Schrick Cams Monday

[peter de la mare]

Ok, so this hasn’t gone exactly how I expected.

The green line is the baseline from last year. 437.5hp.

Things that have changed since then, cams (obviously), Drexler 3.62 diff and tyres.

First run produced 418hp, a 20hp loss. Obviously this wasn’t expected. Dyno operator (Evolve UK) recalibrated the road speed variable so the curves resembled each other a bit better, as the shorter FD was really noticeable. Possible cause of the loss of power could be the ultra soft track day/race tyres, the new diff, or cams not timed up correctly? There were no errors or engine lights displayed.

It should be noted that Evolve have never mapped an S65 for cams.

Ignition timing tweaks saw 5hp gained, but that’s all it was able to gain. 423hp.

Threw the Eventuri intake on and that made 7hp straight away. 430hp.

Throughout the testing it was apparent that the ECU was holding on to a lot more ignition timing than before which should have been replicated on the curve, but it wasn’t.

I’m going back in a couple of weeks with a set of road tyres to see if there’s anything in those, and Evolve are going to experiment with Vanos tweaks.

On the road it feels very healthy up to 8,600. How much of this is down to the cams and not the shorter FD is not known. On the dyno chart, is does show that it’s holding onto torque a lot better than last year, same with the HP chart.

In hindsight, I wish I’d saved the £3,000 ($4,000) it’s cost me to do this, however I’m willing to take it back for more mapping and to also try someone who has experience mapping for this setup.

[Bartledoo]

Was the power actually starting to dropoff or did they let off/hit limiter? Seems like more revs are needed? Bummer if not...

[peter de la mare]

Originally Posted by ksteckba

Was the power actually starting to dropoff or did they let off/hit limiter? Seems like more revs are needed? Bummer if not...

Hitting the 8,600rpm limiter.

[SYT_Shadow]

Thank you for the numbers

The biggest red flag i see is as you changed your diff it may be reading differently.

[8500RPM]

Hope there is more power left in her. Of course now it's hard to compare because the final drive changed but yeah I'm sure 4k going towards a supercharger would have produced more tangible results. If the cams weren't so expensive it might be worth it but not at their price tag. You'd think tuners by now would know exactly what their doing with cam tuning. This engine is 10yrs old already!

[VictorH]

Thank you for your time, effort and information you have provided in this thread. It's certainly not what you were wanting and not what anyone here was expecting, but the information, nonetheless is very interesting.

By all regards. you should have more power, particularly up the rpm range, but perhaps you might need some fancy tuning to optimize the airflow with this cam change. In the old days, we would just swap out the cam for something "bigger" expect the bottom end to get real "squishy" and. in exchange see an extra 10, 20 or 30 HP up top depending on whether we had cranked up the CR as well.

[peter de la mare]

When comparing the shape of the curve over 6,500 there's definitely more power and torque, but it's not a huge change. This is obviously just a curve shape comparison, not a numbers comparison. The car feels more ferocious in this range on the road than before.

This isn't over, I have located someone nearby that tunes S65 race engines with Schrick cams. If my 2nd visit to Evolve is fruitless, I'll consult them. Imran at Evolve is a great guy and is going to spend way more time than I've paid him for to get a result, I'm sure he'll figure it out.

I may even swap the diffs back to remove that variance, I still have the standard diff in my garage, it won't take much to put it back. The reason for the rush is that I'm driving over to Germany for a Nordschleife track day on Thursday. After this I'll have more time.

[pbonsalb]

I would go directly to the shop that had experiencing tuning S65 with Schricks. That shop has invested days on the dyno. You don’t want to pay someone to start fresh.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by 8500RPM

You'd think tuners by now would know exactly what their doing with cam tuning. This engine is 10yrs old already!

You really would... but we saw the same thing in the S54, where the engine was 10 years old and people were getting 3hp from cams... eventually though people got real horse power from them.

I wish I lived closer to Arizona and could drop my car off at ESS for a month for them to really work on it... I'm sure we'd see actual results then.

