GM's competition against the New E92 M3--? THE G8

[94JZA80]

Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck

"Still" meaning this is the evolution of the 2004-2006 GTO...

i'm not sure i follow you. Pontiac GTO = Holden Monaro, whereas Pontiac G8 = Holden Commodore. did they discontinue the Monaro?

[Voltigeur]

Originally Posted by LuKe450

They are made in Australia by GM Holden. http://www.holdencampaign.com.au/60/...html#/gallery/

Mostly used as company cars & taxi cabs

Bzzzt! Not apples to apples. That's like comparing a bog standard Merc diesel (cabs in Germany) to an AMG. Yes, Holden Commodores are cabs - but there's also the HSV division, which is like M is to Bimmers, although I the G8 is akin to a Commodore SS-V (6L v8), a fast Commodore which likely has some design input from HSV.

These are much more sporting cars. Did you see Clarkson on 'Top Gear' in his drive of the Vauxhall VXR8? Similar to the G8, he rated it an M5 for half the money, dropping the techno stuff [SMG etc] - he had an absolute blast driving it, "I absolutely love it".

The G8 isn't the best looking iteration of this RWD platform (I prefer the Aussie Holden), but performance for the USD, it's a great buy. Finally Pontiac has brought back a sporty 4-dr at a reasonable price point: good for them!

[Voltigeur]

Originally Posted by 94JZA80

i'm not sure i follow you. Pontiac GTO = Holden Monaro, whereas Pontiac G8 = Holden Commodore. did they discontinue the Monaro?

There's a 2-dr design study (ie Monaro) out on this platform.

Looks pretty good:

http://www.wheelsmag.com.au/wheels/s...late=domWheels

[a burrito]

Originally Posted by Voltigeur

There's a 2-dr design study (ie Monaro) out on this platform.

Looks pretty good:

http://www.wheelsmag.com.au/wheels/s...late=domWheels

I really like how the window switches are in the middle.. i wish bmw would bring that back.

[Hans Delbruck]

Originally Posted by Voltigeur

There's a 2-dr design study (ie Monaro) out on this platform.

Originally Posted by 94JZA80

i'm not sure i follow you. Pontiac GTO = Holden Monaro, whereas Pontiac G8 = Holden Commodore. did they discontinue the Monaro?

Thanks for the clarifications.....

[mixja]

Locally in Australia and New Zealand the "G8" is known as the HSV (Holden Special Vehicles) Clubsport R8. The car is more a 5 Series or A6 competitor given its size and weight, quick but not as quick as an M3/C63/RS4.

There is however a special edition HSV GTS-R coming out in Australia/New Zealand with the Corvette LS7 powerplant - http://www.themotorreport.com.au/103...-litre-ls7-v8/ - would be interesting to see if that will hit US shores in Pontiac guise...

Given its power output of over 500HP it would be an M5 rival rather than an M3 rival...

[Davinhci]

Originally Posted by ihyln

Yes, quite pompous. Magazines even say this so I guess they are pompous too. Either way I'm flattered you registered just to say that.

haha

[Voltigeur]

Originally Posted by mixja

Locally in Australia and New Zealand the "G8" is known as the HSV (Holden Special Vehicles) Clubsport R8.

You sure? Doesn't the Commodore SS-V come w/ a firmed up suspension + 6L V8 & also some aero improvements? I don't see how the more exy HSV Clubsport could be manufactured at the price point the G8 is going for - agreed, there's some HSV in it. Perhaps it's a melange... the Clubsport R8 has aggressive aero bits, and it's a 6.2 not the G8's 6.0 (like the Commodore SS-V). SS-V even has the same vents (HSV's are vertical, and brakes on the HSV are more Brembo-esque)

SS-V
http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/...w?modelid=4006
HSV R8
http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/Eseries/c...lubsportr8.asp

Bottom line: Holden is building some nice, RWD, 4-door sedans.

[NYSPEM3]

my neighbor has one. good looking car, good performance, good value. not my cuppa tea now--i have no use for a large car.
if i need a bigger car but not wanting to spend $40k+ i'd consider it very seriously.

