09 m3 vs 09 135i + dinan s2 (disclaimer-love 'em both...aaagh.) so help!

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by s3touring

as the title suggests - i'm torn. i dont want this to turn into a shouting match, and i understand of course i'm posting this in the m3 forum...

From my perspective, the M3 is the better car (more on that later), but the 135i is definitely more fun to drive. It's more fun because it's lazy fast when you're just driving around, it's less likely to draw unwanted attention, and it is definitely more tossable, which to me means that BMW has committed the unforgiveable sin of simply piling on too many inches and too many pounds on the M cars.

The 1 series is too heavy as well, but compared to the M3, it feels like a lightweight. That's because it not only weighs a fair bit less, but the shorter wheelbase has allowed BMW to get back to that magic they're famous for - which is casual back-road banditry. The M3 feels less wieldly in this environment than the 1 series.

As to lazy fast, the M3 will get your heart to pounding when it's singing its high E over C song at 8 grand, but it's a little lazy in everyday driving using the left hand side of the tach. In that environment, the turbo six just pulls like a train from low revs in third or fourth gear, and you're way the hell down the road with no need for sturm and drang - and nobody the wiser, including the right seat.

The M3 is arguably a terrific car - but it's an early Sunday morning toy. Everywhere else except on track, the 1 series feels and is quicker, and effortlessly so. You get to stay under the radar (so to speak), and have a ball - every day.

It's also a ton better on gas, which today is just flat good.

The only thing it needs is a set of sneakers from Michelin or Dunlop, and the ride and stick both get dramatically improved from an already high plane.

Bruce

PS - You seem like a guy who doesn't need a car to prove his manhood (unlike a bunch of folks in this forum), and if I'm right about that, the 1 series will bring you a bunch more joy than the M3 will.

[SUB-ZERO]

Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.

From my perspective, the M3 is the better car (more on that later), but the 135i is definitely more fun to drive. It's more fun because it's lazy fast when you're just driving around, it's less likely to draw unwanted attention, and it is definitely more tossable, which to me means that BMW has committed the unforgiveable sin of simply piling on too many inches and too many pounds on the M cars.

The 1 series is too heavy as well, but compared to the M3, it feels like a lightweight. That's because it not only weighs a fair bit less, but the shorter wheelbase has allowed BMW to get back to that magic they're famous for - which is casual back-road banditry. The M3 feels less wieldly in this environment than the 1 series.

As to lazy fast, the M3 will get your heart to pounding when it's singing its high E over C song at 8 grand, but it's a little lazy in everyday driving using the left hand side of the tach. In that environment, the turbo six just pulls like a train from low revs in third or fourth gear, and you're way the hell down the road with no need for sturm and drang - and nobody the wiser, including the right seat.

The M3 is arguably a terrific car - but it's an early Sunday morning toy. Everywhere else except on track, the 1 series feels and is quicker, and effortlessly so. You get to stay under the radar (so to speak), and have a ball - every day.

It's also a ton better on gas, which today is just flat good.

The only thing it needs is a set of sneakers from Michelin or Dunlop, and the ride and stick both get dramatically improved from an already high plane.

Bruce

PS - You seem like a guy who doesn't need a car to prove his manhood (unlike a bunch of folks in this forum), and if I'm right about that, the 1 series will bring you a bunch more joy than the M3 will.

You make good points...I however, love the M3 and the 1-series doesn't do it for me.

For me, purchasing expensive toys is an experience. I didn't just go to BMW dealer and buy the M. My experience started in the 9th grade when I saw my first M. Although I have had very nice cars in the last 15 years...I always longed for an M3. I savored the moment when I made the decision to buy one and when I finally signed the dotted line. My ride home was surreal having purchased an object that I have read about and studied for such a long time. Every time I saw one on Speed Channel and every time I saw one at the Rolex 24 in Daytona. As I drove my G35 Coupe, I would look at the M3 next to me as a married man looks at that sexy 25 year old that is waiting to be fucked..realizing that I had 4 years, 3 years, 2 and 1 to go until I paid off my G35 and then maybe, I could finally own her [M3].

