Cold Start Noise

[winrahr]

Read through some of the cold start rattle threads but most of the videos are no longer accessible and a lot of them seem to confuse the cranking rattle and the clunk after startup so I want to start this topic again.

My car recently developed a tick or rattle during crank and the first few seconds of startup until oil pressure is built. Is this the check valves? Or the chain tensioners?
Has there been more people who has experienced it and fixed it?


I've been able to reproduce this issue from just an hour of sitting, but it does get worse if it's been sitting for over a day.


This video is me cold start my car twice and you can hear it only make the clattering and clicking sound on the first start.

[RocketyMan]

I want to say this is completely NORMAL. Mine does this as well on a cold start until oil pressure is built--lasts probably 1 to 2 seconds.

I'm sure others will chime in with their experience.

[Tommysalami]

Mine does it. I want to say that over time oil drains through a check valve either in the oil filter housing (not sure ours have a check valve like some other bmw models do) or the check valves in the head or block (11367537692 or 11111734667 maybe?). I'll get the same noise if I do an oil change and drain the filter housing but forget to refill it with oil prior to the first start up. I think you'll find that others have the same noise but say its persisted over a long time and hasn't been a problem.

[spammysammich]

Mine does it for like a second or two. I thought it was probably the vanos system pressurizing, it mostly happens when the car has sat for a week or more. Never during daily driving.

[RocketyMan]

Originally Posted by Tommysalami

Mine does it. I want to say that over time oil drains through a check valve either in the oil filter housing (not sure ours have a check valve like some other bmw models do) or the check valves in the head or block (11367537692 or 11111734667 maybe?). I'll get the same noise if I do an oil change and drain the filter housing but forget to refill it with oil prior to the first start up. I think you'll find that others have the same noise but say its persisted over a long time and hasn't been a problem.

There's a check valve in the oil filter housing that attempts to keep the filter media always full of oil.

[spammysammich]

Originally Posted by RocketyMan

There's a check valve in the oil filter housing that attempts to keep the filter media always full of oil.

I think that small o-ring on the tip of the oil filter cage is supposed to help slow or prevent drain back.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by winrahr

Read through some of the cold start rattle threads but most of the videos are no longer accessible and a lot of them seem to confuse the cranking rattle and the clunk after startup so I want to start this topic again.

My car recently developed a tick or rattle during crank and the first few seconds of startup until oil pressure is built. Is this the check valves? Or the chain tensioners?
Has there been more people who has experienced it and fixed it?


I've been able to reproduce this issue from just an hour of sitting, but it does get worse if it's been sitting for over a day.


This video is me cold start my car twice and you can hear it only make the clattering and clicking sound on the first start.

It was in the year '2014 , a thread about the S65 cold start clunk noise => https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=996069

[winrahr]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

It was in the year '2014 , a thread about the S65 cold start clunk noise => https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=996069

Except all people talk about in that thread is the clunk after startup and not the clattering before

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by winrahr

Except all people talk about in that thread is the clunk after startup and not the clattering before

I hear the 2 sec. clattering noise from your cold starts over the 10 past years .Before and after startup.
Your noise and my noise and the noise from all the other S65 owners is the same clattering cold start noise .
S65 daily-drivers won't hear it . When I daily drive my car , I don't hear the noise anymore .
As far as I know , it was fixed only 'once , by replacing the S65 Vanos-Gears.
The S65 rattle noise was a 2008 BMW-Puma case .

"Client reports rattle noise on cold start" As you can see ..

[RocketyMan]

Originally Posted by spammysammich

I think that small o-ring on the tip of the oil filter cage is supposed to help slow or prevent drain back.

Yeah. There's that, then there's this spring/check-valve on the other end of the OFH.

[Ajolives]

In my experience the post oil change clatter (if you didn’t fill housing with oil) is much much more loud/violent than the VANOS rattle. Similar, but different enough to agree with ///M Power-Belgium this sound is the VANOS adjusters making some noise.

Both ideas are in the same vein, one could pop open the filter housing after a long sit and see if it’s empty or considerably lower level of oil than usual prior to cold start.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Ajolives

In my experience the post oil change clatter (if you didn’t fill housing with oil) is much much more loud/violent than the VANOS rattle. Similar, but different enough to agree with ///M Power-Belgium this sound is the VANOS adjusters making some noise.

Both ideas are in the same vein, one could pop open the filter housing after a long sit and see if it’s empty or considerably lower level of oil than usual prior to cold start.

