BE bearings - progress reports

[StripclubDJ]

This thread is bout to head south real quick

[dv13]

Why, this isn’t religion. At least not for everyone who reads these boards.

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by StripclubDJ

This thread is bout to head south real quick

You spin me right round baby, right round, like a record baby, right round, round round.

[Mvy]

Originally Posted by dv13

Which bolts were used in the replacement? It makes a difference. The type of bolt and the torque can add clearance in the right places. Conversely, improper bolt torque from the factory may also be responsible for the wear issues seen in most of these cars. We may never know the true reason for the issues, we only have theories. But, if improper factory installation/torque of rod bolts is the root m issue, you may be correct that your replacement bearings are ok, assuming the replacement bolts were torqued properly. Only one way to find out in your case. Open it back up to check. ��

ARP, which are known to create eccentricity. Which is probably why it is working fine after so long. I dont plan to reopen until 100k miles. And then I will replace with one of the newer options. Just wanted others to know its not all doom and gloom if you installed older solutions like WPC or VAC with ARP bolts.

[dv13]

Originally Posted by Mvy

ARP, which are known to create eccentricity. Which is probably why it is working fine after so long. I dont plan to reopen until 100k miles. And then I will replace with one of the newer options. Just wanted others to know its not all doom and gloom if you installed older solutions like WPC or VAC with ARP bolts.

Makes sense—thanks!

The two cases that interested me was the thread a few weeks ago with the guy who replaced his with OEM bearings and bolts and then when he inspected them after significant use there was no wear, the other where a replacement of the original factory bearings occurred where the tech told the owner that a few of the bolts were loose and the bearings on those rods were some of the worst condition. I think there may have been another case similar to these as well

Regardless, those two cases are reason enough to give pause to the theory that the factory clearance alone is the issue. At some point, when clearance becomes small enough, of course it’s an issue. But if the reason for this is a systematic factory mistake in not torquing rod bolts to the needed level, my preference would be to fix that relatively simple problem.

Like you said, there are multiple solutions to this problem, yours being one, BE certainly being another, along with the various other bearing sources. No need for proponents of any one solution to bash the rest, especially when no one has data to show the root cause of bearing wear in these cars.

[wfdeacon88]

There is a chance Clearance is the issue, a chance that bolt torque is the issue, or both. Nobody is certain it appears.. But Assuming that increased clearance doesn't have adverse effects, then BE with BE-ARP bolts appear to have the best chance to go after both potential causes without increasing other risks, thus, my decision was to go this route in hopes of hitting one or both of the potential causes.

[Gokyo]

I just really do not know what to do. I have an extended warranty that would cover if it if the bearings fail. But will not cover it as a preemptive repair.

[Green-Eggs]

There have been all kinds of claims of machining and assembly errors. If you think through the machining and manufacturing process, in my mind these theories are all wrong.

There was one claim that main bolt bores were machined at an angle in an engine. CNC's don't make this mistake -- they can't -- it's impossible.

There are multiple theories about human error on rod bolts. I don't think humans torque these rod bolts. Auto manufacturers use very expensive and sophisticated machines to sense torque. These bolts have a multi-phase sequence. First they are torqued to 5nm, then 20nm, then twisted another 130-degrees. The sequence is repeated three times on each bolt. The machines used by auto manufacturers will do this perfectly every single time. I just don't see BMW or any other manufacturer putting a torque wrench into a person's hands and telling them to do this procedure by hand with all of the areas of potential mistake, when there are purpose-built machines that will do this perfectly every time.

Likewise, I'm not sure what to think about the "loose rod bolt" claims. Depending on "how loose" it was, a loose rod bolt was destroy a motor in a matter of seconds. If it was loose enough for a shop to notice, then I think it would have already destroyed the motor.

[byroncheung]

Originally Posted by Gokyo

I just really do not know what to do. I have an extended warranty that would cover if it if the bearings fail. But will not cover it as a preemptive repair.

i wouldn't do anything if you have extended warranty that would cover that. only consider preventive replacement when the warranty ends...

[kawasaki00]

Let me be clear on this, there is no such thing as a loose rod bolt.
If it is loose, it will come out, within a few minutes. Rod bolts are the most critical fastener in a engine. Proper torque is the bolts being stretched to within .0005 with just a clicker. Angle torque they can be torqued to be within .0001, but .0003 is acceptable.
The bmw bolts are a torque to yield bolt. Once the yield point is reached the bolt will "feel" very soft upon disassembly. The yield curve allows a greater tolerance of angular torque than the precision torque of the arp bolts. The yield spec for the bmw bolts gives the ability to have maximun clamp load out of a bolt but ruins it in the process. As long as it is never taken back out it will hold that clamp load. The spiral acme looking thread on the factory bolts acts as a spring, allowing over torque-to yield while keeping the bolt from breaking.