Now that I own one, I truly understand why the M3 has always been special....the $1000 car payment won't really phase me as one cannot put a price on such an experience.

The same thing goes for other expensive purchases...the type that most people cannot rationalize (i.e., fine watches, wine, liquor, custom clothing, etc).

The 1-series is a nice car....but it will not fill the void of owning and driving one of the finest machines in the world. If he is just looking for a nice A to B, then I guess the 1-series will do. However, considering that he seems to be able to appreciate a machine such as an M3, I do not think he will ultimately be satisfied with the 1-series.

By the way, please excuse my cussing but it was the only way I could describe what I felt when I saw an ///M3 role by.

Regards.
SZ

[Hyperspaced]

I don't really understand the contention that the 335 is in any way faster than the M3. I guess the 135 is different, with the same engine and substantially less weight--I have never driven it though. I did drive the 335 and the M3 back to back and desperately wanted to prefer the 335. I don't see any way in which it was anywhere near as fast as the M3. I didn't go easy on either car, but as I mentioned before, the 335 was a lot like my 330, and the M3 was nothing like that. What am I missing?

[jaiman]

Will the dealer even let you put a Dinan flash on the car? Can't imagine BMW would be too happy aobut getting a lease return car that can't be warrantied.

And yes, I know about the Dinan warranty but it is not the same as a BMW warranty.

[PowerLex]

I'd have to say you will NOT get the performance or pure engagement from a tuned 135i that you will with an M3. I know, beating a dead horse. But unless you really go balls out, which a Dinan tune is NOT, you won't beat an M3 in any performance category. The only time I've seen a 335i barely edge out an M3, straight line have you, is on a full blown race gas JB3 tune plus many more bolt ons. In the corners, not even worth discussing. If you are looking for something more fuel efficient, that may be an argument towards the 135i.

[ssabripo]

Let me try to put a little perspective into this thread, as some of the replies have been plain retarded, specially by those who have the M-small weener complex.

In Summary: Get the M3 if you have the means! it is an overall much better performer, stock to stock, it looks much nicer, it has better driving dynamics, and it has an unbeatable V8 race-bred engine. If you can't afford it, the 135i is a good simple cheaper alternative.


Facts are:
* Dinan is the most undertuned of the tuners out there, and the so called warranty is laughable at best....search e90post or 1addicts for the horror stories. Steve Dinan is a great guy, but unfortunately Dinan's relationship with BMW has fallen badly and you WILL get much better performance out of the car with a JB3 or Procede.

* The 135i does have some slight understeer, which is simply fixed by spacers....I've done it . To really set it off, a good suspension and tire setup is required, so some decent coilovers and some good RE-11 or similar tires will set this car lose.

* Looks wise, the M3 destroys the 135i in almost every aspect. However, some simple mods can make the car nicer:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9195092...7620841440130/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ssabrip...7620837954416/

* the retard who said only females drive the 135i, probably needs to get out of the closet and join GALA. BMW USA numbers are that: 81% of the owners are males, and 78% of those are between the ages of 25-49. Perhaps in Utah, and in Jersey city, only the girls have it, but the rest of the country is male dominated in that market.

* The 135i desperately needs a true LSD, eventhough the e-lsd does somewhat of a patch job on it. But despite this, it does a superb job for the little car that it is. BMW really did a great job with the bugger, I just wished they would have made it more "appealing to the eyes" and put the darn LSD in there. All and all, however, it does a great job.....not too shabby for an otherwise stock car with a JB3 and coilovers (a whole $1986 later):
http://www.m3post.com/forums/attachm...2&d=1239798027
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...se#post4919346


I don't get the hate from some of the M owners. You guys have the better car (as it should be) and instead of giving praise to your little brother for its great performance for the price, you shit on it every other opportunity.

I personally bought the 135i because I wanted a simple daily driver that would be agood weekend track car, but could just as well have bought the M3. But given the X5 already in the wife's hand, and other things that are needed in this economy, the 135i does a great job.

as I said, if you can afford it, get the M3 and dont look back....can't replace the real thing. If you can't, or don't want to, the 135i is nothing to be embarrased about...it is a superb machine and one of the best performance dollar per dollar that $40k can buy you these days.

