Alfa Romeo Stelvio Quadrifoglio

[importraceram]

Hi all,

I wanted to see if anyone has ever replaced their M3 with a Stelvio QV, if anyone has had any seat time in one, or simply opinions on the potential move. First and foremost, I know that no SUV (no matter how fast or how well they handle) will ever replace the overall driving experience of the e9x M3. I know the proper move would be to keep the M3 and ADD a performance SUV however I am relegated to only one vehicle at this time.

I know that we often talk about X5M's here (naturally) and sometimes a Porsche truck (suv) will get tossed around too but I have never seen any mention of a Stelvio QV. Perhaps because they are quite a bit more rare than the previously mentioned SUV's and the return of the Alfa brand in the US hasn't quite taken off like they had hoped (or at least it doesn't seem like it).

What is leading me to this you may ask? My wife and I have our second child due in August. While the e90 is practical, it is far from an SUV. My wife has a mid sized plain Jane vanilla SUV but I would like to transport the family in something with character/soul and she has no desire to own a performance SUV of sorts so buying her the QV and keeping the M3 is out. I also suspect that being a two SUV family will come in handy in many occasions (spoken like a true SUV-loving American there). I have never owned a performance SUV and, even though they are nothing new to market, they are starting to intrigue me with age. Additionally I just feel like, given my typical usage for my M3, I am just not driving it as it should be driven. I feel as though something with more usable low end power/tq might be a breath of fresh air. Rarely am I winding the glorious S65 out but rather driving in an A to B manner. Of course, that is my fault but I suspect that my time to "joyride" will dwindle even more with a second child.

Upon review of MANY videos and articles, it appears that the Stelvio QV is BLINDINGLY quick and handles extremely well lapping the nurburgring ring in 7:51.xx setting a production SUV record at its time of release. The record has obviously since been broken but it is still very high on the list of quickest production SUV's around that track to date. Motortrend has it 3.3 0-60 however I suspect that winning the Powerball jackpot is far more likely than pulling a 3.3 in one. I would think realistically mid to upper 3's which is still quick enough. I would assume the performance is due to its fairly "light" (for an SUV) weight and its nearly front-mid engine configuration.

Price point wise I'd be looking $40k or less which seems like you can get a decent mid mileage example. Other SUV's of consideration would be the usual suspects, X5/6 M, Macan Turbo, Cayenne Turbo or GTS, GLC63 AMG, Jag F pace SVR. The SVR and GLC63 being on the outer reaches of what I would want to spend ideally.

The thing that I like about the QV's, upon initial research, is the value.1 owner 5 year old models (first MY 2018) with mid miles (60k give or take) listed at or just below $40k. Who knows what they are actually selling for... upper 30's? I suppose that is a double edge sword though with regards to the depreciation...Cheap to buy but my suspicion is they will continue to fall in value unlike something like an e90 M3 (apples to oranges but you get the point). Another reason, I suppose, that they are cheaper than say a 5 year old 1 owner X5M is because they were not technically in the same category as direct competitors (even though the performance is pretty much the same as an f85). New the QV was $85-90k give or take compared to the $100k+ of the f85...Being an FCA product, I assume the build quality isn't quite on par with the fit and finish of the Germans. Another consideration but far from a deal breaker. Some (very rare) were equipped with Sparco CF seats as a factory option that are absolutely phenomenal looking.

I look forward to any feedback!

[Longboarder]

Stelvio seems like a very cool little SUV. I like the alcantara/cloth seat option. The design is pretty cool as well. But I don't know much about its reliability. Seems like that is paramount when hauling family members.

It also compares with the X3 or Macan in size, not the X5. Why don't you consider the X3M instead of the F85 X5M? At your price point you could get something newer possibly with CPO as well. And it's a tune away from being an absolute monster.

[lagunablue1]

Was going to echo the above point and say the Stelvio Q is much closer to an X3M or Macan GTS in size.

