information <aclperformance.info@acl.com.au>
Subject: Form submission from the ACL Performance website

Just noticed the above numbers are in ACL's pdf catalogue!, lol, right near the end.

Going by what I've found so far, the std H bearings tolerance range goes too tight, just like the OEM ones! Although BE's accurate measurements of one H set, & Reddish Motors plastigauge measurements of the H sets they've installed all come up with clearance of ~0.05mm, which would be fine, but isn't guaranteed.

The ACL HX (increased clearance) shells go very slightly over (0.00028" (0.006mm)) the industry std for high HP/RPM at the upper clearance range for these engines.
So I'd rather get a measured mixed set, but AFAIK no one in the UK does that to date. So I've asked Lang racing & Abdul@mpowermotorsports to see if they would, & how much. [edit] I eventually went with hand measured ones by Deansbimmer aka Mporium.

[Assimilator1]

So to those of you who have already installed ACL bearings, how many miles/kms have you done on them & how's it going so far?
[edit] And which type did you have fitted?

[Richneerd]

900 miles so far so good! I did a 800 mile road trip the same week it was changed.

Engine still purring like a kitten!

[Assimilator1]

Cool , very fresh bearings though .
Which type did you have fitted?

[Richneerd]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

Cool , very fresh bearings though .
Which type did you have fitted?

I bought these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Tut4u2]

I went with these while I was doing my swap: https://store.langracing.com/acl-rod...mw-e9x-m3-s65/

No issues yet.

[nycplumber]

Originally Posted by Tut4u2

I went with these while I was doing my swap: https://store.langracing.com/acl-rod...mw-e9x-m3-s65/

No issues yet.

I have considered these for my new car but BE is only $250 more so I figured why chance it

[Pig Farmer]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

So to those of you who have already installed ACL bearings, how many miles/kms have you done on them & how's it going so far?
[edit] And which type did you have fitted?

3,500 miles on a mixed set. Car is running great. Should have the results of my first UOA soon.

[Mr_Reeves]

4,000 miles so far with ACL standard clearance bearings. This includes a trip to the Nurburgring with about a week's worth of hard driving.

Installed and plastigauged by Redish in Bristol.

No issues so far and engine running as it should.

Edit: Make that two trips to the Nurburgring!

[dty3]

i have 2000 miles on mine, 1000 of those miles are supercharged and no issues

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

So to those of you who have already installed ACL bearings, how many miles/kms have you done on them & how's it going so far?
[edit] And which type did you have fitted?

HX shells here (increased clearance) since July 2018. 8k and a bit miles.

[Assimilator1]

Lots of low mileages on those bearings atm, but thanks for reporting back guys .
Now make your M3s a daily driver & rack up those miles! .......... what? They're not that juicy on fuel! *cough*

Originally Posted by nycplumber

I have considered these for my new car but BE is only $250 more so I figured why chance it

Yea your better off in the US for BE bearings vs ACL, here in the UK you're looking at £180-£200 for ACL vs £600-700+ BE bearings!!, £400 = $517.

I'm looking at getting mixed & measured ACL shells (& ARP 2000 bolts) from Abdul@mpowermotorsports (forum vendor here).
Including shipping, my banks forex comission, import duty & VAT it comes to ~£483 currently .

[Pig Farmer]

Okay, I got my Blackstone report back after the bearing replacement. All my metals where well below the universal averages for a S65 with ~55k miles. My lead count was 2 PPM running the oil 3k miles. Prior to the bearing change, my last three reports showed lead levels of 22 PPM (only 2k miles on the oil since the ACL bearings arrived and were installed), 45 PPM with 3k miles on oil, and 36 PPM with 3k miles on oil. So the engine received a clean bill of health with the ACLs and is running great.

[Assimilator1]

Cool, have you got pics of the old bearings & oil reports prior to changing them?

[Maseroche]

I bought mine from Lang Racing and had them installed last week. They do their own mix and match as far as I know. Ordered the appropriate ARP rodbolts from them as well.

[jvictormp]

Originally Posted by Maseroche

...They do their own mix and match...

That's not what I heard from Lang.

ACL do their own mix, not sure if match. Lang said that he receives the sealed set, and doesn't change that.

[pbonsalb]

If you are building a high performance motor, you don’t trust the manufacturer and measure everything. If you are replacing parts, most people trust the manufacturer and just replace the parts without measuring.

I bought stock and had them WPC treated in 2014. I installed them without measuring. I would have bothered only if I saw something scary like a wiped bearing. Mine were all fault even, which led me to believe my tolerances were consistent. So I trusted BMW.

I would trust ACL as well. But just for fun, maybe I will buy or borrow a device and measure when I change rod bearings again.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

If you are building a high performance motor, you don’t trust the manufacturer and measure everything. If you are replacing parts, most people trust the manufacturer and just replace the parts without measuring.

I bought stock and had them WPC treated in 2014. I installed them without measuring. I would have bothered only if I saw something scary like a wiped bearing. Mine were all fault even, which led me to believe my tolerances were consistent. So I trusted BMW.

I would trust ACL as well. But just for fun, maybe I will buy or borrow a device and measure when I change rod bearings again.

OEMs running since 2014 hey. When ever you do them again, it will be just in time...

As you know I had mine replaced as well, but yes it is a tad sarcasm you notice as it is by now quite clear that also the OEM shells last for a considerable time even if they get worn.
That said, it was nice to see SYT' BE shells looking brand after 25k miles on the track. Guess thats what I'm hoping for with my new ACL's.

[pbonsalb]

Yes, I would expect extra clearance to show less wear in most of these motors. None were available when I bought replacement bearings in 2014.

[groovetek]

I think I was one of the first to install the ACL's, now racked up 14k, just done my first track day, constant 8000+rpm, no issues so far...

My mechanic installed them with new OEM bolts and procedures for anyone wondering.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by groovetek

I think I was one of the first to install the ACL's, now racked up 14k, just done my first track day, constant 8000+rpm, no issues so far...

My mechanic installed them with new OEM bolts and procedures for anyone wondering.

Nice report. Believe you went with their increased HX shell yes?