Pricing ?

[L1FHR]

Here's for comparison with my BMW (Bought it at a dealership).

2013 E92 ZCP w/ 13K miles I paid $45K (just the car w/out Extended warranty and etc.)
Min condition, the car is spotless. The car has been a garage queen too, SPG color.

For everything including tax, extended warranty (5/65K) i paid +- $55K

I has ZCP Package, 19' ZCP wheels, CF roof, Backup Sensor, Navigation, Premium Sound, DCT, EDC, Manual Sport Seats (for less weight), Lighting Package, comfort access.
Everything on the car is OEM and Stock.

I just put in a new PSS4S tire $1.5K (totally recommended the ride and the grip made such a difference).

[MachinesWithSouls]

I just did a shoot with a similar spec car. If you're looking to get a bit more for the car, try a professional photo shoot. This one is for sale as well, 08, stick, no nav, sunroof. Asking over 30k I believe.

[amrazM]

Absolutely none of those photos will help sell a car, any car.

[fatalelement]

Originally Posted by amrazM

Absolutely none of those photos will help sell a car, any car.

I unfortunately tend to agree. I am a photographer and while that is a great set of car photos, the first thing I'd think seeing that in a listing is "oh Christ, this is an enthusiast who thinks enthusiast pricing is real and will think I should pay for his exhaust and subframe bushings and also will want 10k more than the car is worth"

the exception would be if you are ONLY looking to sell to enthusiasts, like if you're selling an Elekta wagon or something, then go for it.

as an example, I think 30k for the car in those photos is absolutely insane, but that's kinda what I'm getting at. 08, stick, no nav, sunroof? Unless it's under 20k miles you'd have to be a crazy person to pay over 30k for that, and even then, I still think that's nuts. The only person who will even look at that listing for more than about 30 seconds is going to be an M3 enthusiast.

[tooloud10]

I have to somewhat disagree that well done and/or professional pictures won't help sell a car, if only because of how many ridiculously bad ads I see these days. I don't know if it's that young people don't know how to properly advertise an item for sale or what, but I routinely see ads with one grainy picture taken at a 45deg angle, or ads that leave off vital info (like year and mileage) on a vehicle they're trying to sell.

So logically, if I'm comfortable believing that bad pictures can actually hurt one's chances of selling a car, it seems obvious that higher quality or professional pics that paint a vehicle in a better light will actually help sell a car.

Here's a good example of what I'm talking about--the pictures are horrible, the year is obviously listed wrong, there are no details, etc. How do people expect to sell vehicles like this?

https://dubuque.craigslist.org/cto/d...740807554.html

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by tooloud10

I have to somewhat disagree that well done and/or professional pictures won't help sell a car, if only because of how many ridiculously bad ads I see these days. I don't know if it's that young people don't know how to properly advertise an item for sale or what, but I routinely see ads with one grainy picture taken at a 45deg angle, or ads that leave off vital info (like year and mileage) on a vehicle they're trying to sell.

So logically, if I'm comfortable believing that bad pictures can actually hurt one's chances of selling a car, it seems obvious that higher quality or professional pics that paint a vehicle in a better light will actually help sell a car.

Here's a good example of what I'm talking about--the pictures are horrible, the year is obviously listed wrong, there are no details, etc. How do people expect to sell vehicles like this?

https://dubuque.craigslist.org/cto/d...740807554.html

I think the answer is somewhere in between. What you described is the unfortunate world of Craigslist car ads. I don't know if people are dumb or just lazy but it's incredible to see how bad most posts are. On the other hand, I don't think professional photos add any value either. Just take good quality pics from every angle and include a detailed description, I don't see how so many people have such a hard time grasping this concept.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by FASTTOYS

Car doesn’t even have comfort access, but she is super clean. I prefer not having NAV as my phone is better and older Navs date a car imo. So far thanks for all your inputs I truly appreciate it. Cars original MSRP was 69k

There's a product you can buy for around $300 that adds Apple CarPlay and Android Auto to the CIC system. That alone is worth having iDrive for as then you can use your phones nav without having to look down at your phone. I've been noodling about installing one in my own car but am waiting to see if there is a wireless solution coming out.

[FASTTOYS]

Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars

I just did a shoot with a similar spec car. If you're looking to get a bit more for the car, try a professional photo shoot. This one is for sale as well, 08, stick, no nav, sunroof. Asking over 30k I believe.

Nice Pictures

[MachinesWithSouls]

Sooo anyone here that says professional photos don't work to help sell a car are incorrect.

The point of the photos is to grab your attention, and help differentiate it from the craigslist clutter, not to sell the car itself. The same Logic goes behind the photography of a million dollar home, or high-end Ferrari's. Would this work for a 10k civic? No.