[wfdeacon88]

Originally Posted by Gokyo

I just really do not know what to do. I have an extended warranty that would cover if it if the bearings fail. But will not cover it as a preemptive repair.

if you have a warranty then gamble away until it expires. you have nothing to lose.. and replacing them at cost on your own defeats the purpose of the warranty... just my opinion

[Richbot]

Installed BE bearings/ARP bolts at just over 102,000 miles on my '08. Decided to change after lead spiked from baseline ~8ppm to ~20-21ppm on two successive 5-6k mile oil changes beginning in the 90,000 mile range.

I changed the oil at 400 miles after they were changed, then again about 4000 miles later and had it tested. Lead dropped to zero on the second change, which is the first time it's had a zero in its life.

The car has just under 114,000 miles on it now. I didn't bother to send a sample on the last change at around 111,000. I'll send one at the next change probs. Will be the most "severe service" the car sees with cold weather and lots of shorter trips during winter.

I'm using Redline 5w50

[dv13]

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

Let me be clear on this, there is no such thing as a loose rod bolt.
If it is loose, it will come out, within a few minutes. Rod bolts are the most critical fastener in a engine. Proper torque is the bolts being stretched to within .0005 with just a clicker. Angle torque they can be torqued to be within .0001, but .0003 is acceptable.
The bmw bolts are a torque to yield bolt. Once the yield point is reached the bolt will "feel" very soft upon disassembly. The yield curve allows a greater tolerance of angular torque than the precision torque of the arp bolts. The yield spec for the bmw bolts gives the ability to have maximun clamp load out of a bolt but ruins it in the process. As long as it is never taken back out it will hold that clamp load. The spiral acme looking thread on the factory bolts acts as a spring, allowing over torque-to yield while keeping the bolt from breaking.

How are the cases where the owner replaced the worn originals with OEM and then rechecked after some time and found no wear explained? If it wasn’t improper factory installation and the clearance is essentially the same as it was from the factory, what’s left? Also, if a bolt is undertorqued by a very small degree, does it have to necessarily fail/back out or could the small degree of lost crush contribute to losing clearance in the areas where we see abnormal wear?

[Assimilator1]

Originally Posted by doogee

I have to agree. We won't be needing a thread like this for a few years based on most peoples driving.

So it's been a few years now , any updates?
(And to anyone moaning about bringing back an old thread, if their is a newer better one then link it!).

[Richbot]

My car is at 125,000 miles (23k since the be bearings/arp bolts went in) and it still hasn't exploded

[Ngilbe36]

My car is at 83,000 10,000+ since ARP bolts and BE bearings. Engine is still under the hood with only engineered holes in it.

[serranot]

BE bearings and OEM bolts in December 2015, mileage 26731. Car now has 61K. Runs like a top.

[bmwpower603]

Oil starvation = Rod bearing failure.
Prevent failure: [Replace your rod bearings with updated clearances] Use stock rod bolts to avoid distortion.

Unbalanced crankshaft = Main bearing failure
Prevent failure: [Keep your car stock, and meticulously maintain it to keep crankshaft nice and balanced. In doing so will keep your rotating assembly in harmony the way BMW engineered it to be]

[pbonsalb]

Whether the car is stock or modified does not affect crankshaft balance. I would have no interest in driving one of these in stock form.

[bmwpower603]

BMW takes precaution in many different ways, using all different kinds of technology to keep the car running well , and staying balanced. The engine is designed to pick up slack where possible mechanical deficiencies are known. When you throw a tune on the vehicle. All of those pre cautions that bmw uses for the mechanical deficiencies are no longer being used.

So when you throw a tune on. Your ignition cruise changes to a permanent state. And no longer allows the car to correct for possible mechanical deficiencies in the engine, injectors, spark, or combustion ect. Instead of a stock ignition cruise, where the engine is always correcting for deficiencies.

[pbonsalb]

A tune has no affect on crankshaft balance.

Certainly a poorly done tune can cause problems. It is incorrect that with an aftermarket tune the ignition changes to a permanent state. Any good tune is still always correcting for deficiencies.

Corking up an engine with cats may help emissions but it also increases backpressure, puts more heat into the exhaust valves, reduces efficiency, and saps power. Some bolt on mods help airflow through the engine and others reduce drag on the motor.

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by bmwpower603

BMW takes precaution in many different ways, using all different kinds of technology to keep the car running well , and staying balanced. The engine is designed to pick up slack where possible mechanical deficiencies are known. When you throw a tune on the vehicle. All of those pre cautions that bmw uses for the mechanical deficiencies are no longer being used.

So when you throw a tune on. Your ignition cruise changes to a permanent state. And no longer allows the car to correct for possible mechanical deficiencies in the engine, injectors, spark, or combustion ect. Instead of a stock ignition cruise, where the engine is always correcting for deficiencies.

What fresh mumbo jumbo is this?

Not sure where you got that info but you are dead wrong. Balance is only affected by material gain/loss or deformation. If that happens, you have big problems.

As for the tune - I do not know where to start...

:|