STOP TALKING ABOUT 335i vs M3 FFS !!

[Turkishexpress]

You want raw thrills and excitement you get a bike or a Z06 M3 is definitely the perfect luxury sports vehicle for the price. I just wish they had made bigger strides in its refinement and power over the previous generation M3. I just can't justify spending that much more money for that little advancement. Or better yet, I'm saving my money for the next generation M

[montreal red]

youre right OP, people should stop comparing the two... its getting boring... i mean there will always be people who love the 335 and then there'll be those who love the M... its like asking which is better, flat or sparkling? its just preference.

[ssabripo]

in a totally unrelated subject:

just got back from the dyno... Just a simple $500 JB3 tune:



good enough for low 12's. I got some coilovers installed, and tried it quickly in my little "test" lap, and it did very well. Next month I'm taking it to homestead and running it on the actual track and see how it stacks up to my e92 M3 time from last fall... hope is close or better.

[Kbueno]

Originally Posted by kpari09

Take it from me, coming from a tuned 335i with suspension mods. The m3 IS a giant leap over any 335i (stock or modified). I was just like you, I kept telling myself that the m3 is not that much better. Trying to make myself feel better bout my car by buying tunes and tryin to make my car as fast as an m3. The 335i is fast and handles great, but it is not a sports car and its no where near the thrill and excitement of an m3.

If I felt that way I would of just bought the M! I guess I'm getting old, the fat torque curve of the 335i is just my style. I've driven both (stock) and still think for what you pay for ...there should be more oomph in the M. Never thought the 3 was a sports car...it's a luxury sport. It's sportier than 90% of the cars on the road..so it's all relative. I'm with others...I'll be waiting for the next gen M3.

[ssabripo]

Originally Posted by 335lvr

....I'll be waiting for the next gen M3.

you, sir, are a fine gentleman and a scholar!

I am saving for that one.... twin turbo I6 goodness pushing 400hp+ /400lb-ft stock, with tons of aftermarket tuning capabilities, with the M driving dynamics!!

[rrobert22]

Originally Posted by kpari09

Take it from me, coming from a tuned 335i with suspension mods. The m3 IS a giant leap over any 335i (stock or modified). I was just like you, I kept telling myself that the m3 is not that much better. Trying to make myself feel better bout my car by buying tunes and tryin to make my car as fast as an m3. The 335i is fast and handles great, but it is not a sports car and its no where near the thrill and excitement of an m3.

[BIGNTASTIE]

Originally Posted by ssabripo

you, sir, are a fine gentleman and a scholar!

I am saving for that one.... twin turbo I6 goodness pushing 400hp+ /400lb-ft stock, with tons of aftermarket tuning capabilities, with the M driving dynamics!!

Sorry but i dont think the 1 series should even have a talk in this. The 1 is 1 ugly machine. Not to mention its for bitches.

and for the 335 vs m3 it really is retarded, why?? because M3 owners had a choice NOT to buy the 335( simple because we think its inferior)Trust me If the 335 is better, i would've gotten it, couldve saved me some money for my college books too, so in the end we are greater because we have the power of choice. Something 335 owners would have to take another step to prove.

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by BIGNTASTIE

Sorry but i dont think the 1 series should even have a talk in this. The 1 is 1 ugly machine. Not to mention its for bitches.

and for the 335 vs m3 it really is retarded, why?? because M3 owners had a choice NOT to buy the 335( simple because we think its inferior)Trust me If the 335 is better, i would've gotten it, couldve saved me some money for my college books too, so in the end we are greater because we have the power of choice. Something 335 owners would have to take another step to prove.

I weep for the future...

[BIGNTASTIE]

Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.

I weep for the future...

keep weeping

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by BIGNTASTIE

Sorry but i dont think the 1 series should even have a talk in this. The 1 is 1 ugly machine. Not to mention its for bitches.

and for the 335 vs m3 it really is retarded, why?? because M3 owners had a choice NOT to buy the 335( simple because we think its inferior)Trust me If the 335 is better, i would've gotten it, couldve saved me some money for my college books too, so in the end we are greater because we have the power of choice. Something 335 owners would have to take another step to prove.