[330CIZHP]

^^^^

Well said. However, you are one of the exceptions and not the norm with your balanced thinking and appreciating things for what they are. More 335 owners need to learn from you. Trust me, I can see why M3 owners get so aggitated by the 335 owners since I have seen countless dumba** 335 owners who go around harping that BMW made a huge mistake with the new M3 and for the first time a regular 3-series kills the M3 so much so that BMW has to downplay the 335 by restraining it to 300 HP from factory to keep the sales of the M3 otherwise, there is absolutely no reason to get an M3 since 335 is much more capable once you throw Vishnu or JB on it.

It is almost as if they are determined to prove that the 335 is what M3 should have been and that it owns every M-car once you throw JB3 on it.

No joke. That is true story. I never have seen so much resentment towards M-cars by regular 3-series owners as much as I have seen it in the 335 clan.

[ssabripo]

Originally Posted by 330CIZHP

^^^^

Well said. However, you are one of the exceptions and not the norm with your balanced thinking and appreciating things for what they are. More 335 owners need to learn from you. Trust me, I can see why M3 owners get so aggitated by the 335 owners since I have seen countless dumba** 335 owners who go around harping that BMW made a huge mistake with the new M3 and for the first time a regular 3-series kills the M3 so much so that BMW has to downplay the 335 by restraining it to 300 HP from factory to keep the sales of the M3 otherwise, there is absolutely no reason to get an M3 since 335 is much more capable once you throw Vishnu or JB on it.

It is almost as if they are determined to prove that the 335 is what M3 should have been and that it owns every M-car once you throw JB3 on it.

No joke. That is true story. I never have seen so much resentment towards M-cars by regular 3-series owners as much as I have seen it in the 335 clan.

yes, I've seen some of the same stupidity said from not only from 335i owners but from 135 owners. The M3 has such good balance of power, handling, and driving dynamics, it is hard to comprehend until you drive one on the track, and not on some dragstrip or on the internet.

But, as bad as some of those 335i owners are, the same douchebaggery can be found in this thread alone:

Originally Posted by FStop7

135i understeers so badly, not enough tire in front and not a lot of room to add more.

Originally Posted by NewM3driver

135I rides like shit too.

Originally Posted by jaay11

Not sure if there really is a question here. If there is....the question would be:

Do you want a long lived power car that is well respected on the road and track or do you want a "cute" car? If you have the money, get the M. If not, go with the 135 or even the 335.

btw, with a family, you're actually more interested in a M3 Sedan v. 335 Sedan.

Originally Posted by ChrisFastM3

LOL,

The 135 has no limited slip. 7 speed DCT OWNS the 135 automatic. Interior quality in general is nicer in the M3. The leather on the M3 is nicer. No turbo lag with the M. Shifting at 8400 with the M. Countless hours of tuning on the one of the worlds most renown (if not the most) track with the M. MUCH MUCH better suspension, CF roof, much nicer styling, better wheels, better brakes, better PERIOD.......... and thats for starters.

and my personal favorite, from the resident assflute on the board, the little 19year old with similac breath:

Originally Posted by BIGNTASTIE

135 is not for Men.

[artifice]

I think both are good cars.

Since you say payments are of no concern I would say go with the m3. The 135i is a good car and with small modifications (as the 135i guys say) can hang or even beat the m3.

However! It is up to you on what you want to use the car for.

Are you going to have a m3 pull up next to you in your 135i and in your head think... man I wish I would have gotten the m3. Or are you going to pull up next to a 135i (in your m3) and think... man I wish I had one of those.

The choice is yours... obviously money is of no object so you can push either car to be track cars or whatever.

My choice was the m3 over the 135i and 335i ... although all are good cars. (plus my gf's car is a 335i and she was smoking the crap out of my g35, i had to have something a little faster)

[bobbyd1961]

no comparison none nadda

[jibaholic101]

Originally Posted by ssabripo

Let me try to put a little perspective into this thread, as some of the replies have been plain retarded, specially by those who have the M-small weener complex.

