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      04-24-2023, 05:40 AM   #2817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by --Aramis-- View Post
I thought it through

I have re ordered a complete set, i will change this shell, i don't want to take any risk

I'll post picture of the shell with dent

It's a pita because in Europe we have to order in US directly with customs and VAT, It's a tax hold-up...but it's another subject
Well, if in doubt...

I can't really see what you're talking about in the picture. I suppose the black "circle" was drawn by you to show something?

But if we're talking about a quality control deviation in a rod bearing, I think you're right on waiting and making contact with manufacturer.
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      04-24-2023, 05:55 AM   #2818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by --Aramis-- View Post
after softening it i can see a little starting of copper
Softening? What do you mean?

Sanding, perhaps (ponçage)?
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      04-24-2023, 06:25 AM   #2819
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I'll remove the shell this evening and take a picture

Softening with a little round file tool on the edge of the dent

Quote:
Originally Posted by jvictormp View Post

But if we're talking about a quality control deviation in a rod bearing, I think you're right on waiting and making contact with manufacturer.

That's it, it could be happen during transport or storage at facility, i blame nobody, that's no chance
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      04-24-2023, 12:13 PM   #2820
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Quote:
Originally Posted by --Aramis-- View Post
unfortunately I forgot to take a picture, I'm sorry

it was really minimal

a shell also had glue on it, i removed it with alcohol

edit :

I made a photo montage of what it was



after softening it i can see a little starting of copper

i don't know if it's possible to buy just two BE shells, on up and one bottom, if it's possible i'll will change this one

BE ARP bolt are reusable? i could remove the shell and take picture

I hesitate to replace it but it needs to buy a new complete shells kit

Green-Eggs have you some advice?
Is this an actual picture, or a simulated picture? It's confusing because earlier, I thought I read that there isn't an actual picture before it was installed.

I would never take a file to a rod bearing. That could cause all kinds of problems.

Regardless, if you can feel it with your finger, then I wouldn't install it. That's the BE criteria for rejecting shells as well. Some shells get past inspection and not noticed. BE will replace it at their expense. All they need are the numbers written on the trays to send matching shells of the same thickness.
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      04-24-2023, 01:28 PM   #2821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green-Eggs View Post
Is this an actual picture, or a simulated picture? It's confusing because earlier, I thought I read that there isn't an actual picture before it was installed.

I would never take a file to a rod bearing. That could cause all kinds of problems.

Regardless, if you can feel it with your finger, then I wouldn't install it. That's the BE criteria for rejecting shells as well. Some shells get past inspection and not noticed. BE will replace it at their expense. All they need are the numbers written on the trays to send matching shells of the same thickness.
thanks for answering me,

The above picture was simulated

That's clear, i have removed the shell and take some pictures

I can clearly feel it with my finger, before i apply a file you can feel a tip and a trough, after the file just a trough

This is the pictures after, i don't take same before

















I have ordered another set from Truner MS, can i take one upper and one lower shells from this set for installing them or do you advise me to wait for the replacement shell?

I would like not to wait too long to close the engine Tell me how could we do it?

If you need HD pictures by email tell me if necessary
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      04-24-2023, 05:52 PM   #2822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by --Aramis-- View Post
thanks for answering me,

The above picture was simulated

That's clear, i have removed the shell and take some pictures

I can clearly feel it with my finger, before i apply a file you can feel a tip and a trough, after the file just a trough

This is the pictures after, i don't take same before

















I have ordered another set from Truner MS, can i take one upper and one lower shells from this set for installing them or do you advise me to wait for the replacement shell?

I would like not to wait too long to close the engine Tell me how could we do it?

If you need HD pictures by email tell me if necessary
The pictures are fine. I definitely wouldn't run that shell with this file marks, nick, etc. The foam trays have hand-written numbers on the side. That's the number I would need to know. It looks like an 025 shell, so you're looking for the numbers on the "Upper/TOP" foam tray. While you're at it, give the number written on the "LOWER" foam tray too. If I know that number, then I can tell you if BE has that specific size or not.
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      04-25-2023, 12:44 AM   #2823
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Here are the numbers,

On top blue 080

Bottom red 020






I have a question about the BE ARP bolts BE-CRB50-S65

they are reusable, but how many times?