[jcolley]

I'll say this isn't surprising at all to me. OP (I think) had contacted me last year about tuning his S65 with the cams. I've been forced to decline as I have way too many things going on as is and with a healthy understanding of how much time it will take with a reflash based tuning environment, it takes *many* iterations to get it right. Combine that with a metric ass-ton of variables that aren't really documented regrading VANOS filling calculations that very few would be familiar with and it's exceptionally time consuming to write/dyno/compare/modify/reflash/dyno/compare and find the best settings.

I'm hoping I can finally get my MoTeC project running on the S85 this summer as I have a 5.9L stroker with Schrick race cams that I intend to live tune with the MoTeC on the engine dyno and then transfer the VANOS maps into the stock DME that will be running the car when it is delivered. This will allow for drastic reduction in the time to find the optimal settings...if it works. This would then be trivial to do the same on an S65.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by jcolley

I'll say this isn't surprising at all to me. OP (I think) had contacted me last year about tuning his S65 with the cams. I've been forced to decline as I have way too many things going on as is and with a healthy understanding of how much time it will take with a reflash based tuning environment, it takes *many* iterations to get it right. Combine that with a metric ass-ton of variables that aren't really documented regrading VANOS filling calculations that very few would be familiar with and it's exceptionally time consuming to write/dyno/compare/modify/reflash/dyno/compare and find the best settings.

I'm hoping I can finally get my MoTeC project running on the S85 this summer as I have a 5.9L stroker with Schrick race cams that I intend to live tune with the MoTeC on the engine dyno and then transfer the VANOS maps into the stock DME that will be running the car when it is delivered. This will allow for drastic reduction in the time to find the optimal settings...if it works. This would then be trivial to do the same on an S65.

Someone needs to make something like MSSFlasher (currently MSS5X) for the MSS6X. Flashes take 20 seconds; can reset the flash counter just by clicking a button. Makes going through multiple iterations while tuning stupidly quick!

[Richbot]

I will pay one billion dollars* for a drop in flash/cam package. There, business case made

I would expect there to be a nice 4.4 attacked to th cams when they are installed at that price, but what’s a few bucks here and there between billionaires









*each monopoly game comes with $15,140 in Monopoly money. That’s still like 65,000 monopoly boxes you can turn around and sell at a huge profit

[tlow98]

Appreciate the leg work, Peter de la mere!

Have you thought about calling Steve Dinan? Iirc, he has offered this package to some clients and likely has some great knowledge.

[SYT_Shadow]

I've found someone who can assist me timing/installing cams. I will likely move forward with this at some point this summer

[Shredicus]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I've found someone who can assist me timing/installing cams. I will likely move forward with this at some point this summer

Dude... Between this and that Karbonious airbox... You're going to have some sweet noise coming from the engine bay.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Shredicus

Dude... Between this and that Karbonious airbox... You're going to have some sweet noise coming from the engine bay.

don't forget the LT headers!!

LOL now I just need to clone myself so I can do the installs...

[Shredicus]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

don't forget the LT headers!!

LOL now I just need to clone myself so I can do the installs...

Hnnnggg...

[tlow98]

peter de la mare saw your post on evolve's insta - car looks fab!

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by tlow98

peter de la mare saw your post on evolve's insta - car looks fab!

More info!!

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by Obioban

More info!!

Mostly cool pics of his well-balanced M3 and a shout out.

[peter de la mare]

My car is at a race shop who are installing the Syvecs ECU and they’ve found that the cams haven’t been installed that well, there’s 10 degrees between the two inlet cams for instance, more than the software can overcome via the vanos timing. This would explain the loss of power when I went back to my baseline dyno.

The cams are being timed in properly now and should be on the dyno soon.

[Shamza]

Originally Posted by peter de la mare

My car is at a race shop who are installing the Syvecs ECU and they’ve found that the cams haven’t been installed that well, there’s 10 degrees between the two inlet cams for instance, more than the software can overcome via the vanos timing. This would explain the loss of power when I went back to my baseline dyno.

The cams are being timed in properly now and should be on the dyno soon.

10 degrees?? Damn. If you did the math it's probably 5-10% loss there alone