In Summary: Get the M3 if you have the means! it is an overall much better performer, stock to stock, it looks much nicer, it has better driving dynamics, and it has an unbeatable V8 race-bred engine. If you can't afford it, the 135i is a good simple cheaper alternative.


Facts are:
* Dinan is the most undertuned of the tuners out there, and the so called warranty is laughable at best....search e90post or 1addicts for the horror stories. Steve Dinan is a great guy, but unfortunately Dinan's relationship with BMW has fallen badly and you WILL get much better performance out of the car with a JB3 or Procede.

* The 135i does have some slight understeer, which is simply fixed by spacers....I've done it . To really set it off, a good suspension and tire setup is required, so some decent coilovers and some good RE-11 or similar tires will set this car lose.

* Looks wise, the M3 destroys the 135i in almost every aspect. However, some simple mods can make the car nicer:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9195092...7620841440130/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ssabrip...7620837954416/

* the retard who said only females drive the 135i, probably needs to get out of the closet and join GALA. BMW USA numbers are that: 81% of the owners are males, and 78% of those are between the ages of 25-49. Perhaps in Utah, and in Jersey city, only the girls have it, but the rest of the country is male dominated in that market.

* The 135i desperately needs a true LSD, eventhough the e-lsd does somewhat of a patch job on it. But despite this, it does a superb job for the little car that it is. BMW really did a great job with the bugger, I just wished they would have made it more "appealing to the eyes" and put the darn LSD in there. All and all, however, it does a great job.....not too shabby for an otherwise stock car with a JB3 and coilovers (a whole $1986 later):
http://www.m3post.com/forums/attachm...2&d=1239798027
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...se#post4919346


I don't get the hate from some of the M owners. You guys have the better car (as it should be) and instead of giving praise to your little brother for its great performance for the price, you shit on it every other opportunity.

I personally bought the 135i because I wanted a simple daily driver that would be agood weekend track car, but could just as well have bought the M3. But given the X5 already in the wife's hand, and other things that are needed in this economy, the 135i does a great job.

as I said, if you can afford it, get the M3 and dont look back....can't replace the real thing. If you can't, or don't want to, the 135i is nothing to be embarrased about...it is a superb machine and one of the best performance dollar per dollar that $40k can buy you these days.

thank you defending the 1er and providing an honest opinion.

Originally Posted by 330CIZHP

^^^^

Well said. However, you are one of the exceptions and not the norm with your balanced thinking and appreciating things for what they are. More 335 owners need to learn from you. Trust me, I can see why M3 owners get so aggitated by the 335 owners since I have seen countless dumba** 335 owners who go around harping that BMW made a huge mistake with the new M3 and for the first time a regular 3-series kills the M3 so much so that BMW has to downplay the 335 by restraining it to 300 HP from factory to keep the sales of the M3 otherwise, there is absolutely no reason to get an M3 since 335 is much more capable once you throw Vishnu or JB on it.

It is almost as if they are determined to prove that the 335 is what M3 should have been and that it owns every M-car once you throw JB3 on it.

No joke. That is true story. I never have seen so much resentment towards M-cars by regular 3-series owners as much as I have seen it in the 335 clan.

seriously guys, what is with all the hate towards the 135? i could have easily bought an m3, but i didnt want to because i really liked the 1er and don't need an m3 especially when i am looking for the right Murcielago 6 speed to pick up that can CRUSH ALL OF YOUR CARS, but you dont see me throwing it in peoples faces. a car is a car enthusiasts pride and joy, and making them and their car feel inferior is a real slimy move pulled off by someone sitting behind their computer screen because their SO wont put out. so why dont you ass-clown tiny pricked m3 drivers that have this elitist attitude get the hell down off of your high horse, yes the e92 m3 is a better car than the 135i, but the 135i is much faster and better than every m3 before it.

/rant

can we cut the hate and learn to respect and appreciate other people and their cars?