[mixja]

Originally Posted by Voltigeur

You sure? Doesn't the Commodore SS-V come w/ a firmed up suspension + 6L V8 & also some aero improvements? I don't see how the more exy HSV Clubsport could be manufactured at the price point the G8 is going for - agreed, there's some HSV in it. Perhaps it's a melange... the Clubsport R8 has aggressive aero bits, and it's a 6.2 not the G8's 6.0 (like the Commodore SS-V). SS-V even has the same vents (HSV's are vertical, and brakes on the HSV are more Brembo-esque)

SS-V
http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/...w?modelid=4006
HSV R8
http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/Eseries/c...lubsportr8.asp

Bottom line: Holden is building some nice, RWD, 4-door sedans.

Sorry you're probably right, just went on name and look...

Do Ford USA have an equivalent of the Ford Falcon (Holden's competition in Australia/NZ)? I reckon car's like the F6 (turbocharged 4.0L) and FPV Typhoon (hyped turbo 4.0L V6) would be popular...

[Voltigeur]

Originally Posted by mixja

Sorry you're probably right, just went on name and look...

Do Ford USA have an equivalent of the Ford Falcon (Holden's competition in Australia/NZ)? I reckon car's like the F6 (turbocharged 4.0L) and FPV Typhoon (hyped turbo 4.0L V6) would be popular...

No worries mate!

re Ford in NA: Nup. And Ford's new product strategy, per the WSJ, is to get smaller, ie focus on the Focus and their ilk.

[sayemthree]

competition?

[icemang17]

for a "pontiac" it looks okay.....with the LS2 motor its a pretty good performance bargin for $30k.... I have seen pretty steep discounts on Pontiacs too.... The bummer is its still a Pontiac.....

[dasrok8]

G8 with a cam/tune/converter/cat back (approx $3300.00 installed) will be a pretty sneaky sedan. Throw in a Pedders Street II kit ($2000 installed/aligned) and it's an even sneakier piece.

Huge discounts, cheap GMAC really not bad for $35K for a wife's car (my plan)

I still need an E92M for me, but I wouldn't be embarrassed to drive a G8 GT/GXP.

George

[Takumi587]

All of you who say "oh too bad it's a pontiac" are so elitist! I mean we are part of a society that the car you drive will show what social class you belong to. BUT give other car companies a chance maybe test drive one for once. You all act like the M3 is the best sports vehicle you have ever driven and have facts to prove it. WEll i hate to break it to you but the M3 really isn't all that WAYY better than other car manufacturers. Seriously it is all about personal opinion on the car you drive. And saying "the G8 is the poor mans M3" shut up. That's like saying a bmw is a poor mans bently.

HOnestly, open your minds and try checking out other competition out there. I am sure all of you don't LIKE every single thing about your car. All cars have their specific styles of driving and everyone picks and chooses those styles. That's why you have choices. Stop being so one sided on issues. I presented this thread just saying that GM is trying and you guys should just check it out and not demean it b/c of it's auto manufacturer.

I love the M3 more than any other car, but sometimes when i hear people talk about the car like its the best thing in the whole wide world... IT is ridiculous. Try figuring out ways you can improve it even more or mods that we can all use and stop saying how perfect it is.

Sorry for the venting but those who say "just a pontiac" need to shut up and grow up already. You sound so elitist when you even state something like that. You act like you have the power to look down on other auto manufacturers just b/c you drive an M3.

Why do you think BMW drivers have that stereotype of being an Ass Hole especially M owners. And another reason why many have moved over to m3forum b/c of some members on here are just so pompous and blind...

W/e im prolly gonna get banned for this.

[Takumi587]

Originally Posted by gPiplay

It's a pontiac.....




.....End of question (Although I do like the front flare)

Originally Posted by ihyln

I remembered seeing one of those on the road and I thought it was a M3 sedan. What a blatant ripoff of BMW. It really is the poor man's M3.