Are there a number of disassembly/reassembly/clamping after which it is recommended to change them? or they are lifetime use?
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      04-25-2023, 01:11 AM   #2824
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Quote:
Originally Posted by --Aramis-- View Post
Here are the numbers,

I have a question about the BE ARP bolts BE-CRB50-S65

they are reusable, but how many times?

Are there a number of disassembly/reassembly/clamping after which it is recommended to change them? or they are lifetime use?
Yes they are reusable as long as they don't stretch permanently more than .001". That means you need to measure them before using first time.

Many people don't do that, but they reuse them anyway. You won't see many cases of that in an S65 engine community, but there are many chevy LS engine and Honda engine owners who do.

I have a friend that lost a Honda k24 engine due to an ARP 2000 bolt (that's the same spec of the BE ARP bolt) breaking down. And he was not the first owner of that bolt, so he doesn't know how many times it was torqued, or what it's been through.

Anyway, if you don't overtorque the bolts I assume you will be fine in reusing them forever. Hope you don't need to ever open that engine sump again though.

I did reuse my bolts three times and no problems with that. And the last time I changed my bearings, I put in brand new bolts (together with be bearings) because I really believe that was the last time I opened up that engine.
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      04-25-2023, 02:07 AM   #2825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvictormp View Post

Anyway, if you don't overtorque the bolts I assume you will be fine in reusing them forever. Hope you don't need to ever open that engine sump again though.

I did reuse my bolts three times and no problems with that. And the last time I changed my bearings, I put in brand new bolts (together with be bearings) because I really believe that was the last time I opened up that engine.
I hope too

I torque them like BE said 50ft.lbs (68Nm) with (a good) calibrated troque wrench
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      05-01-2023, 03:46 PM   #2826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamFODI View Post
Can we talk about this as well? I have questions, and not the rhetorical kind.

How does the harder material pose a greater threat to the crank? Has this actually been seen to happen? And/or what are the possible mechanisms for that to occur?

I get why this is a sticky idea. Harder = more likely to scratch a given thing rather than be scratched by it. But any bearing material will be way, way softer than the crank. That's literally the point of a bearing material. No one is stupid enough to spec a bearing material that's hard enough to damage a hardened steel crank on its own.

Probably safe to say it's also not a matter of these bearings wearing down to the backing sooner, because we now know the opposite is true.

Reduced embeddability, maybe? More crank-scoring debris floating around? If so, how could the un-embedded debris score the crank without first annihilating the bearing, which doesn't show up much if at all in the pics?

I know harder bearing alloys can have less conformability, which could generate hot spots and inconsistent oil films. Is that it? But if that were happening at scale, wouldn't we see a lot more worn bearings, failed engines, or both? And, as the Glyco document repeatedly cited in this thread says, tight clearances actually improve conformability via very slight, highly localized initial wear – which lines up nicely with what we now know we're seeing in pics of these bearings...

I haven't forgotten about this, I've been trying to find where in the various literature I downloaded I read about it, not found it yet and I've run out of time now.
It's going to take a while to find I think!

Last edited by Assimilator1; 05-06-2023 at 09:46 AM..
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      05-02-2023, 07:09 AM   #2827
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Replacement shells arrived today