[artifice]

Originally Posted by jibaholic101

thank you defending the 1er and providing an honest opinion.



seriously guys, what is with all the hate towards the 135? i could have easily bought an m3, but i didnt want to because i really liked the 1er and don't need an m3 especially when i am looking for the right Murcielago 6 speed to pick up that can CRUSH ALL OF YOUR CARS, but you dont see me throwing it in peoples faces. a car is a car enthusiasts pride and joy, and making them and their car feel inferior is a real slimy move pulled off by someone sitting behind their computer screen because their SO wont put out. so why dont you ass-clown tiny pricked m3 drivers that have this elitist attitude get the hell down off of your high horse, yes the e92 m3 is a better car than the 135i, but the 135i is much faster and better than every m3 before it.

/rant

can we cut the hate and learn to respect and appreciate other people and their cars?

I agreed, but like I said it is up to a person of what they want, and to the OP just decide by what best suits him.

On a side note: "i could have easily bought an m3, but i didnt want to because i really liked the 1er and don't need an m3 especially when i am looking for the right Murcielago 6 speed to pick up that can CRUSH ALL OF YOUR CARS, but you dont see me throwing it in peoples faces"

You just did, I'm sure there are many posters on here that have nicer cars that don't show or flaunt.

I hope you get the car...those are nice. Lots of maintenance...

[bluejaypanther]

A lot of this has been said, but I want to say it anyways. To the M3 owners who have shown restraint and avoided treating this thread as a pissing contest, kudos. Yours is a fantastic car. I saw one on the street last month and went out of my way to have a closer look- beautiful.

The rest of you leave me scratching my head. I'm a 25 year old fortunate enough to have 35k to buy a car, and I can't wait for my 135i to get here- such an amazing combination of a freakish torque band with some actual liveability to go with it. From my perspective this E90 chest-thumping is just asinine- and I say this as someone who in 10 years or so, if the dino-juice is still reasonably obtainable, might go out and get an M3 myself. But even then I'll still be a piss-ant to a Veyron (which I wouldn't buy even if I could afford ten of them).

So, to those of you who feel the need to be a big man and take a dump on a car that costs 20-30K less then yours, and is only faster than 99.2% of all cars on the road, rather than 99.8%, I have a serious question. What fields did you go into to be so successful in life as to be able to afford an M3, and yet lack so much maturity and perspective?

[vasracer]

i like the last several posts here...

I too grappled with the decision between 135i and m3. And it is a valid comparison, because for the few people who appreciate actually driving these things, the m3 and the 135i are bmw's only real choices.

There is no doubt in my mind the m3 is a special car, extremely over-engineered for 99% of us. But in reality, you have to take the car to the track to make use of it, the exhaust note is great, the cachet is great, but it eventually wasn't worth 300-400$ a month.

The 135i with some suspension mods (i have dinan stage 3) is a very respectable car, anywhere. I don't even plan on doing the easy thing and flashing it or chipping it, because where can i use that power? All of these cars are already fast enough.

I do respect the m3 and their owners, they have an amazing car, and I will always give a big thumbs up on the road to them when I see them. But just don't think the 135i is bad...

[SoreHead]

Originally Posted by bluejaypanther

A lot of this has been said, but I want to say it anyways. To the M3 owners who have shown restraint and avoided treating this thread as a pissing contest, kudos. Yours is a fantastic car. I saw one on the street last month and went out of my way to have a closer look- beautiful.

The rest of you leave me scratching my head. I'm a 25 year old fortunate enough to have 35k to buy a car, and I can't wait for my 135i to get here- such an amazing combination of a freakish torque band with some actual liveability to go with it. From my perspective this E90 chest-thumping is just asinine- and I say this as someone who in 10 years or so, if the dino-juice is still reasonably obtainable, might go out and get an M3 myself. But even then I'll still be a piss-ant to a Veyron (which I wouldn't buy even if I could afford ten of them).