You really need to get over yourself. You going to find out as you get older that there are bigger and better things than falling in love your image and your car.

I have both the X5 and 335, could've bought that m3 and some change- but wanted to have some fun with both utility and mods and enjoy my homes in CA and NV... plus too many boy racers like you pollute the brand.

Not all 335i owners are wannabe m3 groupies and want to hump your leg. Maybe some of us do have a choice and chose to NOT get an m3.

[techimo]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

You really need to get over yourself. You going to find out as you get older that there are bigger and better things than falling in love your image and your car.

Maybe some of us do have a choice and chose to NOT get an m3.

+1

[ssabripo]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

You really need to get over yourself. You going to find out as you get older that there are bigger and better things than falling in love your image and your car.

I have both the X5 and 335, could've bought that m3 and some change- but wanted to have some fun with both utility and mods and enjoy my homes in CA and NV... plus too many boy racers like you pollute the brand.

Not all 335i owners are wannabe m3 groupies and want to hump your leg. Maybe some of us do have a choice and chose to NOT get an m3.

+ 11tybillion!

I rather keep my X5 for the family + kids, drive the "crappy" "ugly" "lowly" 135 as a dialy driver to and from and work (and the occasional track), and spend the extra money that the M would have cost me on better things like more vacations with the family, etc.

some of us enjoy learning and appreciating the M3 but chose not to get it....and finances weren't the issue.

Originally Posted by BIGNTASTIE

Sorry but i dont think the 1 series should even have a talk in this. The 1 is 1 ugly machine. Not to mention its for bitches.

and for the 335 vs m3 it really is retarded, why?? because M3 owners had a choice NOT to buy the 335( simple because we think its inferior)Trust me If the 335 is better, i would've gotten it, couldve saved me some money for my college books too, so in the end we are greater because we have the power of choice. Something 335 owners would have to take another step to prove.

we have a winner for retard of the thread award!!

[graider]

Originally Posted by Turkishexpress

You want raw thrills and excitement you get a bike or a Z06 M3 is definitely the perfect luxury sports vehicle for the price. I just wish they had made bigger strides in its refinement and power over the previous generation M3. I just can't justify spending that much more money for that little advancement. Or better yet, I'm saving my money for the next generation M

um...I don't think a NA 4L V8 with 8400 rpm, EDC, DCT, much more mean looking, better brake, better sound, better driving feel, track ready chasis, more exclusivity, better interior leather, etc are little advancement. For 10-15k more, these are real bargain. You cannot upgrade a 335i to the same level as an m3 for 10-15k no matter how you look at it. The m engine alone is worth the cost IMO. It is real easy to get power with FI, infact nissan done this 15 years ago with the 300zx, subaru and mitsu done it with an i4, etc. in other word, any company can do FI, but none other than honda, porsche, ferrari, exotic one can produce high reving NA engine like BMW M division does.

[armyav8tor]

Originally Posted by BIGNTASTIE

Sorry but i dont think the 1 series should even have a talk in this. The 1 is 1 ugly machine. Not to mention its for bitches.

and for the 335 vs m3 it really is retarded, why?? because M3 owners had a choice NOT to buy the 335( simple because we think its inferior)Trust me If the 335 is better, i would've gotten it, couldve saved me some money for my college books too, so in the end we are greater because we have the power of choice. Something 335 owners would have to take another step to prove.

You certain are entitled to your own opinion, don't let these over sensitive n54 bitches let you think otherwise. I agree with just about 100% of what you said.

