Official Harrop TVS1740 Supercharger Thread

[Bakerboy]

Originally Posted by BPMSport

The timing is ultra conservative in the software, and the fueling is also pretty rich. There is definitely more to be had on top, particularly after 5,500. Given that we needed this kit to withstand repeated abuse on very long and challenging tracks such as the Nürburgring, we kept the software very safe.

We've got the larger stage II injectors calibrated for the most part on our car here in the US - just need to have the pulleys changed and get her back on the dyno. In Australia, the Harrop M3 is supposed to receive a standalone to aid in fine tuning that can be ported back over to those running the stock DME. I will have to check on the progress of this. I've been toying with the idea of emulating the stock ECU for live tuning which would make this process significantly easier and more effective, but there are some limitations there as well. Marshall - I still need to look at your logs, by next week without a doubt. Please ping me with a reminder. We just moved offices so are getting back into the swing of things.

When are you planning on starting the mapping with the smaller pulley Mike?

What’s the expectation of power and likely costs of upgrade?

I’m happy with stage 1 for now but interested for future all the same.

[DukeofAlexandria]

What exactly does the Stage 2 come with?

Just bigger injectors?

I'm looking to possibly buy a Harrop (I love the low end torque) and then pushing a Snow Kit into it. Post plenum and roots blower. Have been toying with mock up models of injectors right at the bottom and incorporating a 1/2" velocity stack, tapping it and inserting a water/meth kit from Snow.

Has anyone done this yet or done much with Harrop as far as Meth/water injection goes?

[BPMSport]

Stage II will consist of larger injectors, and a different pulley setup + tune. The pulley i have here for the following stage is too aggressive at 9PSI, so I need to work with Harrop on having another one produced to lower that to 7.5/8ish and resume testing.

The most effective water injection setups would be as you mentioned - most setups do not utilize an injector per cylinder, and inject the water/meth much further back, so they are less effective.

Here is a Stage I dyno a customer sent us a couple weeks ago, lookin very nice!

[DukeofAlexandria]

Alright then, and that's exactly my thought as well (for the meth/water injection).

It doesn't make sense to do meth/water injection before the charge pipe, as thermal expansion and compression within the chamber is going to greatly increase charge temps, specifically with the Harrop twin screw blower design.

I think the best would be either to drill into the plenum (right under the intercoolers in the Harrop unit) or add in some sort of velocity stacks that the entire unit can sit on, and port into those stacks underneath everything - which would give maximum potential for a solid cooler charge temp and cool down of the piston head upon induction.

As for a Stage II Harrop kit with larger injectors, pulley, and different tune - If you could get this to consistently pull a 600HP back to back, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

I think you're right in the ballpark of making this happen with the injectors and pulley setup. I'd love to see it pull 625HP all day long with a good meth/water injection build up and even if you don't do an individual per cylinder setup, I'm almost positive you can get over that 600 mark on a regular basis.

I'm very interested in something along these lines, please keep us/me updated as to what occurs and what's happening. I've traded 4-5 e-mails back and forth with Snow Performance and I can have them code the injector module to accommodate what I'm asking - I just need figure out tolerances within such a tight space under the plenum.

Thanks very much!

-M

[eternallx]

Originally Posted by BPMSport

Stage II will consist of larger injectors, and a different pulley setup + tune. The pulley i have here for the following stage is too aggressive at 9PSI, so I need to work with Harrop on having another one produced to lower that to 7.5/8ish and resume testing.

[eternallx]

Curious if anyone ever got on a vbox or something similar for a 60-130mph time?

[L4ces]

Off topic.

I got to ride in one recently for the first time. The whine was not as prominent as it sounded in some videos. It sounded good and I wouldn't have second thoughts if my car produced the same sound. I actually liked it.

[Mvy]

Originally Posted by L4ces

Off topic.

I got to ride in one recently for the first time. The whine was not as prominent as it sounded in some videos. It sounded good and I wouldn't have second thoughts if my car produced the same sound. I actually liked it.

After two years of driving it, I dont just like the sound, I miss it when I have to drive a stupid rental car. It turns the car into an exotic in my opinion.

[Gotgate]

Hanging out for stage 2 and/or E85 updates! Share the corn juice love with the people Mike!

[Product]

I never personally seen an m3 with this kit installed yet. Everyone always gets the VF kits.

[GORDON.M3]

Originally Posted by Product

I never personally seen an m3 with this kit installed yet. Everyone always gets the VF kits.

Harrop is one of the best superchargers money can get and BPMsport makes the best tunes to pair with it, scratch that, BPMSport makes the best tunes period.

[DukeofAlexandria]

Originally Posted by M3Post

It essentially makes the S65 think it's a V12.

Yeah, gonna have to agree here. The linear nature of this style blower has always been the best of both worlds to me. Gradual power throughout the band and able to give great torque numbers running around town and in lower gears.

VF, ESS, etc. are great, but the peakiness of those (like a turbo) have always turned me off. I'd rather have consistent power band then suddenly getting dumped into boost land.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by DukeofAlexandria

VF, ESS, etc. are great, but the peakiness of those (like a turbo) have always turned me off. I'd rather have consistent power band then suddenly getting dumped into boost land.