So, to those of you who feel the need to be a big man and take a dump on a car that costs 20-30K less then yours, and is only faster than 99.2% of all cars on the road, rather than 99.8%, I have a serious question. What fields did you go into to be so successful in life as to be able to afford an M3, and yet lack so much maturity and perspective?

This is exactly the way all of these posts go in VS section. I don't know why people bother.

For the record I don't like the shape of the 1 series but that's just me. Everyone to their own. I'm sure I'd enjoy driving it and you'll love it as you like the shape. (what colour?)

Given the time and patience I can make a Toyota Yaris faster than my M3 but couldn't be arsed so the fact that someone can make another BMW faster doesn't really come as a surprise or bother me in the slightest

What gets my goat is the nonsense like the previous page : "I have a chip on my 135 and it can do 0-60 in 4.1 secs"
BOLLOX. Complete and utter. The M3 has the suspension/diff setup to get the power down on launch to hit 60 in a real 4.5-4.6secs.
The 1 series doesn't even have an LSD and has skinnier tyres etc. You can throw all the power in the world at it but that's not going to get it to launch as fast never mind almost 0.5secs faster than the M3. Who tested it? Him and his mate with the stopwatch? Shite talk which unfortunately gets the knocking kicked off on here.

As for all the 1 series knockers get over it. All things being equal my guess is almost everyone that is into BMW's fast cars would take the M3 given the chance. Not everyone has the chance unfortunately and it's not a reason to knock them for it.

I used to tune cars in my younger days and probably had myself convinced I'd take my tuned car over whatever was around at the time but the reality is we make the best of what we have and most will defend it. It's all good.

To the OP if money is no object I can speak as a devout M3 hater, just converted, that you will love the whole package. It truly is an incredible car. If you decide to go with the 135 I would recommend not tuning it for a while and then slowly adding mods so you get a buzz for longer. No matter how much power you get it'll be too little after a month or so of driving it

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by SoreHead

...What gets my goat is the nonsense like the previous page : "I have a chip on my 135 and it can do 0-60 in 4.1 secs"
BOLLOX. Complete and utter. The M3 has the suspension/diff setup to get the power down on launch to hit 60 in a real 4.5-4.6secs.
The 1 series doesn't even have an LSD and has skinnier tyres etc. You can throw all the power in the world at it but that's not going to get it to launch as fast never mind almost 0.5secs faster than the M3. Who tested it? Him and his mate with the stopwatch? Shite talk which unfortunately gets the knocking kicked off on here...

With respect, I take issue here.

With its aftermarket-massaged torque mountain and perhaps slightly better power-to-weight, one can easily see how a tuned 135i might be measureably quicker to 60 than a stock M3. More on that below.

In addition, I also take minor issue with your mentioning an LSD in this context. That only comes into play if you're past the limit of adhesion, and if you are, you're doing it wrong. Best acceleration potential (meaning best adhesion) comes when the drive wheels are slipping in the range of eight to ten percent - no more. You might be hearing a very faint squeal if you're doing it right, but if you're leaving tread marks and hearing a screech, you're already way down on the coefficient of friction curve, and thus losing time.

Back on 0-60, I take your point that a well-managed M3 launch will have potentially better results than a similarly well-managed 135i launch - but since time to speed and time to distance are almost entirely unrelated, the M3 that "gets beat" to 60 might very well be ahead of the the 135i at that point. The only thing that a better time-to-speed proves is that the car with the lower number is gaining ground on the car with the higher number. It might be behind, even with, or ahead at the time.

Capiche?

Bruce

[aus]

Originally Posted by ersin

In a nutshell, the M3 brings everything good about the 135 up a notch or two.

Everything except the extra 300 lbs.

Originally Posted by BIGNTASTIE

135 is not for Men.

So the 2002 was not for men?

Originally Posted by vasracer

i like the last several posts here...

I too grappled with the decision between 135i and m3. And it is a valid comparison, because for the few people who appreciate actually driving these things, the m3 and the 135i are bmw's only real choices.

There is no doubt in my mind the m3 is a special car, extremely over-engineered for 99% of us. But in reality, you have to take the car to the track to make use of it, the exhaust note is great, the cachet is great, but it eventually wasn't worth 300-400$ a month.