Originally Posted by LuKe450

They are made in Australia by GM Holden. http://www.holdencampaign.com.au/60/...html#/gallery/

Mostly used as company cars & taxi cabs

Originally Posted by Southern

Poor man's M3? How pompous. Trying reading "The Millionaire Next Door"...

Originally Posted by sayemthree

competition?

Originally Posted by icemang17

for a "pontiac" it looks okay.....with the LS2 motor its a pretty good performance bargin for $30k.... I have seen pretty steep discounts on Pontiacs too.... The bummer is its still a Pontiac.....

All those are the ones i am talking about.

[Voltigeur]

-
I agree that too many pooh pooh 'lower', less technically complex cars, w/out 'The Badge'.

Mind you, I don't view the M3 and G8 as strict comparables (2dr, 'vert etc). The G8 is a competently executed sports sedan w/out too many bells & whistles (may be the easier long-run ownership proposition - simpler to fix!) that gives great bang for the buck. And it's RWD, so it's got the right feel. Good on GM management for having the foresight to leverage the Aussies' long commitment to fast, V8 sedans that handle well

For those of us who can afford the +$30K premium for a M3: fortunate us.

But for a family guy with a stretched budget, or for someone who is more rational about how much they're willing to drop on a vehicular conveyance then, hey, the G8's a decent option. Take it over a Camry!!

Check out TG on the M5 vs the VXR8 (the UK version, w/ some more HSV bits):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn7Z-iLa8h0

[sayemthree]

Originally Posted by Takumi587

All of you who say "oh too bad it's a pontiac" are so elitist! I mean we are part of a society that the car you drive will show what social class you belong to. BUT give other car companies a chance maybe test drive one for once. You all act like the M3 is the best sports vehicle you have ever driven and have facts to prove it. WEll i hate to break it to you but the M3 really isn't all that WAYY better than other car manufacturers. Seriously it is all about personal opinion on the car you drive. And saying "the G8 is the poor mans M3" shut up. That's like saying a bmw is a poor mans bently.

HOnestly, open your minds and try checking out other competition out there. I am sure all of you don't LIKE every single thing about your car. All cars have their specific styles of driving and everyone picks and chooses those styles. That's why you have choices. Stop being so one sided on issues. I presented this thread just saying that GM is trying and you guys should just check it out and not demean it b/c of it's auto manufacturer.

I love the M3 more than any other car, but sometimes when i hear people talk about the car like its the best thing in the whole wide world... IT is ridiculous. Try figuring out ways you can improve it even more or mods that we can all use and stop saying how perfect it is.

Sorry for the venting but those who say "just a pontiac" need to shut up and grow up already. You sound so elitist when you even state something like that. You act like you have the power to look down on other auto manufacturers just b/c you drive an M3.

Why do you think BMW drivers have that stereotype of being an Ass Hole especially M owners. And another reason why many have moved over to m3forum b/c of some members on here are just so pompous and blind...

W/e im prolly gonna get banned for this.

dont get me wrong - its a cool car for the money - I like all cool cars. but its just no way that it is competition for the M3. ....and the M3 is the best thing in the world for its price and class.

[ihyln]

Originally Posted by Takumi587

All of you who say "oh too bad it's a pontiac" are so elitist! I mean we are part of a society that the car you drive will show what social class you belong to. BUT give other car companies a chance maybe test drive one for once. You all act like the M3 is the best sports vehicle you have ever driven and have facts to prove it. WEll i hate to break it to you but the M3 really isn't all that WAYY better than other car manufacturers. Seriously it is all about personal opinion on the car you drive. And saying "the G8 is the poor mans M3" shut up. That's like saying a bmw is a poor mans bently.

HOnestly, open your minds and try checking out other competition out there. I am sure all of you don't LIKE every single thing about your car. All cars have their specific styles of driving and everyone picks and chooses those styles. That's why you have choices. Stop being so one sided on issues. I presented this thread just saying that GM is trying and you guys should just check it out and not demean it b/c of it's auto manufacturer.

I love the M3 more than any other car, but sometimes when i hear people talk about the car like its the best thing in the whole wide world... IT is ridiculous. Try figuring out ways you can improve it even more or mods that we can all use and stop saying how perfect it is.