Ajolives

Yeah mate I know . Sometimes the cold start clatter noise is just 'frightening .
As I said , if you want to get rid of it , just 'DD the car (daily-drive-it)
Or at least , twice a week. And you won't hear it ..'
My car is a garage Queen , and drive it only during summer weekends .
This means , I won't get rid of it , just like many other S65/S85 owners .
So , the cold start clatter noise is actually a 'choise . But it's definitely 'not normal(!)

On the other hand : After 10 years I know , it won't hurt our S65 engine .
Can't be otherwise ..

[winrahr]

Originally Posted by Tommysalami

Mine does it. I want to say that over time oil drains through a check valve either in the oil filter housing (not sure ours have a check valve like some other bmw models do) or the check valves in the head or block (11367537692 or 11111734667 maybe?). I'll get the same noise if I do an oil change and drain the filter housing but forget to refill it with oil prior to the first start up. I think you'll find that others have the same noise but say its persisted over a long time and hasn't been a problem.

My OFH seems to hold oil fine, so I guess I'll check the valves in the head. There seems to be 4 of them even though realoem only shows 1 in each head.

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Ajolives

Yeah mate I know . Sometimes the cold start clatter noise is just 'frightening .
As I said , if you want to get rid of it , just 'DD the car (daily-drive-it)
Or at least , twice a week. And you won't hear it ..'
My car is a garage Queen , and drive it only during summer weekends .
This means , I won't get rid of it , just like many other S65/S85 owners .
So , the cold start clatter noise is actually a 'choise . But it's definitely 'not normal(!)

On the other hand : After 10 years I know , it won't hurt our S65 engine .
Can't be otherwise ..

I can reproduce the noise in about 45 minutes of sitting, wherever I'm losing oil pressure it is happening real quick lol

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by winrahr

I can reproduce the noise in about 45 minutes of sitting, wherever I'm losing oil pressure it is happening real quick lol

Honestly , In the past 10 years I never heard that before

If you can reproduce the clatter noise in about 45 minutes of sitting , I really wonder what your BMW/Dealer would say and do about that ...'

[spammysammich]

I’m putting out the Bat signal. deansbimmer would you care to comment on this thread?

[Ajolives]

Originally Posted by winrahr

I can reproduce the noise in about 45 minutes of sitting, wherever I'm losing oil pressure it is happening real quick lol

I daily mine and it comes and goes.

[Tommysalami]

Originally Posted by winrahr

My OFH seems to hold oil fine, so I guess I'll check the valves in the head. There seems to be 4 of them even though realoem only shows 1 in each head.




I can reproduce the noise in about 45 minutes of sitting, wherever I'm losing oil pressure it is happening real quick lol

Checked my oil filter housing and it was full of oil, so probably not that for me either.

[triplej]

just to chime in. My car has been making this noise for the last 8 years that I've owned it. Quite spectacular if you're in an underground carpark!

[winrahr]

Late update, was chasing other issues with the car but I've replaced 2 of the 4 check valves in the head, 1 in each. Part #11367537692

Seems to make it happen less consistently, but inconclusive. Did a track day and didn't encounter the noise for almost a week, but now it is back from time to time. Seems like if the start is rougher (colder, higher rpm start?) it is more likely to make a louder racket, otherwise it is more subdued now:

I guess I'll never know if those valves fixed anything

[sergbaja5t]

Originally Posted by triplej

just to chime in. My car has been making this noise for the last 8 years that I've owned it. Quite spectacular if you're in an underground carpark!

Same here, does it after sitting overnight. For the last five years its done it. Normal Ops I guess.

[tdott]

Originally Posted by winrahr

Late update, was chasing other issues with the car but I've replaced 2 of the 4 check valves in the head, 1 in each. Part #11367537692

Seems to make it happen less consistently, but inconclusive. Did a track day and didn't encounter the noise for almost a week, but now it is back from time to time. Seems like if the start is rougher (colder, higher rpm start?) it is more likely to make a louder racket, otherwise it is more subdued now:

I guess I'll never know if those valves fixed anything

I bought these 4 valves, but never installed them yet.
I guess the clunk hasn't brothered me enough to address, but if I am there in the future i'll throw them in.

[winrahr]

Originally Posted by sergbaja5t

Same here, does it after sitting overnight. For the last five years its done it. Normal Ops I guess.

I have overnight starts that don't make the clacking and I have times where it sits for 2hrs and makes a huge racket while starting up.


The clunk at the end is nothing in noise level compared to the clacking it makes during crank, so I haven't really cared about it. Might've been making it the whole time I owned the car.