Someone else said the only people who will look are M3 enthusiasts. That might be correct, but being an enthusiast and being an owner are 2 different things - this can help get that persons attention if they are in the market.

Remember, at the end of the day, purchasing a car is like purchasing a pair of clothes. What you choose says a lot about you to the outside world, right or wrong. You have to make it as easy as possible for the potential buyer to see themselves in that car, living that lifestyle. Why do you think BMW spends millions on marketing? Why not just list the cars on Craigslist and hope for the best? Same goes for the used market.

Machineswithsouls.com for other examples of my work to prove I'm legit.

[Transfer]

wowee photos don't tell me what kind of condition the car is in. Photos like those above look nice but they're fake as far as I'm concerned as a buyer. Show me real photos and make sure the car or part you are focusing on fills/fits the frame.

[fatalelement]

Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars

Sooo anyone here that says professional photos don't work to help sell a car are incorrect.

The point of the photos is to grab your attention, and help differentiate it from the craigslist clutter, not to sell the car itself. The same Logic goes behind the photography of a million dollar home, or high-end Ferrari's. Would this work for a 10k civic? No.

Someone else said the only people who will look are M3 enthusiasts. That might be correct, but being an enthusiast and being an owner are 2 different things - this can help get that persons attention if they are in the market.

Remember, at the end of the day, purchasing a car is like purchasing a pair of clothes. What you choose says a lot about you to the outside world, right or wrong. You have to make it as easy as possible for the potential buyer to see themselves in that car, living that lifestyle. Why do you think BMW spends millions on marketing? Why not just list the cars on Craigslist and hope for the best? Same goes for the used market.

Machineswithsouls.com for other examples of my work to prove I'm legit.

Help sell a car as in get more attention to a particular listing, maybe, but you originally said it can increase the sale price by a lot. I don't necessarily buy that, unless you've had a lot of clients who cannot sell a car, you do a shoot, and they get an offer over asking.

You're certainly a talented photographer, and I say that photographer to photographer - I really like your work. And I'm not attempting to discount it.

There's a fundamental difference between what you've identified as other examples:

A house - a house is sold as a unique item that there is only one of. There is only one of any non-prefab house on planet earth. You are showcasing its looks and appearance because no one has ever seen it before. An M3 has been made tens of thousands of times. They're all the same (unless you're selling a heavily cosmetically modified car). I'm not interested in how good the car looks in a vacuum. As another poster has noted above, I'm interested in the particular cosmetic differences between this car and all other M3s. For that, I prefer clinical, well lit photos with no editing.

A Ferrari - I've seen many listings for supercars, and unless they are a very rare or classic car, I don't see a lot of glamour photography in the sales listings. There's certainly professional photography, but it's well-lit and designed to show how well taken care of the car is, not how good it looks, because someone buying it knows that.

Marketing - again, this ties into the house issue. BMW is spending money on marketing to sell you the concept of an M3. A used car listing is selling you a very specific M3. So I don't think the argument holds much water because the goals of BMW and a private seller are fundamentally different. A person selling a used YSL coat online and YSL selling the line of coats are completely divorced goals and completely divorced "marketing." You say it's like buying clothes, but you're missing that when you buy clothes from a brand-name store and when you buy those used on craigslist you have entirely different motivations and entirely different considerations. I've shopped at YSL, to reuse the example, and I've never gone in there really trying to get a good deal and make sure the seller isn't trying to cheat me and the condition of the product is good. I've also bought stuff used, and the latter is exactly what I'm trying to do.

What's more likely to happen is, I see incredibly good photos you've taken of how amazing an M3 looks, and I think "I should buy an M3!" They key word here is "an," not "this."

If I saw two identical M3s on Craigslist, one with standard, meticulous dealer photos for 20k and one with an amazing, professional quality photoshoot more focusing on the overall emotion and scene than the actual condition of the car for 24k, I'm going to pay 20k because it's clear the owner has delusions about the price.

If I was not selling my car, I'd be happy to pay for photos like this of my car. You're very talented, which you clearly don't need me to tell you, but since you're obviously a very talented photographer and I assume these shoots are more than a few hundred dollars, I'd need to see some sort of proof that was going to be paid for by the sale of the car to believe this is a guaranteed ROI.

In any case, it's clear I'm probably not the target for this anyway. I'm a lawyer by day whose job is to smell people trying to screw clients, and this isn't my first sports car so in my experience, when I see an ad with a bunch of photos like this and no close ups of the edges of the doors, hood, wheel wells, etc. I immediately get worried that they have named their car, it has its own Instagram, and are not showing me the "character" (rock chips, etc.). My best purchasing experience has always been from people who maintained the car very well but see it as a commodity for them to dispose of for its market value, rather than an extension of themselves, because the latter aren't going to let it go for a reasonable price and are going to think I should pay a single dime for the lip they left on the car or their sound system upgrade.

