09 m3 vs 09 135i + dinan s2 (disclaimer-love 'em both...aaagh.) so help!

[s3touring]

as the title suggests - i'm torn. i dont want this to turn into a shouting match, and i understand of course i'm posting this in the m3 forum.

here are my reasons/comments. would really appreciate you guys chiming in.

1. for business reasons, it must be leased. my setup will be 36 months, 17k miles a yr. at this point, talking to my fleet guy there is not much on the line up that is catching me hard. the m5/m6 have the power, but 5 yrs into it i still cant get my heart around the looks, at certain angles. the x6 - well, very interesting, but i have the slo-wagon that'll do the same thing.

2. my goal? i want the smallest nice car that can carry 4 (i'm short, my wife is shorter, and my 2 girls still at home are even shorter. ). oh - the fastest, too.

3. in comes the 135i coupe. seeing it in person, and sitting in the BACK seat, wow! there really is not anything else in the bmw lineup like it, or for that matter out there. the only comparisons i can offer are mostly emotional, looks of the car, and very superficial technical points (i'm a certified mechanical idiot.)

m3 - hands down the front looks unbelievable. side is great, not a fan of the rear. love the quads, but it's bit too close for me, almost looks cross eyed, and there is something aesthetically off with how all the folds and creases and vents end up on that rear fascia. it's sort of aggressively confused, like a mean wrestler with some make-up. interior - nothing really that sets it apart from the 135i in particular thati is meaningful to me. performance and handling? i'm sure it will be better than the 135i, but by how much? ah yes. that's where you all have to educate me.

135i - while it may not be as aggressively sculptured as the m3, that front is mean enough for this little bruiser. i do like it 360 degrees. the one thing i like about its looks is it is quite the sleeper next to an m3. the m3 screams fast, and almost eveyrone knows it is. the 135i - well, not quite. it looks harmless nest to the m3. and i happen to like that. i already know performance-wise that i will do the dinan stage 2 tune, (getting the auto so no flywheel to change), and still a maybe on the suspension, stage 2, not 3. if i get my hands on some superlightweight german wheels that i LIKE - and change tires - likely some michelin ps2, or yoko advan neova, that shld do it. (fyi, i am sold on dinan, partly because the warranty issue is a big deal to me, secondly because it is street legal, and thirdly because i am a happy customer. my 03 540 touring is a full s3, and the last 30k miles have been nothing but insane enjoyment out of my sleeper hauler. i say that not to say riss/jb are not great. i'm sure they are judging from so many wonderful comments on the forum.)

so - my cliff note question on performance is: with what i have in mind - how close will those dinan mods get me to the m3's performance?

4. any of you know which of the 2 there's more of on the street? i'd rather pick the lesser one.

5. catch is, no specials on the 135i, but killer lease rates on the m3 coupe. i will add payments are thankfully not an issue. had it been possible to set up an 03 alpina z8 (135k) i found as a lease, i'd been done. so if all those mods put the 135i at par with the m3, i'll stick with the 135i. if the m3 will still have a substantial edge, then i will go with the m3.

looking forward to all of your replies. i'll have some serious head banging to do.

thanks!

jack

ps - had an e46 m3 for 48k awesome miles from 4/02 to 4/06...

[M2381]

All I gotta say is test drive both of them and I think the answer will be clear. Make sure you get a car thats done with the break in period so you can play around with it a little bit

[waremark]

No idea how much performance you would get out of the 135, but I can offer some general comments. In our family we have an M3 Coupe and a 123d Coupe (diesel version not offered on your side of the Atlantic). Both are good to drive.

My wife who has been in the back of both says the M3 is significantly better in the back - a bit more airy and with a better view out.

The M3's extra performance all comes at high revs - holding the gears up to 8,000 is the way to get the best sound and performance out of the M3, although it is pleasantly swift at low revs - much more so than the E46.

The M3 has too short a range - very poor gas mileage combined with a small tank. The 123d is far better, I don't know how your 135 would compare.

The M3 is quiet enough at cruising speed, but the 123d is quieter.

