New owner.. But not very happy?

[neilum]

You said it yourself you've been driving appliances all your lile. In case you weren't aware the cars you listed generally have overboosted steering, touchy brakes and overboosted throttle tip in. These characteristics are inherent to most normal cars as thats what the masses want. Hell even the radio controls in those cars will have a non linear sound to it. The first 6 clicks will have 75% of the volume.

However, good sports cars including E90M is an extremely linear car, all around. Especially the engine where you have to push the gas pedal further to get more out of it and apply more throttle. The power won't be in the first 25% of pedal travel.

I've owned S2000's, tuned F80 M3's, full bolt on B8 S4's, Full bolt on N54 335's and I will honestly say the E90 does not lack torque nearly as much as people let on. Very rarely while going uphill at 1800 RPM it will feel lacking, but first of all you're in the wrong gear, and secondly push the pedal further down it will go just fine. I really dont get this complaint.

First of all factually, it doesn't lack torque because there is a transmission attached to the engine multiplying the torque. In fact do some math on wheel torque and the opposite is true, due to aggressive gearing it actually has a ton of it.

I'll quote this because its exactly what I would say "The E9X M3 does not lack torque at the wheels thanks to its aggressive gearing that is made possible by its high redline, and people should stop comparing torque at the shaft numbers by staring at dyno charts and concluding this or that car has more torque etc, which is pretty much meaningless.

The most detailed plots by member mixja are here:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157633

And the thread which went downhill that started this kind of discussion:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...ght=335+driver"


So can we stop with this nonsense please.

Also, if your car is riding rough, change your tires. They have a huge impact on how rough or soft the car handles bumps and imperfections in the road.

Also, the S65 is sensitive to worn plugs, change them.

[Vuu]

Originally Posted by neilum

You said it yourself you've been driving appliances all your lile. In case you weren't aware the cars you listed generally have overboosted steering, touchy brakes and overboosted throttle tip in. These characteristics are inherent to most normal cars as thats what the masses want. Hell even the radio controls in those cars will have a non linear sound to it. The first 6 clicks will have 75% of the volume.

However, good sports cars including E90M is an extremely linear car, all around. Especially the engine where you have to push the gas pedal further to get more out of it and apply more throttle. The power won't be in the first 25% of pedal travel.

I've owned S2000's, tuned F80 M3's, full bolt on B8 S4's, Full bolt on N54 335's and I will honestly say the E90 does not lack torque nearly as much as people let on. Very rarely while going uphill at 1800 RPM it will feel lacking, but first of all you're in the wrong gear, and secondly push the pedal further down it will go just fine. I really dont get this complaint.

First of all factually, it doesn't lack torque because there is a transmission attached to the engine multiplying the torque. In fact do some math on wheel torque and the opposite is true, due to aggressive gearing it actually has a ton of it.

I'll quote this because its exactly what I would say "The E9X M3 does not lack torque at the wheels thanks to its aggressive gearing that is made possible by its high redline, and people should stop comparing torque at the shaft numbers by staring at dyno charts and concluding this or that car has more torque etc, which is pretty much meaningless.

The most detailed plots by member mixja are here:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157633

And the thread which went downhill that started this kind of discussion:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...ght=335+driver"


So can we stop with this nonsense please.

Also, if your car is riding rough, change your tires. They have a huge impact on how rough or soft the car handles bumps and imperfections in the road.

Also, the S65 is sensitive to worn plugs, change them.

While I agree with what you said, an FBO S4 + Tune is a torque monster.

OP,

I had a B8 S4 with almost everything you can possibly do to it before buying my E92 M3 last weekend.

Thing's I can tell you:

-The ride quality isn't much better in the S4.
-Speakers in the S4 are trash and bass is inexistent.

The S4 was a beautiful car with the best interior technology. It was very fast and practical, especially in the snow. But, even pushing well over 400+ HP/TQ, the car was extremely boring to drive. Maybe it's because I had a DSG? Regardless, even on a canyon cruise, my car was amazing in a straight line but it felt like shit on turns.

I've ridden on coilovers or bags for all of my cars and I can definitely say that the M3's ride isn't harsh at all. Actually, when I bought the car, I immediately drove 13 hours home from Chicago and the only complaint I had was my dead ass from sitting for so long. I have lumbar issues from football and the military too.

I say you give it more of a chance before thinking about replacing it.

[MrGatsby]

It's simply a matter of learning how to drive your car.

While most modern cars are designed to get in, put it in drive, play some music and get along to your destination with comfort and ease, the E92 is anything but.