[armyav8tor]

Originally Posted by Turkishexpress

You want raw thrills and excitement you get a bike or a Z06 M3 is definitely the perfect luxury sports vehicle for the price. I just wish they had made bigger strides in its refinement and power over the previous generation M3. I just can't justify spending that much more money for that little advancement. Or better yet, I'm saving my money for the next generation M

The e90/e92 M3 goes around the Nurburgring in 8:05. That's a significant improvement over the e46 M3's 8:22 and the 335i's 8:26 time. It does this with so much refinement that it rides more comfortably than a 335i. This made it a no brainer for me to make the 335 to M3 switch. Take it from a guy who actually drives the car to its limits, the M3 is a huge step above the 135/335 in terms of handling.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by armyav8tor

You certain are entitled to your own opinion, don't let these over sensitive n54 bitches let you think otherwise. I agree with just about 100% of what you said.

per a recent post of track times at VIR:


1. Mosler MT 900 GTR 2:45.9
2. Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR 2:48.6
3. Ferrari F430 Scuderia 2:54.6
4. Nissan GT-R 2:55.6
5. Dodge Viper STR-10 (600hp) 2:57.4
6. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 2:58.2
7. Ford GT 3:00.7
8. Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z51 3:01.2
9. Dodge Viper SRT-10 3:01.6
10. Porsche 997 GT3 3:01.8
11. Chevrolet Corvette C6 3:03.6
12. Cadillac CTS-V 3:04.0
13. Audi R8 3:04.6
14. BMW M3 (E92) 3:05.6
15. Porsche 997 Turbo 3:05.8
16. Ford Shelby GT500 3:05.9
17. Mercedes C 63 AMG 3:06.5
18. Lotus Elise S2 3:09.2
19. Porsche Cayman S 3:09.5
20. BMW M6 3:10.0
21. BMW 335i Coupe 3:10.5
22. Audi RS4 (B7) 3:11.2
23. BMW Z4 M Roadster 3:11.7
24. Nissan 350Z (283bhp) 3:12.5
25. Chevrolet Cobalt SS/TC 3:13.0
26. Mitsubishi EVO X MR 3:13.3
27. Mitsubishi Lancer EVO IX 3:13.5
28. BMW 135i Coupe (E82) 3:13.7
29. Lexus IS F 3:14.0
30. Audi S5 3:14.6

135i and 335i are in good company.

It always feels good to pay less and get more.

[dkhm3]

The times are for Stock cars by the way.

Download the pdf and times yourself:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...re__1/(page)/1

look for the download box bottom right.

btw- that GTR costs only 70k?

damn. coulda woulda shoulda.

[armyav8tor]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

per a recent post of track times at VIR:


1. Mosler MT 900 GTR 2:45.9
2. Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR 2:48.6
3. Ferrari F430 Scuderia 2:54.6
4. Nissan GT-R 2:55.6
5. Dodge Viper STR-10 (600hp) 2:57.4
6. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 2:58.2
7. Ford GT 3:00.7
8. Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z51 3:01.2
9. Dodge Viper SRT-10 3:01.6
10. Porsche 997 GT3 3:01.8
11. Chevrolet Corvette C6 3:03.6
12. Cadillac CTS-V 3:04.0
13. Audi R8 3:04.6
14. BMW M3 (E92) 3:05.6
15. Porsche 997 Turbo 3:05.8
16. Ford Shelby GT500 3:05.9
17. Mercedes C 63 AMG 3:06.5
18. Lotus Elise S2 3:09.2
19. Porsche Cayman S 3:09.5
20. BMW M6 3:10.0
21. BMW 335i Coupe 3:10.5
22. Audi RS4 (B7) 3:11.2
23. BMW Z4 M Roadster 3:11.7
24. Nissan 350Z (283bhp) 3:12.5
25. Chevrolet Cobalt SS/TC 3:13.0
26. Mitsubishi EVO X MR 3:13.3
27. Mitsubishi Lancer EVO IX 3:13.5
28. BMW 135i Coupe (E82) 3:13.7
29. Lexus IS F 3:14.0
30. Audi S5 3:14.6

135i and 335i are in good company.

It always feels good to pay less and get more.

Different day = different track conditions. The 06' results were especially poor (ie. M6), must have been moist that day. The 335i in 07' did the lap in 3:10.5 while the 135i did it in 3:13.7 in 08'. The list is worthless as a whole but is useful if you focus on the cars by date tested.

http://www.caranddriver.com/content/...ngLapTimes.xls

Also note the weight of the 335i, data entry error?