Looks are very personal; I think the M3 looks far better, and that there is more feeling that it is a special car.

[ericlikescars]

I just cant justify comparing the M to the 1 series. The 1 series is a great car, and looks like tons of fun. but anyone that I've talked to calls it "cute". Not to mention 100 percent of drivers I've seen driving it have been females.

The M3 to me is the sickest car in BMW's lineup. I would have it over an M6 and an M5, just because the driver feedback it gives is so special. I grin from ear to ear whenever I step into my brothers M3. (We have an M3, M6, and my 335i in the family.)

My e46 M3 was amazing, and I miss it dearly. I thought the 335 would be a great replacement, but theres something about that M Badge being gone that just makes me want to tear!

It's all personal preference I guess, but I wish you luck on your purcahse and hope I helped in some way.

[MrHarris]

Originally Posted by ericlikescars

I just cant justify comparing the M to the 1 series. The 1 series is a great car, and looks like tons of fun. but anyone that I've talked to calls it "cute". Not to mention 100 percent of drivers I've seen driving it have been females.

The M3 to me is the sickest car in BMW's lineup. I would have it over an M6 and an M5, just because the driver feedback it gives is so special. I grin from ear to ear whenever I step into my brothers M3. (We have an M3, M6, and my 335i in the family.)

My e46 M3 was amazing, and I miss it dearly. I thought the 335 would be a great replacement, but theres something about that M Badge being gone that just makes me want to tear!

It's all personal preference I guess, but I wish you luck on your purcahse and hope I helped in some way.

+1

[NewM3driver]

The current M3 is the best car BMW has EVER made. Think about that. Pretty good car company... best car in their history to date. The M3 is one of the best cars on the road, irregardless of price, period.

You want to compare it to a modded out version of the cheapest car they make... a marketing gimmick to lure entry level sales...

Are you kidding???

[aus]

If you want to get close to the performce of the M3 with the 135, Dinan won't get you there. You'll need JB3 or Vishnu. The JB3 is plug and play, but you do have to open the ECU. You'll also need downpipes, which then voids your warranty unless you're willing to change them out when you go to the dealer.

And don't feel too secure in that Dinan warranty. It's VERY fuzzy and people have had problems with it. If a turbo blows, who covers it? Dinan and the dealer will both blame each other.
Not to mention, if the dealer re-flashes your car, it just killed your Dinan reflash.

[CUD]

I know it does not compare to the i135 but it does to the AMG C63

Interesting to watch.

[jlaw]

You've heard the term "no-brainer" used to describe an easy, obvious decision? This is one of those. Get the M3 and don't look back.

[FStop7]

135i understeers so badly, not enough tire in front and not a lot of room to add more.

[NewM3driver]

135I rides like shit too.

[RandyB]

Originally Posted by NewM3driver

The current M3 is the best car BMW has EVER made. Think about that. Pretty good car company... best car in their history to date. The M3 is one of the best cars on the road, irregardless of price, period.

You want to compare it to a modded out version of the cheapest car they make... a marketing gimmick to lure entry level sales...

Are you kidding???

Solid post. I agree.

[Big Windy]

Originally Posted by NewM3driver

The current M3 is the best car BMW has EVER made. Think about that. Pretty good car company... best car in their history to date. The M3 is one of the best cars on the road, irregardless of price, period.

You want to compare it to a modded out version of the cheapest car they make... a marketing gimmick to lure entry level sales...

Are you kidding???

Seriously? I don't even think responding to this would make any bit of difference. -1

[armyav8tor]

You can mod a Dodge Neon to be as fast as a M3 but that is not the point. The experience you get with a M car can not be emulated with a 135. I test drove the 135 and did not like it at all, it drove just like my 335. The only difference was the ugly exterior and the matching cheap ugly interior. But in the end, go with what you like and what you can afford.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by RandyB

Solid post. I agree.

I actually don't. Though the M3 E9x is a great car, ever heard of the M3 CSL?

