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      07-15-2018, 09:00 AM   #1
ThunderMoose
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First Time at LRP

Car: 2003 E46 M3
Track: Lime Rock Park
Best Lap Time: 0:56.85 (NASA transponder) - TT3 Track Record
Brakes: Brembo Fronts / OEM Rears / Pagid RS-29
Suspension: MCS 2-way NR
Tire: Hoosier A7's 245/40/18 square - 3HC
Other Mods: 331 RWHP / 3060 lbs with driver / EPIC Alpha N Tune / Full Aero
Event: NASA TT3 07/14/18


So last month, I had the good fortune to meet Pro Racing Driver Scott Heckert at a Chin Event at VIR. Scott has a tastefully modified street E46 M3 in Laguna Seca Blue. He took a spin in my car and was able to turn some 1:59's to my best of 2:02's. I had mentioned to him that I was planning on doing LRP with NASA on July 13/14 and WGI on July 16/17. Long story short, I hired him to coach me for both of these events.

I didn't really have a time goal for LRP since it was going to be my first time there, but obviously I wanted to break 1:00. The old track record for TT3 was pretty soft, over a minute. ST3 and GTS3 drivers all had much quicker times.

Scott was awesome. After my first session (1:00.33), he reviewed my data and video with me. He had a car and driver notes sheet that we filled out each session to help clarify where I needed to improve. Session 2 was a bust as a Radical-like car lost it in no name straight and black flagged the session. In Session 3, I managed a 59.85. Scott went out in one of the HPDE sessions and did a 57.1!!! And my tires at this point were complete crap. We were able to compare his braking and throttle traces and it became much clearer where I needed to pick up time. I went out once more and though I was driving better overall, I could only string a few 1:00's together. I ended up finishing 3rd out of 7.

I had some nearly new 1HC A7's on hand. You could still see the stickers in the tread. I put those on for Saturday.

So I know what I needed to do. Scott had given me the knowledge. I had really good tires. It's all on me. I come through S/F after my first flier and I see a 57.9! I decide to run another lap as I knew that I was still a bit sloppy. I slightly improve on my second lap with 57.8. I decide to bank the lap and come in. Good thing I did as I get a low tire pressure light when I am driving around the paddock. When I measure tire pressures the left front is down to 12 psig. This tire had given me some issues in March at VIR but had held static pressure fine since then. Phil from PTS removed the tire and found some excess flash that was preventing a tight seal under load. Just as Phill finishes, I hear the first call to grid for TT session. I quickly get the tire mounted and torqued while Scott gets the pressures right. I end up being the lead driver for TT 2nd session so I get a couple of really clean laps and some more 58's but I know there's more. It takes me 3 or 4 more laps to get clear of traffic and I give it everything I have! I tidy up big bend, brake deeper into the left hander, commit a bit sooner to the right hander, trust the grip in the uphill, carry a bit more speed through west bend, and stay off the brake in the downhill to put down the 56.85 for the new TT3 track record!

Scott will join me back at WGI on Monday and hopefully I can make some improvements there.

I really can't say enough about Scott. The data lap certainly helps, but Scott's style and explanations by themselves were so incredibly helpful. There is no way I could have improved as quick as I did without his coaching. If you're an advanced driver and feel that you can't go any faster, PM Scott.

Unfortunately in the chaos of the tire issues, we forgot to reinstall the SIM card so I don't have video of my best lap but I will post the 57.8 lap when I get home.

Not the record, but a couple of my better laps.