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by armyav8tor

Different day = different track conditions. The 06' results were especially poor (ie. M6), must have been moist that day. The 335i in 07' did the lap in 3:10.5 while the 135i did it in 3:13.7 in 08'. The list is worthless as a whole but is useful if you focus on the cars by date tested.

http://www.caranddriver.com/content/...ngLapTimes.xls

Also note the weight of the 335i, data entry error?

You are correct on the validity of the results on different days.

I am pretty sure the weight is off on the 335i as well, by at least 200 lbs- laf.

Nice catch!

[TK6]

I just got a 335 and I'm looking for a M3 badge to put it on..

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

You are correct on the validity of the results on different days.

I am pretty sure the weight is off on the 335i as well, by at least 200 lbs- laf.

Nice catch!

It is also likely that there was more than one driver involved in the test. I think the list is still someshat useful. Also keep in mind that these were professional drivers. There are probably few (if any) drivers posting here who could equal those times.

What the number don't reveal is how easily each of these cars can be driven to the limit. I have driven examples of several of the cars on the list on varipus tracks (never been to VIR). Some, like the Miata and the Lotus are predictable and give a good indication of how close you are to the limits. Others like the Viper are more of a handful.

In my opinion if you are serious about tracking it makes sense to have a dedicated track car. I have seen enough "incidents" at the track to conclude that I want a full roll cage,racing seats and a 5 point harness before I attempt to push a car to the limits on a track, particularly a track with traffic.

As far as modding a 335 is concerned I don't think it is realistically possible to get a 335i to the performance level of an M3 by modding. And even if it was possible it would be hit or miss. Companies like BMW spend a great deal of money developing and testing cars and it is not likely that the average backyard mechanic is gointg to be able to equal their results in a cost effective manner. For example when you buy a 335 you pay for the 335i suspension. When you buy an M3 you pay for the M3 suspension, When you replace a 335i suspension with an M3 suspension (I don't know if this is possible but I have seen posts here that indicate that it is) you are paying for the 335i suspension AND the M3 suspension. Not very cost effective.

CA

[ssabripo]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

It is also likely that there was more than one driver involved in the test. I think the list is still someshat useful. Also keep in mind that these were professional drivers. There are probably few (if any) drivers posting here who could equal those times.

What the number don't reveal is how easily each of these cars can be driven to the limit. I have driven examples of several of the cars on the list on varipus tracks (never been to VIR). Some, like the Miata and the Lotus are predictable and give a good indication of how close you are to the limits. Others like the Viper are more of a handful.

In my opinion if you are serious about tracking it makes sense to have a dedicated track car. I have seen enough "incidents" at the track to conclude that I want a full roll cage,racing seats and a 5 point harness before I attempt to push a car to the limits on a track, particularly a track with traffic.


CA

great post CA. couple of follow up thoughts:

first, one should try to always use multiple sources and track times to get a more complete picture. If the same track on the same day with the same driver was not used, the variables are too influential to get an accurate assessment. For example, using the VIR track times is one measure, but lots of inconsistencies as described earlier. Edmunds is one of the few so far that has had the 135i, 335i, and e46 M3 in the same track, same day, same driver, and thus, it is a better measurement stick in my opinion.

Second, driver72 and I had some good discussions about the discrepancies of 335i and 135i times, for example, on the VIR results from 2007 to 2008 which saw generally faster times in 2007. I posted this on that discussion:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=118

the lag problem is interesting one. After our conversation the other day, I actually emailed Mark Gillies (C&D) and asked about the differences in times between their 335i and the rest of the tests that have floated around not only against the 135i but agains the Evo, etc..... his reply certainly was interesting. He remembers the results of the 2007 runs, and going over their notes, he mentioned how they all consistently noted how great the track felt that day. Even more interestingly is that he mentioned that he is well aware of changes to the BMW twin turbo ecu which have greatly changed the quick response of them; I find this interesting since he mentioned this without me bringing it up!