My X3M has been extremely reliable and there appear to be very few issues with the S58 engine. I did not cross shop the Stelvio because of the lack of dealers and reliability. I would say compared to the Macan GTS, the X3M has more backseat and trunk space, more power, but rides quite a bit stiffer. The Macan GTS definitely has the edge on ride as well as having PDK, but it is quite a bit more $$ and servicing outside of maintenance is also more $$.

FWIW the X3M is way faster than my E90 M3. But it definitely lacks the character/soul/feelign of the e9x and s65 (then again, so do 99.99% of cars made in the last few years, so probably a moot point).

[importraceram]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Stelvio seems like a very cool little SUV. I like the alcantara/cloth seat option. The design is pretty cool as well. But I don't know much about its reliability. Seems like that is paramount when hauling family members.

It also compares with the X3 or Macan in size, not the X5. Why don't you consider the X3M instead of the F85 X5M? At your price point you could get something newer possibly with CPO as well. And it's a tune away from being an absolute monster.

Thanks for chiming in, excellent points. I suppose why I compare f85, though not direct competitor, is because of the price similarity in the used market. X3M, while I am sure tremendous, is a bit more than I'd want to spend. Ideally looking to stay sub $40k. With some negotiation you can get a mid mileage Stelvio QV in the upper 30's which seems like some excellent value given performance.

With all of this said, the devil on my shoulder is telling me that selling the e90 is not the right move...I suppose the one nice thing about this chassis is that if you sell, inevitably regret your decision, you can get back in the game reasonably quickly as they are not rare. Granted prices of the nice examples are going up and condition of the rest, by and large, is decreasing.

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by importraceram

Thanks for chiming in, excellent points. I suppose why I compare f85, though not direct competitor, is because of the price similarity in the used market. X3M, while I am sure tremendous, is a bit more than I'd want to spend. Ideally looking to stay sub $40k. With some negotiation you can get a mid mileage Stelvio QV in the upper 30's which seems like some excellent value given performance.

With all of this said, the devil on my shoulder is telling me that selling the e90 is not the right move...I suppose the one nice thing about this chassis is that if you sell, inevitably regret your decision, you can get back in the game reasonably quickly as they are not rare. Granted prices of the nice examples are going up and condition of the rest, by and large, is decreasing.

The problem with these larger lux SUVs is the overall cost of ownership. Outside warranty, they are priced cheap in the used car market for a reason.

Look, I love the X5. I have had many of them over the years and currently have a 2021 F95 X5M and 2022 X5 xDrive40i. And I had a 2018 F85 X5M. These thing cost a lot to insure and to maintain and you are playing Russian Roulette outside the warranty especially for a higher mileage F85 priced in the upper $30's.

I don't know much about the Alfa but can see it being a nightmare outside warranty.

I think the odds are in favor of a CPO X3M being the better long-term financial decision.

Good luck.

[Shrike360]

As someone who keeps glancing at Giulia Quads, I think the short answer is: DON'T.

It could be the best driving sports sedan ever created, but at the end of the day, it's still a car. You have to own and maintain it, even it does turn out to be reliable (the Alfisti tend to hand wave stuff away, so I take their opinions with a grain of salt). This brings us first to the dealers. Alfas are not selling well. They sold about 40% less cars YoY in 2022. With Marchionne gone, it seems Stellantis wants to kill them. Dodge straight up stole their new compact CUV platform. This means that franchises typically don't want to maintain a store that's likely losing money with no relief in sight. I only have one dealer in my entire metro (and apparently their service department is horrible). There are no independents that work on new Alfas in the area. If the dealer shuts down, the next closest dealer is 150 miles away. Parts seem to be both extremely scarce and quite pricey. An oil filter alone is $90 at a discount. They require a new serpentine belt every 4 years, and it's an involved, 6-8 hour job. A lot of them have radiator leak issues. Bigger components can be 1+ years out. You get in any kind of a bump, you could be screwed.