I used to own a 6MT 335i for 2 years. Great car, the 135i is a great car as well in many ways. M3 is 'better' but more expensive. To say the M3 is the best car BMW ever built is not my opinion. Could be the new 7 series, could be the M6, could have been the 1978 M1...could have been the E30 M3 Cecotto...to name a few.

[waremark]

Here are a couple of snips from the UK Forum Pistonheads, from a guy (Pugsey) who drives an E92 M3 and whose recent car history includes Porsche GT3 and Ferrari 430:

"Girlfriend has a 135iMsport Cab. Fantastic little car, superb chassis and just fun fun fun - I've posted a mini rave about it before"

"Fantastic little car. Lovely chassis which is really nimble and fun after the more seriously wheeled and tyred M3. The +300bhp twin turbo six in a smaller lighter car gives E46 M3 performance - which suprises a lot of people! - and sounds great. Better looking than the current 3 Series cab too I think. More compact and squat/aggressive - certainly in 135iMsport guise anyway. It's unique in BM's 'sporting' line up in having very good spec brakes too. Think I've said it before but I genuinely think the Coupe version would probably be more 'fun' on todays roads than my M3 - and not that much slower. HOWEVER we all like to feel we've got the ultimate don't we - hence the M3.

"Tbo it's a cracking car anyway and as I said performance is already on a par with the E46 M3 but with a lighter more 'fun' feel to the chassis. Seriously thought about getting a Coupe version myself - in white - completely gutting it, popping in a cage and lightweight seat and using it as a reliable and quick 'Ring tool. In the right hands I think it would have a few Porsche drivers scratching their heads."

This link was posted in a discussion about modding it:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3517

[RandyB]

Originally Posted by Robin Hood

I actually don't. Though the M3 E9x is a great car, ever heard of the M3 CSL?

I thought of that car as I posted, but the new one is superior to it even though the CSL is more special and appeals to more of us. That said, I have never seen a CSL in person much less had the chance to drive one.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by s3touring

2. my goal? i want the smallest nice car that can carry 4 (i'm short, my wife is shorter, and my 2 girls still at home are even shorter. ). oh - the fastest, too.

Is this your primary family hauler? If so, a 2 door will get old quickly. E90 M3 would be a better choice.

[jaay11]

Not sure if there really is a question here. If there is....the question would be:

Do you want a long lived power car that is well respected on the road and track or do you want a "cute" car? If you have the money, get the M. If not, go with the 135 or even the 335.

btw, with a family, you're actually more interested in a M3 Sedan v. 335 Sedan.

[Kobaiyashi]

Not sure what's up with all the 135i haters. It's a good car in my book though I do agree that it seems more prone to understeer than the M3 (though I'm no expert and have only test driven it a few times.)

Aside from that though, most things I've read about the 1 say its a fantastic sports car. When I made my choice, I decided against it primarily because a) I wanted a car with some luxury and b) I like the feel/idea of a naturally aspirated engine.

However, if you can't really see a difference between the interior (check out an M3 with extended leather) and think its big enough for 4 (again, I'd doubt anyone would want to sit in the back of a 1 for very long), then the great performance of the 1 series combined with lower cost and better gas millage makes for a very compelling package.

Here's Top Gear Australia's test comparing the 135 and M3.

[oneginee]

I was at the dealer the other day and he had a 09 135i parked right next to a black M3 E93. It's quite simple to compare. The 135 is ugly and looks like an immature teenager's first car (did you say you have a family ?) the front especially is disproportionate. The M3 next to it is refined and looks like a prince's car. But if you like a small car for this price then you would be better of with a modified mitsubishi evo. If you like small cars and want to pay M3 waterlines then buy a porsche. I can tell from your post you know the M3 is the better choice but want the smaller car maybe you can't afford the M.

[ersin]

In a nutshell, the M3 brings everything good about the 135 up a notch or two. You may be able to bring the performance of the 135 up to M3 territory but the M3 will still have bigger back seats, better leather, stereo, chassis, etc. However, you will pay more -- cost, insurance, mileage, and maintenance (but only after 4 years so this is not a factor for you) -- for the M3.