Sorry for the venting but those who say "just a pontiac" need to shut up and grow up already. You sound so elitist when you even state something like that. You act like you have the power to look down on other auto manufacturers just b/c you drive an M3.

Why do you think BMW drivers have that stereotype of being an Ass Hole especially M owners. And another reason why many have moved over to m3forum b/c of some members on here are just so pompous and blind...

W/e im prolly gonna get banned for this.

First off, you sound butthurt for some reason or other but we'll get to that later. The M, believe it or not, has a legendary pedigree other car manufacturers only dream about. It's an excellent car for the money and I'm not saying that because I drive one but I'm saying that because of it's class and price it's practically unbeatable. Other car manufacturers can try, they can come close, but they never hit the mark the M consistently has through the years. If there was a car that is better than the M (despite the badge) I'd be driving it. The C63 is a very close alternative to the M and to compare a GM to either the C63 or M is either a joke or the result of a delusional mind.

Finally, this is a M3 forum so obviously the answers will be biased towards the car but the Pontiac is no way a direct or indirect competitor to the M3 and barely one to the 5 series. To say that the BMW is a poor man's Bentley is hardly comparable. Affluent people buy BMWs, Bentleys, Mercs, etc and I hate to say this but the GM brand isn't known for high end luxury so the "poor man's X" has been said for years about their cars.

[Takumi587]

Originally Posted by ihyln

First off, you sound butthurt for some reason or other but we'll get to that later. The M, believe it or not, has a legendary pedigree other car manufacturers only dream about. It's an excellent car for the money and I'm not saying that because I drive one but I'm saying that because of it's class and price it's practically unbeatable. Other car manufacturers can try, they can come close, but they never hit the mark the M consistently has through the years. If there was a car that is better than the M (despite the badge) I'd be driving it. The C63 is a very close alternative to the M and to compare a GM to either the C63 or M is either a joke or the result of a delusional mind.

Finally, this is a M3 forum so obviously the answers will be biased towards the car but the Pontiac is no way a direct or indirect competitor to the M3 and barely one to the 5 series. To say that the BMW is a poor man's Bentley is hardly comparable. Affluent people buy BMWs, Bentleys, Mercs, etc and I hate to say this but the GM brand isn't known for high end luxury so the "poor man's X" has been said for years about their cars.

First off I am not saying that everyone here is bias for the M3. I just do not like some of the remarks I have been reading here on the forum. How everyone just feels anything that is not M is crap and that other opinions are out of the question. You are the perfect example of a forum member justifying about how marvelous and incomparable an M3 can be from a pontiac. WEll FIRST OFF i know this is an M3 forum DUH. ANd i did post this in the M3 VS thread.

And have you test driven the G8 researched it? Read up on it? anything? What I am saying is leave room for exceptions and be open minded about other car manufacturers. I mean some people here have even bad mouthed the new Hyundai sedan that many are comparing it to the 7series and S class.

Why am i arguing for you to give another auto maker a chance.. I have no idea why... Maybe because i just don't like closed minded people. Just like those who say "id still take the M3 than the GTR b/c it is more for public roads." ANYWAYS i know it all about opinion for what car you like but i am saying before you put down a car b/c of their badge go test drive it or research anything and give an honest, experienced opinion!!!

[Takumi587]

Originally Posted by sayemthree

dont get me wrong - its a cool car for the money - I like all cool cars. but its just no way that it is competition for the M3. ....and the M3 is the best thing in the world for its price and class.

Again personal opinion on what the M3 is. I agree it is great for the price and class. BUT, what makes you say that the new G8 is no competition for the M3? Are you saying the M3 is way better and can't be compared to the G8?

[Takumi587]

Originally Posted by ///Mantis

u, haters, are all over the place lol

CTS is a Cadillac, ZR1 is a chevy, VIPER is a dodge.... so..... what's ur point??? appreciate the engineering effort for what it is, stop looking at badges

+1000000000 Mantis even knows whats up