It's engineered as a proper sports car (just like you wanted). And with that comes a learning curve. Learn the torque curve, the steering feel, the pedal travel. Drive your car until you understand how it responds. If you are in the proper gear, with the proper settings, its an absolute blast whether carving the twisty's or on your morning commute.

The E92 in many ways is a race car for the streets and not vice-versa.

Just like a new relationship, you have to learn what makes her tick. If you date just an average girl you may get away with leaving your dirty laundry on the floor, playing video games on a Friday night, and expecting dinner on the table. But if you date a perfect 10, you will have to clean up after yourself, take her to proper dinners on your dime, and put in the effort or she will get bored.

Put in the effort, learn what makes your car tick, and I am certain you will enjoy it.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by Immy68

1. Ride quality. It's a bit harsh on the 19s. Comfort is the best setting in all scenarios.

2. Low torque. Use the right gear! You can't be in 4th gear cruising and think all I have to do is floor it. You can use the kickdown feature if you have DCT. I also heard you can floor it and downshift twice and it'll go into the lowest gear possible (I drive manual so this is based on my memory though). Get a GTS DCT tune.

3. Speakers. Play around with settings but I've never thought this was an amazing stereo in the first place. If anything, get a loud ass exhaust haha

See above.

[Kamen]

Yeah, never did get the complaints about the lack of torque. I wonder, if the majority of the guys have never driven anything but top fuel dragsters prior to the M3. There is noticeable difference with cars with high torque, but not to the point of complaining about it. It's an engine with different character. Some will go the extent to call it a pain to drive in the city. Honestly, WTF? Shift down, before you mash the gas pedal.

[GotV8?]

imo, M3 is a very capable and fun car, if you are driving in city limits, torque is unnecessary, however, you can rev it up!!! when driving on open roads!!! Definitely requires adjustment to driving dynamics compare to your previous cars on your list of ownership. OP, I suggest you either get a tune and give it some time, or just sell it and go to a Lexus if you are looking for luxury. Goodluck.

[Siajoon]

Originally Posted by MrGatsby

It's simply a matter of learning how to drive your car.

While most modern cars are designed to get in, put it in drive, play some music and get along to your destination with comfort and ease, the E92 is anything but.

It's engineered as a proper sports car (just like you wanted). And with that comes a learning curve. Learn the torque curve, the steering feel, the pedal travel. Drive your car until you understand how it responds. If you are in the proper gear, with the proper settings, its an absolute blast whether carving the twisty's or on your morning commute.

The E92 in many ways is a race car for the streets and not vice-versa.

Just like a new relationship, you have to learn what makes her tick. If you date just an average girl you may get away with leaving your dirty laundry on the floor, playing video games on a Friday night, and expecting dinner on the table. But if you date a perfect 10, you will have to clean up after yourself, take her to proper dinners on your dime, and put in the effort or she will get bored.

Put in the effort, learn what makes your car tick, and I am certain you will enjoy it.

Damn son, well sad... bravo bravo!!!

[Tewie]

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by Kamen

Yeah, never did get the complaints about the lack of torque. I wonder, if the majority of the guys have never driven anything but top fuel dragsters prior to the M3. There is noticeable difference with cars with high torque, but not to the point of complaining about it. It's an engine with different character. Some will go the extent to call it a pain to drive in the city. Honestly, WTF? Shift down, before you mash the gas pedal.

These guys probably wouldn't enjoy driving an F430 They seem like Vette connoisseurs.

[Powashiftin]

Get a proper exhaust system and report back. There is No song better than the S65 with a good exhaust.

[Kamen]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

These guys probably wouldn't enjoy driving an F430 They seem like Vette connoisseurs.

Or GT3 RS. I heard, that those are some pretty weak engines, too.I mean, the GT3 RS has only about 10% more torque than the M3

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by Kamen

Or GT3 RS. I heard, that those are some pretty weak engines, too.I mean, the GT3 RS has only about 10% more torque than the M3

Hahaha thank god those are a bit lighter.

[BimmerMan33]

Originally Posted by Immy68

I think I figured why I think the car feels so rough. It is the DCT!!!

This is the first time driving a DCT and going back and forth from my econbox it feels very similar in ride quality, however when I drive the m3 and everytime it shifts around the 1st and 2nd gear there is some jerkiness to it.

Also the 19 inch wheels also seem to be a major factor.

Is there anything I can do to "master" the dct to make it more smoother? Drivelogic in setting 2?

E9x M3 feels smooth & refined when driven relatively aggressively! Transmission shifts smother when shifting at higher RPMs. This M3 is not fun at all to drive in city traffic. Period.
M3 is designed with motorsports in mind, driving on open roads/track & upshifting at/above 4000 RPM is when it feels nice.
Regular series BMWs are clearly more fun to drive in the city, but seem like running out of breath on the track, just designed that way. Sports car vs commuter car!