I still maintain over $30K USD for a non-zcp, non-carbon roofed '08 E92 with no nav is a delusional target unless I'm truly missing something.

[MachinesWithSouls]

Originally Posted by fatalelement

Help sell a car as in get more attention to a particular listing, maybe, but you originally said it can increase the sale price by a lot. I don't necessarily buy that, unless you've had a lot of clients who cannot sell a car, you do a shoot, and they get an offer over asking.

You're certainly a talented photographer, and I say that photographer to photographer - I really like your work. And I'm not attempting to discount it.

There's a fundamental difference between what you've identified as other examples:

A house - a house is sold as a unique item that there is only one of. There is only one of any non-prefab house on planet earth. You are showcasing its looks and appearance because no one has ever seen it before. An M3 has been made tens of thousands of times. They're all the same (unless you're selling a heavily cosmetically modified car). I'm not interested in how good the car looks in a vacuum. As another poster has noted above, I'm interested in the particular cosmetic differences between this car and all other M3s. For that, I prefer clinical, well lit photos with no editing.

A Ferrari - I've seen many listings for supercars, and unless they are a very rare or classic car, I don't see a lot of glamour photography in the sales listings. There's certainly professional photography, but it's well-lit and designed to show how well taken care of the car is, not how good it looks, because someone buying it knows that.

Marketing - again, this ties into the house issue. BMW is spending money on marketing to sell you the concept of an M3. A used car listing is selling you a very specific M3. So I don't think the argument holds much water because the goals of BMW and a private seller are fundamentally different. A person selling a used YSL coat online and YSL selling the line of coats are completely divorced goals and completely divorced "marketing." You say it's like buying clothes, but you're missing that when you buy clothes from a brand-name store and when you buy those used on craigslist you have entirely different motivations and entirely different considerations. I've shopped at YSL, to reuse the example, and I've never gone in there really trying to get a good deal and make sure the seller isn't trying to cheat me and the condition of the product is good. I've also bought stuff used, and the latter is exactly what I'm trying to do.

If I saw two identical M3s on Craigslist, one with standard, meticulous dealer photos for 20k and one with an amazing, professional quality photoshoot more focusing on the overall emotion and scene than the actual condition of the car for 24k, I'm going to pay 20k because it's clear the owner has delusions about the price.

If I was not selling my car, I'd be happy to pay for photos like this of my car. You're very talented, which you clearly don't need me to tell you, but since you're obviously a very talented photographer and I assume these shoots are more than a few hundred dollars, I'd need to see some sort of proof that was going to be paid for by the sale of the car to believe this is a guaranteed ROI.

I still maintain over $30K USD for a non-zcp, non-carbon roofed '08 E92 with no nav is a delusional target unless I'm truly missing something.

I won't go point by point, but you're being overly general here.

BMW sells you the concept of an M3, so you can buy...an M3. They are targeting you just like a used car for sale would be. Both want your money in exchange for a car. A buyer wants an M3 for the same reasons, weather it be new or used, and vanity has a lot to do with that.

All these shoots do is make the car stand out. Say you're scrolling on cars.com. 30 M3s for sale at any given moment. Suddenly you come across one of these shots as a main image. Now, even if it's not the M3 you want, will you not at least pause and take notice, and if it IS a spec you're after, it'll definitely get a look. At that point, it's on the posting to sell the car, and not the images.

A house may be one off, but again, so is an M3. A buyer has a vision of the car THEY want. 1 of 1. A combination of color, spec and options. 30 M3s for sale, but only 5 are ones you'd really consider. Photos help you be one of those 5. Hell, you can even extend it to online dating. You're marketing yourself. One of one. Don't photos help sell you?

Finally, think of it this way. The option of selling your car is to get the most for it, yes? So the more bids you get for the car, the more money you'll make. You get more bids by drawing more attention. It's that simple. Not every car I shoot for sale is an M3. Some are much more rare.

And as for this particular M3, it's worth whatever someone is willing to pay. Mine has a sunroof too, because I wanted it instead of the carbon. It's not what the market says, but what the individual wants and is willing to pay.

[fatalelement]

Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars

I won't go point by point, but you're being overly general here.

BMW sells you the concept of an M3, so you can buy...an M3. They are targeting you just like a used car for sale would be. Both want your money in exchange for a car. A buyer wants an M3 for the same reasons, weather it be new or used, and vanity has a lot to do with that.

All these shoots do is make the car stand out. Say you're scrolling on cars.com. 30 M3s for sale at any given moment. Suddenly you come across one of these shots as a main image. Now, even if it's not the M3 you want, will you not at least pause and take notice, and if it IS a spec you're after, it'll definitely get a look. At that point, it's on the posting to sell the car, and not the images.