Last edited by ThunderMoose; 08-06-2018 at 07:06 PM..
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      07-17-2018, 03:10 PM   #2
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Wow great time!!
You were at the Glen yesterday with SCDA? You have the grey e46 ?
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      07-17-2018, 06:30 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by nicksm3 View Post
Wow great time!!
You were at the Glen yesterday with SCDA? You have the grey e46 ?
I was . I saw your car. Awesome looking car. I was in Grey E46M3. We got lucky with weather. Track was completely dry by 2nd session.
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      07-17-2018, 08:16 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicksm3 View Post
Wow great time!!
You were at the Glen yesterday with SCDA? You have the grey e46 ?
I was . I saw your car. Awesome looking car. I was in Grey E46M3. We got lucky with weather. Track was completely dry by 2nd session.
Thanks man!!!
Ok you were movinggggggg!!!! Absolutely epic! My damn DCT was overheating and going into limp mode every damn session! I purposely went to test the car and to beat my personal best from 2 years ago. Guess not.
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      07-17-2018, 08:25 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicksm3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicksm3 View Post
Wow great time!!
You were at the Glen yesterday with SCDA? You have the grey e46 ?
I was . I saw your car. Awesome looking car. I was in Grey E46M3. We got lucky with weather. Track was completely dry by 2nd session.
Thanks man!!!
Ok you were movinggggggg!!!! Absolutely epic! My damn DCT was overheating and going into limp mode every damn session! I purposely went to test the car and to beat my personal best from 2 years ago. Guess not.
It was freakin hot. And I am from Texas. Hope you get your DCT sorted out. I plan to go back to WGI in September. Should be nice and cool. I made some good progress this time though. I improved on my PR both days.
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      07-18-2018, 06:30 AM   #6
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What was your fastest lap yesterday? I think I timed you doing a 2:00 at one point but the rest of the laps were slower.

Do you know what times the black C6 Z06 was doing? You and he had the fastest car down the front straight visually. I honestly don't know how you car is so fast.

That 911 cup car... is that a driver thing or is his car just not that fast?
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      07-18-2018, 07:04 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by MaX PL View Post
What was your fastest lap yesterday? I think I timed you doing a 2:00 at one point but the rest of the laps were slower.

Do you know what times the black C6 Z06 was doing? You and he had the fastest car down the front straight visually. I honestly don't know how you car is so fast.

That 911 cup car... is that a driver thing or is his car just not that fast?
I got a 2:00.86 on Tuesday. My coach went out in one of the instructor groups and did a 1:59.
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      07-18-2018, 08:32 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaX PL View Post
What was your fastest lap yesterday? I think I timed you doing a 2:00 at one point but the rest of the laps were slower.

Do you know what times the black C6 Z06 was doing? You and he had the fastest car down the front straight visually. I honestly don't know how you car is so fast.

That 911 cup car... is that a driver thing or is his car just not that fast?
One of the things Edwin knows is, it's not how you stand by your car, it's how you race your car.
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      07-18-2018, 08:34 AM   #9
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Congrats on the record. Sounds like the coaching really helped!
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      07-18-2018, 10:43 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post
It was freakin hot. And I am from Texas. Hope you get your DCT sorted out. I plan to go back to WGI in September. Should be nice and cool. I made some good progress this time though. I improved on my PR both days.
I was planning on running my m3 with SCDA, but backed out at the last moment when I saw the weather forecast.
After blowing up my tuned engine of 135i at Pocono in June I am going to be extra careful with my supercharged m3 engine.
I know it really gets hot in Texas but as you can see it gets up to 100C here too with crazy humidity.
Will probably wait until the end of September or even October, because last year at the end of September I was at the Glen and it was 90C both days.
Your car is surprisingly quick, I don't think I have seen any BMW braking 2 min mark at the glen.
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      07-18-2018, 11:23 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Datka View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post
It was freakin hot. And I am from Texas. Hope you get your DCT sorted out. I plan to go back to WGI in September. Should be nice and cool. I made some good progress this time though. I improved on my PR both days.
I was planning on running my m3 with SCDA, but backed out at the last moment when I saw the weather forecast.
After blowing up my tuned engine of 135i at Pocono in June I am going to be extra careful with my supercharged m3 engine.
I know it really gets hot in Texas but as you can see it gets up to 100C here too with crazy humidity.
Will probably wait until the end of September or even October, because last year at the end of September I was at the Glen and it was 90C both days.
Your car is surprisingly quick, I don't think I have seen any BMW braking 2 min mark at the glen.
In Texas, summer is basically our off season.