The 135i with some suspension mods (i have dinan stage 3) is a very respectable car, anywhere. I don't even plan on doing the easy thing and flashing it or chipping it, because where can i use that power? All of these cars are already fast enough.

I do respect the m3 and their owners, they have an amazing car, and I will always give a big thumbs up on the road to them when I see them. But just don't think the 135i is bad...

And vasracer, with his 135, will SMOKE 98% of M3 drivers on a track.
Does the Dinan stage 3 include the M3 arms/bushings? I think that would make a huge improvement on how the 135 handles.

[michaeldorian]

Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.

From my perspective, the M3 is the better car (more on that later), but the 135i is definitely more fun to drive. It's more fun because it's lazy fast when you're just driving around, it's less likely to draw unwanted attention, and it is definitely more tossable, which to me means that BMW has committed the unforgiveable sin of simply piling on too many inches and too many pounds on the M cars.

The 1 series is too heavy as well, but compared to the M3, it feels like a lightweight. That's because it not only weighs a fair bit less, but the shorter wheelbase has allowed BMW to get back to that magic they're famous for - which is casual back-road banditry. The M3 feels less wieldly in this environment than the 1 series.

As to lazy fast, the M3 will get your heart to pounding when it's singing its high E over C song at 8 grand, but it's a little lazy in everyday driving using the left hand side of the tach. In that environment, the turbo six just pulls like a train from low revs in third or fourth gear, and you're way the hell down the road with no need for sturm and drang - and nobody the wiser, including the right seat.

The M3 is arguably a terrific car - but it's an early Sunday morning toy. Everywhere else except on track, the 1 series feels and is quicker, and effortlessly so. You get to stay under the radar (so to speak), and have a ball - every day.

It's also a ton better on gas, which today is just flat good.

The only thing it needs is a set of sneakers from Michelin or Dunlop, and the ride and stick both get dramatically improved from an already high plane.

Bruce

PS - You seem like a guy who doesn't need a car to prove his manhood (unlike a bunch of folks in this forum), and if I'm right about that, the 1 series will bring you a bunch more joy than the M3 will.

Great analysis Bruce. I agree with everything here. Very well stated. If it wasn't for the massive depreciation I'd take on a trade-in, I would consider getting the 135i. That and the bulgy headlights. I just can't seem to get over that looks from the front.

[Noodlefoxes]

Originally Posted by Big Windy

Seriously? I don't even think responding to this would make any bit of difference. -1

+1 "Irregardless" is not a real word anyway(s)

However, as the owner of a 135i w/ auto i can tell you the auto blows sorry

[SoreHead]

Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.

With respect, I take issue here.

With its aftermarket-massaged torque mountain and perhaps slightly better power-to-weight, one can easily see how a tuned 135i might be measureably quicker to 60 than a stock M3. More on that below.

In addition, I also take minor issue with your mentioning an LSD in this context. That only comes into play if you're past the limit of adhesion, and if you are, you're doing it wrong. Best acceleration potential (meaning best adhesion) comes when the drive wheels are slipping in the range of eight to ten percent - no more. You might be hearing a very faint squeal if you're doing it right, but if you're leaving tread marks and hearing a screech, you're already way down on the coefficient of friction curve, and thus losing time.

Back on 0-60, I take your point that a well-managed M3 launch will have potentially better results than a similarly well-managed 135i launch - but since time to speed and time to distance are almost entirely unrelated, the M3 that "gets beat" to 60 might very well be ahead of the the 135i at that point. The only thing that a better time-to-speed proves is that the car with the lower number is gaining ground on the car with the higher number. It might be behind, even with, or ahead at the time.

Capiche?

Bruce

I have no doubt that with enough time and money you could make any car that is normally way slower than another out accelerate it but the poster specifically said he did a CHIP style mod (I know it's all reflashing etc now but you get the gist). There was no mention of suspension/tyre/wheel/anything else mods and in that case I would say you could throw 800bhp at the 135 and it wouldn't get the power down enough to out drag the M3.