What this means is, sooner or later, the cars will become rolling scrap unless someone steps in to supply parts and support. Owning one should be a very short term proposition, because I expect they will depreciate hard. I'd only buy one if I was willing to effectively throw that money away. Even if it's the sweetest car in the class to drive, pick another brand.

[nycplumber]

I test drove one and put quite the beating on it. My take aways were that it handled very good. Not 'Suv good'. More like sports car good. It sounded decent but wasn't my style. The biggest downside was interior quality. Coupled with the reliability issues it wasn't enough to sway me.

[Soden82]

Only ever driven a Giulia QV that my friend owns. He barely drives it so I have no metric of reliability but I haven’t heard good things. I’ve been told the stelvio handles amazing, but definitely cross shop other similar cars (X3M, SQ5, macan).

[pbonsalb]

This may not apply depending on the age of the Stelvio, but Alfa has moved way up the rankings:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/30/busin...y-jd-power-win

[kyrix1st]

Italian cars are art. You know how art is, one day it's a piece for generations, other a piece of garbage quickly to be forgotten.

[414bhp]

If you're still shopping, I think you should find a way to test drive either a Stelvio QV or Giulia QV. (You can read my test drives, but first hand experience is always more valuable!) They both have a similar flavor with regards to their steering, suspension, gearbox and engine.

To me, the Alfa's feel like they come from the digital age while the E90 M3 is analog. I'm a big steering snob, and I prefer the M3's hydraulic assistance over the Alfa's electric assisted steering. The engines are also opposites, too; low-revving turbo 6 vs high revving V8.

Take stock about what are your favorite attributes in cars, then see if the Alfa has those things!

Personally, I'd keep the M3.

[14_deltaM3]

Originally Posted by 414bhp

If you're still shopping, I think you should find a way to test drive either a Stelvio QV or Giulia QV. (You can read my test drives, but first hand experience is always more valuable!) They both have a similar flavor with regards to their steering, suspension, gearbox and engine.

To me, the Alfa's feel like they come from the digital age while the E90 M3 is analog. I'm a big steering snob, and I prefer the M3's hydraulic assistance over the Alfa's electric assisted steering. The engines are also opposites, too; low-revving turbo 6 vs high revving V8.

Take stock about what are your favorite attributes in cars, then see if the Alfa has those things!

Personally, I'd keep the M3.

I FINALLY had a chance to drive a Guilia QV for an extended time. I have been seriously toying with trading in the m3 for it at a local dealer.

My impressions:
- transmission was much better than anticipated. Very responsive up and down the gears. Paddles felt very nice to click - better than the Audi or m3 DCT paddles I’ve used.

- brake by wire was not noticeable at all. Brakes felt substantially better than the m3 in terms of power and confidence

- interior bits felt very, very cheap. The dash was warping from sun/heat exposure. Like my old e36!

- handling was great. So responsive. Lots of front end grip and confidence. Agility was a step up from the e92 and the f80 for sure. Very enjoyable to arc through a turn.

- rear grip was good, but the power delivery from the turbo engine made it far less predictable at the rear than the e92.

- once it gripped and hooked up, considerably faster than the e92. Was very impressed by this, however, it was not the mad rush to redline I crave. Power came hard in the midrange and held to redline, but was not exciting.

- sounded good for a turbo engine. It’s no e92, but better than the f80s I’ve heard.


Overall, a great car and would make a fun daily driver. Depreciation is starting to hit these hard (and rightfully so - quality is def an issue), and these are worth keeping in mind.

However, I was very glad to hop in the e92 and grab a manual shift lever. Its agility is certainly much less than the Guilia, but I felt much more connected to the car, and the engine experience is not remotely as generic as the Guilia.

Keeping the m3. I think the only thing I’ll really consider replacing it with in view of this experience is a 997.2 or 991.