Not sure I follow here. Have you driven a VF or ESS supercharged car? Centrifugal superchargers do not "dump into boost land" and do not experience any spike in power. They build boost/power very gradually by design. What you are describing is a big turbo with lag, which is nothing at all like what you get from an ESS/VF kit. Centrifugal kits maintain the exact same linear power delivery characteristics of a stock S65.

[Mvy]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

Not sure I follow here. Have you driven a VF or ESS supercharged car? Centrifugal superchargers do not "dump into boost land" and do not experience any spike in power. They build boost/power very gradually by design. What you are describing is a big turbo with lag, which is nothing at all like what you get from an ESS/VF kit. Centrifugal kits maintain the exact same linear power delivery characteristics of a stock S65.

I think their argument is ESS/VF kits dont show their power until 5k RPM where as you see it sooner with a PS SC, closer to 3k rpm.

[XIX]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

Not sure I follow here. Have you driven a VF or ESS supercharged car? Centrifugal superchargers do not "dump into boost land" and do not experience any spike in power. They build boost/power very gradually by design. What you are describing is a big turbo with lag, which is nothing at all like what you get from an ESS/VF kit. Centrifugal kits maintain the exact same linear power delivery characteristics of a stock S65.

I have owned both, torque is where the difference is, not power, centri's leech torque early in the range. They are chalk and cheese, one is at full boost way earlier, whereas the other comes onto boost further along.

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by XIX

I have owned both, torque is where the difference is, not power, centri's leech torque early in the range. They are chalk and cheese, one is at full boost way earlier, whereas the other comes onto boost further along.

Make boost sooner but end up loosing imaging that lol. What good does earlier tq make if you are never at that rpm for a race?

[Gotgate]

Originally Posted by Properstyle

Make boost sooner but end up loosing imaging that lol. What good does earlier tq make if you are never at that rpm for a race?

The good is that the earlier tq makes it night and day difference whilst driving it 99.99% of the time where im not "racing"

[tmak90]

Any news or updates on release of the stage 2?

[DukeofAlexandria]

Originally Posted by Gotgate

The good is that the earlier tq makes it night and day difference whilst driving it 99.99% of the time where im not "racing"

Yes, exactly.

I'm not going to be full bore loading at 5K racing around my local streets where the speed limit is 35-55mph. In a race application sure, centri beats you out top end. But like Gotgate said, 99.99% of the time I'll be cruising around the street.

I've driven a centri (ESS) and driven in a posi (Harrop) and while dumping it into "boost land" isn't the best phrasing, I constantly had to keep it above 4-5K to really feel the tq difference in the ESS car. I understand the differences between both and I just prefer a more linear feel of the Harrop compared to the ESS I drove, just my personal preference.

If Harrop (by extension BPMSport )came out with a stage-II; bigger injectors, different pulley, some software tweaks, I don't think there would be as big a difference in the market as we are seeing right now. Harrop puts down good numbers (500-550WHP consistently) but nothing compared to a high spooled centri like ESS, VF, Autowerke, etc. who spool up stupid high at the top end and you end up in the 600+WHP mark.

*Hint, Hint, Hint* BPMSport

[DukeofAlexandria]

Originally Posted by M3Post

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LOL

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by DukeofAlexandria

Yes, exactly.

I'm not going to be full bore loading at 5K racing around my local streets where the speed limit is 35-55mph. In a race application sure, centri beats you out top end. But like Gotgate said, 99.99% of the time I'll be cruising around the street.

I've driven a centri (ESS) and driven in a posi (Harrop) and while dumping it into "boost land" isn't the best phrasing, I constantly had to keep it above 4-5K to really feel the tq difference in the ESS car. I understand the differences between both and I just prefer a more linear feel of the Harrop compared to the ESS I drove, just my personal preference.

If Harrop (by extension BPMSport )came out with a stage-II; bigger injectors, different pulley, some software tweaks, I don't think there would be as big a difference in the market as we are seeing right now. Harrop puts down good numbers (500-550WHP consistently) but nothing compared to a high spooled centri like ESS, VF, Autowerke, etc. who spool up stupid high at the top end and you end up in the 600+WHP mark.

*Hint, Hint, Hint* BPMSport

My last car made the same tq as these Harrop kits I see posted lol.. the funny part it made it at 3500 rpm. Johns car make 430wtq in a vf kit on a dyno jet as well. Neither one of us has to be above 4K to feel any torq. And on the hwy I don’t drop any gears at all to pass anyone. But when I do it’s a pretty nasty amount of acceleration.

Trying to say that even 10wtq drifference the car makes was the selling point is hilarious. The Harrop doesn’t make more tq like it should because the motor it’s. It attached to isn’t designed for it to. That same kit on a ss Camaro makes 550 plus tq because the motor is designed to make low en tq as thenmotor only revs to 6500. I’ve never understood people complaining about using a cars rpms that’s design to rev high. That be like buying a 458 but saying I don’t have the tq of a Zr1 lol...

[tmak90]

Originally Posted by M3Post

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