big thanks Green-Eggs

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      05-05-2023, 12:39 AM   #2828
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Hi all. Longtime Lurker. Posted since I just did my rod bearings.
Original owner 2011 E90 MT. 95000 miles. Oil changes usually every 7-8000 miles. Car has been relatively trouble free. I have done the throttle actuators and an ignition coil in the last year but otherwise the car hasn't given me any real headaches up until then. I always make sure it's warmed up before going over 3k rpm. I bought the replacement kit from lang racing and had my local shop do the work. Mechanic said they didn't look tooo bad but I'd like to hear from the pros, since this shop doesn't do a lot of these. Got the car back and alignment is off so they need to address that
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      05-05-2023, 12:48 AM   #2829
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Also I SWEAR there is now a mild low frequency vibration sometimes at idle. I've had this car for 12 years so my butt dino is pretty tuned in with it. I did do the motor mounts as well. Could it be anything else? no CELs or weird idling. (I have had the fuel breather valve replaced within the last year as well).
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      05-05-2023, 11:46 AM   #2830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hystikal View Post
Also I SWEAR there is now a mild low frequency vibration sometimes at idle. I've had this car for 12 years so my butt dino is pretty tuned in with it. I did do the motor mounts as well. Could it be anything else? no CELs or weird idling. (I have had the fuel breather valve replaced within the last year as well).
Shells look "normal" imo. Vibrations probably new mounts letting the engine send a tad of its glory through to your a....
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      05-05-2023, 04:54 PM   #2831
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2009 E92 DCT, 126526km
Cylinder 3 top bearing showed most worn
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      05-06-2023, 09:50 AM   #2832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hystikal View Post
Hi all. Longtime Lurker. Posted since I just did my rod bearings.
Original owner 2011 E90 MT. 95000 miles. Oil changes usually every 7-8000 miles. Car has been relatively trouble free. I have done the throttle actuators and an ignition coil in the last year but otherwise the car hasn't given me any real headaches up until then. I always make sure it's warmed up before going over 3k rpm. I bought the replacement kit from lang racing and had my local shop do the work. Mechanic said they didn't look tooo bad but I'd like to hear from the pros, since this shop doesn't do a lot of these. Got the car back and alignment is off so they need to address that
Compared to the others here, shells look about normal for the later tin/alu ones, and yea not too bad .

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterClutch888 View Post
2009 E92 DCT, 126526km
Cylinder 3 top bearing showed most worn
The colour of your shell photos is really off here, and makes it hard to see how bad they actually are. Can you take any more photos to correct that?
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      05-25-2023, 06:09 PM   #2833
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Broken crankshaft S65 tear down..
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      05-26-2023, 06:12 PM   #2834
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Skip to ~30:40 to see the big end caps being removed.
Is it just me? Or do those rod bearings look like the OEM tin/alu/copper ones? [edit] Yes, I can see the numbers 702 at 31:33 on the top left bearing.
Btw, he said it's done 145k miles, rod bearings (VPC) done at 82k.

I'm amazed the crank broke in 1/2! Must've been going at full throttle at high revs to do that??

Last edited by Assimilator1; 05-26-2023 at 06:41 PM..
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      05-26-2023, 06:46 PM   #2835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Assimilator1 View Post
Skip to ~30:40 to see the big end caps being removed.
Is it just me? Or do those rod bearings look like the OEM tin/alu/copper ones? [edit] Yes, I can see the numbers 702 at 31:33 on the top left bearing.
Btw, he said it's done 145k miles, rod bearings (VPC) done at 82k.

I'm amazed the crank broke in 1/2! Must've been going at full throttle at high revs to do that??
I'm guessing with the European pronunciation, "VPC" is actually "WPC" -- which would explain the 702/703 shells.
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      05-26-2023, 06:56 PM   #2836
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Ah yea, good point.

Btw, I've just re-realised how many more tin/alu/copper bearing engines mains have failed vs the lead/copper ones! (in our 'blown engines' thread anyway).
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      05-27-2023, 05:30 AM   #2837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Assimilator1 View Post
Ah yea, good point.

Btw, I've just re-realised how many more tin/alu/copper bearing engines mains have failed vs the lead/copper ones! (in our 'blown engines' thread anyway).
Are you counting vehicles with aftermarket rod bearings and failed mains, too?
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      05-27-2023, 09:10 PM   #2838
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Yes, within that thread, and that section, I'm just counting failed mains, it's blind to RB type.

Last edited by Assimilator1; 05-29-2023 at 08:08 AM..
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