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by BimmerMan33

This M3 is not fun at all to drive in city traffic. Period.
Regular series BMWs are clearly more fun to drive in the city,

Totally not agree. Had 325M/335M, why would they be more fun in the city bro? No Sir. My M3 is still after 5 years a thrill to run down to after work just to get back home during my 15 min commute - No kidding!

[shimmy23]

We're all repeating the same opinion to an extent here.

OP, you good now?😀

[tooloud10]

Regarding the GT3RS, it has almost 20% more torque and weighs 15% less, which makes a big difference. It does reward being driven like the M3 (like you stole it), but that's a much more hardcore car than the M3.

I actually don't think the E9x slots into a specific category very easily. I think it's too heavy to be a great track car, but it needs to be driven too hard to be a great city car.

Honestly though, it seems to excel at being a hard-edged GT car for the highway, and it sounds great (especially in convertible form), so that's exactly how I enjoy mine the most--as a fancy V8 3-series family cruiser on windy highways...and I'm perfectly OK with that. My car isn't ever going to see a track--nor will the vast majority of M3s--but I still find ways to enjoy it.

[Kamen]

Not to be nitpicking, but 295 vs 339 lb-ft is precisely 13%, which in my book is rather 10 than 20.
Anyways, I guess, it's a personal preference, but I never found the M3 to be slow or difficult or drive in the city. Maybe your cities are more racy than mine. If there is something, that makes the M3 not a good city driver, that woould much rather be the clunky transmissions and fairly stiff ride

[tooloud10]

Originally Posted by Kamen

Not to be nitpicking, but 295 vs 339 lb-ft is precisely 13%, which in my book is rather 10 than 20.

Rounding to the nearest tenth, the difference between 295 and 339 is 15%, but the latest GT3RS has 346 lb-ft, so the actual difference in torque is 17.3%. I guess it depends which one everyone is thinking of.

Anyways, I guess, it's a personal preference, but I never found the M3 to be slow or difficult or drive in the city.

I don't actually think it's slow or difficult to drive in the city, I just find it arguably worse to drive in a city compared to a standard 335i due to how the S65 makes its power. If most of my driving was urban, I would probably regret buying this car over a 335is.

Maybe your cities are more racy than mine. If there is something, that makes the M3 not a good city driver, that woould much rather be the clunky transmissions and fairly stiff ride

I'm guessing you have the manual (which I did find a little clunky), but the best part of the DCT is being able to change the shift feel from 'imperceptible' to 'jolting' at the touch of a button.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by tooloud10

but it needs to be driven too hard to be a great city car.

Precisely my issue with it. It's only "fun" when on the boil and that's simply not approachable, easily, in the city, especially in the super-long-ratio'd 6MT.

The S65, in stock format, really needs to be well above 5k rpm for any meaningful acceleration. From 4-5k it's particularly weak (torque output dips here).

In San Diego, with 91 octane fuel, in warm weather, it's pretty low on power below 6k rpm. With a tune/pipes/93 octane I would FULLY expect it to be an entirely different animal, though. I really think the S65 is significantly choked/held back in stock form/91 octane.

[Solo_M_Tech]

I don't understand this thread.

No car, literally, will meet everyone's expectations.

These cars are acceptable for daily use if you dont mind the fuel consumption and a sporty ride.
Cruising and listening to music was clearly a forethought at ///M when they engineered this car. Yeah they cranked up the luxury a bit when compared to the E46, but it's still a sports car more so than a luxury car. They tried to hit the middle ground all while ensuring the car could hold it's own on the track.

I've driven a lot of different sports cars around the track. Its incredibly hard to find any sports car that is as capable as the E9x m3 is on track, and you can still take it too the store to pick up chips and a drink without creating a lot of drama. It's the best all around sports car you can buy. Even more rounded is the E90.

OP you REALLY should have test driven the car more before buying. Tried out the radio, drove around some stop and go traffic. This is a simple.

[spazzyfry123]

LOL @ the no torque comments. It's no Camaro, but I could easily make a pass in 6th gear without downshifting. Same goes for uphill.

People are acting like it's a Geo Metro.

[JackieChiles]

Originally Posted by Kamen

Or GT3 RS. I heard, that those are some pretty weak engines, too.I mean, the GT3 RS has only about 10% more torque than the M3

It’s also 400+ lbs lighter

I have an e92 and have extensive experience on the street and track in a 991.1 gt3 rs.

They really aren’t similar, and I love the s65