If you took a 135 with an identical chassis/suspension/wheel/tyre setup to an M3 and gave it 400bhp the better power to weight would almost guarantee it a better 0-60 every time but a better power to weight without the other mods will just leave you spinning rubber. The assuming the other mods there is still no way in hell you're going to knock 0.5secs off that measure as the power to weight is nowhere near good enough to do it. End of story.

Then you have the fact that it's one of us on here claiming it so where is he getting the figures from?? Does he have the thousands and thousands of dollars worth of GPS equipment to measure it??? My guess is no or he'd have bought the M3 in the first place

Honestly I have no issue with people tuning cars or having a faster car then me or someone else (I promise I don't) but I hate stupid claims like the manufacturers of a free flowing air filter that claim 30bhp gains etc etc. That is the one thing that annoys the shit out of me.

On the OP's original query, if the M3 is no problem for you to buy then why not buy it and mod it? If you prefer the M3 then that's the way to go. If you prefer the 135 then that's the way to go. Bottom line is it's a money issue. If you can afford it then the M3 will always be the faster car. Stick a supercharger in for 15k and there's no one in a 135 that will ever touch you without spending more than the total you've spent. Also, regardless of any claims made pushing a 135/335 to 400bhp will not leave you with a particularly reliable car regardless of the lucky few. BMW didn't keep it at 300bhp because it would embarrass the M3 they bring out cars at less than their full potential for 2 reasons and 2 reasons only no matter what anyone claims. Reliability and future power boosts for sales. End of.

If you don't believe that reliability of any model is affected by increasing power then the best of luck to you and your investment. All you need to look at is what manufacturers do when they increase power by anything more that 10 or 20bhp. They always change some internals. If you're giving a warrantee you need to know the engine won't give trouble. Look at the FQ versions of the EVO. Once they go beyond 30bhp they ALWAYS change internals. It's only aftermarket modders that don't. You can be lucky but I figure the people that design and build them know best.

P.S.
0-60 is pure magazine marketing from the days when 7secs was fast and manufactures hate it. Something like an M3 is only getting into it's stride at that stage. Imagine the strain the whole drivetrain on something like a Veyron must be under to do it in 2.5secs. Ouchy.

Bottom line from my perspective is buy whatever the hell you want/can afford/like/feel like at the time and enjoy it. There's far too many cars out there and far too few of us to enjoy them. Hey. It might not be long before we all have to drive alternative fuel vehicles which I'm sure they'll get fast but we'll have lost the engine notes we all love.

Peace, love, harmony and plenty of exhaust fumes.

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by SoreHead

I have no doubt that with enough time and money you could make any car that is normally way slower than another out accelerate it but the poster specifically said he did a CHIP style mod (I know it's all reflashing etc now but you get the gist). There was no mention of suspension/tyre/wheel/anything else mods and in that case I would say you could throw 800bhp at the 135 and it wouldn't get the power down enough to out drag the M3...

Not sure what you mean by "out accelerate". I personally believe that a chipped but otherwise stock 135i very well might beat the M3 to 60 but be behind at the time due to traction deficencies.

Not sure I can be any clearer. Do you understand that time to speed and time to distance are essentially unrelated?

[SoreHead]

Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.

Not sure what you mean by "out accelerate". I personally believe that a chipped but otherwise stock 135i very well might beat the M3 to 60 but be behind at the time due to traction deficencies.

Not sure I can be any clearer. Do you understand that time to speed and time to distance are essentially unrelated?

Quite possibly but there is no chance in hell it will hit 60mph 0.5secs faster (driver and conditions being equal).

I understand very well about most auto related subjects. I also understand physics and the fact that if you can't lay the power down as well in one car as you can in another you have very little chance of getting anywhere quicker. If your wheels are spinning you won't hit 60mph quicker (the spinning wheels might but not the car ). The traction deficiencies you speak of are exactly the reason I say the previous poster is dreaming about his 0-60 time.

You believe he could. I believe he can't. And at the end of it neither of us owns one or will lose any sleep over it