I think you're being overly general in turn, because I really don't think the new (from BMW's perspective, not from a dealership) and used market are in any way comparable. BMW's marketing team really doesn't have the same goal as a used car seller, and I think reducing it to "goods for money" is insanely reductive.

Clearly we may think of cars differently, but even down to the most granular of options foregoing a one-off individual paint color, M3s are only 1 of 1 on a very very minute level which is only shown by the kind of photos I'm talking about. From 50 feet back, they are surely not if they have no chips, no dents, and are stock.

That being said, I for sure agree with your last paragraph in the quote above. I agree that it's on the listing itself to sell the car. But I'd pay easily 4 figures for a good car photoshoot like yours, so when thinking of that to sell a car worth between 20-30k, it seems like a hard value proposition to me. And as a buyer, I have a keen eye to sellers attempting to recoup their own marketing in the price. If I didn't see any of that being done, and there was maybe only a 1K price differential, I'd be more drawn to a listing featuring your photos in addition to meticulous photos of the condition of the car. I think the other posters were simply disputing the idea that these were replacements for a really thorough listing with careful documentation of all surfaces of the car.

I certainly never intended to dispute the idea that it draws the eye, since it undoubtedly does.

In any case, what I think we can both agree on is that your photography is quite good and clearly it's worth it to the buyers of your services, whatever their motivation.

[amrazM]

Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars

Sooo anyone here that says professional photos don't work to help sell a car are incorrect.

The point of the photos is to grab your attention, and help differentiate it from the craigslist clutter, not to sell the car itself. The same Logic goes behind the photography of a million dollar home, or high-end Ferrari's. Would this work for a 10k civic? No.

Someone else said the only people who will look are M3 enthusiasts. That might be correct, but being an enthusiast and being an owner are 2 different things - this can help get that persons attention if they are in the market.

Remember, at the end of the day, purchasing a car is like purchasing a pair of clothes. What you choose says a lot about you to the outside world, right or wrong. You have to make it as easy as possible for the potential buyer to see themselves in that car, living that lifestyle. Why do you think BMW spends millions on marketing? Why not just list the cars on Craigslist and hope for the best? Same goes for the used market.

Machineswithsouls.com for other examples of my work to prove I'm legit.

Promoting your own page? Sick

Anyways, Eag sells our cars at a premium without any city skyline views. If you’re trying to sell cars you want the photo to be about the car not the choice of scenery and your Lightroom skills meanwhile the photo was taken 30’ away from the car.

[MachinesWithSouls]

Originally Posted by amrazM

Promoting your own page? Sick

Anyways, Eag sells our cars at a premium without any city skyline views. If you’re trying to sell cars you want the photo to be about the car not the choice of scenery and your Lightroom skills meanwhile the photo was taken 30’ away from the car.

Clearly some are for the clients' personal use. I put up 3 out of a set of 30.

As for my own work, I don't think I'll be finding any potential takers on here, just giving the OP another option.

As for EAG, they don't have skyline views because they have the resources of a dealership. If you're selling one car, a poster shot dan make the difference.

[amrazM]

Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars

Clearly some are for the clients' personal use. I put up 3 out of a set of 30.

As for my own work, I don't think I'll be finding any potential takers on here, just giving the OP another option.

As for EAG, they don't have skyline views because they have the resources of a dealership. If you're selling one car, a poster shot dan make the difference.

You buy cars based on one single beauty shot? What are you selling the car or the location rights?

Pretty photos don’t sell cars, detailed photos do.

[Bimmed Out]

Originally Posted by amrazM

Anyways, Eag sells our cars at a premium without any city skyline views.

EAG’s motto is... There’s a sucker born every minute and our sales are proof!

Who needs skyline view photos with so many pigeons getting their wallets out.

[jv92red]

Just to throw in my car for comparative purposes, purchased it private party from a M3post forum member in June of this year:

2010 Alpine White with 20K miles, 6MT, carbon roof, extended palladium leather, comfort access, nav, EDC, 220 wheels, extended warranty through April 2019. Paid 36k

I was in the market only for ZCP, 6MT, carbon roof and budgeted up to ~$37K with finding a car hopefully under ~45K miles on it but when this car came up I asked myself: this thing has everything I want and WAY LESS miles than I was looking for AND a warranty, but doesn't have ZCP. Hmmm... I'll just buy the comp wheels separate. And that's what I've done. Found a beat up set for $800 on the for sale section here a few months back and I'll just need to throw a few hundred into reconditioning them, then figure out if I'll go coils or just springs to get gap and ride dialed in and will basically have everything a 20K mile ZCP with 6MT and Carbon roof would have that sells for a premium on here: high 30's, or in some instances low 40's. (or mid 40's at EAG)

And call me crazy but the more I look at my car and then compare it to a identical Alpine White LCI E92's, I actually now PREFER the pre-LCI tail lights on this car.