Weather wise, Tuesday ended up being pretty nice.

And I think you mean 90F.
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      07-19-2018, 12:03 PM   #12
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In Texas, summer is basically our off season.

Weather wise, Tuesday ended up being pretty nice.

And I think you mean 90F.
I think we would have a major overheating of everything in case of 90C
You probably know, by how much are A7s faster than R7s in terms of lap times?
I am going to attempt to beat my PB-2:04.34 at WGI in September or October and this time will use Hoosiers instead of BFG R1S.
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      08-03-2018, 03:56 PM   #13
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245s..?

I can only guess you are doing that to get the +0.6?
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      08-03-2018, 03:59 PM   #14
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245s..?

I can only guess you are doing that to get the +0.6?
Yep
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      08-03-2018, 04:02 PM   #15
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Yep
I feel like you'd still be better off doing 275's with the +0.3 and running, what would that be - maybe 10hp less?

The increase in grip likely outweighs the loss in power.

Just my opinion... regardless, quick lap.
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      08-03-2018, 04:49 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk94 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post
Yep
I feel like you'd still be better off doing 275's with the +0.3 and running, what would that be - maybe 10hp less?

The increase in grip likely outweighs the loss in power.

Just my opinion... regardless, quick lap.
What's your setup?

Considering Hoosiers 245's are really like 266's, I don't really feel like I am giving up a whole lot. Car so far has been competitive against cars with much wider rubber.

What do you see as the advantages of wider tires versus lightness?
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      08-04-2018, 12:17 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post
What's your setup?

Considering Hoosiers 245's are really like 266's, I don't really feel like I am giving up a whole lot. Car so far has been competitive against cars with much wider rubber.

What do you see as the advantages of wider tires versus lightness?
When I had an E46, it wasn't a full track car, but running the 275's the amount of grip it gave was incredible. Coming from an E36 race car on 255's, the E46 on 275's - while being 600-700 heavier, had equal grip if not actually better in some specific turns.

Obviously I'm not disagreeing that the setup isn't competitive, as it clearly is as shown by the time you ran. But I can't help but think you might be a bit quicker on wider tires.

I wouldn't look it as adding weight to run the wider tires, rather reduce your averaged HP figure slightly. That way you keep the weight as is, get to run the wider tires and only pay a small penalty of ~10hp less. Just a thought, not even saying you should definitely do it, but maybe it's something worth looking into a bit?
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      08-04-2018, 05:50 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk94 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post
What's your setup?

Considering Hoosiers 245's are really like 266's, I don't really feel like I am giving up a whole lot. Car so far has been competitive against cars with much wider rubber.

What do you see as the advantages of wider tires versus lightness?
When I had an E46, it wasn't a full track car, but running the 275's the amount of grip it gave was incredible. Coming from an E36 race car on 255's, the E46 on 275's - while being 600-700 heavier, had equal grip if not actually better in some specific turns.

Obviously I'm not disagreeing that the setup isn't competitive, as it clearly is as shown by the time you ran. But I can't help but think you might be a bit quicker on wider tires.

I wouldn't look it as adding weight to run the wider tires, rather reduce your averaged HP figure slightly. That way you keep the weight as is, get to run the wider tires and only pay a small penalty of ~10hp less. Just a thought, not even saying you should definitely do it, but maybe it's something worth looking into a bit?
I actually started TT3 running 275's. Of course I have improved as a driver so I don't really have a good comparison from those days to these days. I'll have to try again.

Some of the guys at LRP were running GTS3 tunes with 315's. They were quick!
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      08-06-2018, 09:05 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post
I actually started TT3 running 275's. Of course I have improved as a driver so I don't really have a good comparison from those days to these days. I'll have to try again.

Some of the guys at LRP were running GTS3 tunes with 315's. They were quick!
Its hard to imagine that your car wont be faster with 275s vs 245s.
I would definitely do it.
Negligible loss in power vs increased grip in the corners will result in faster laps. Remember, we spend more time in the turns than in a straight line on a typical road course.
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      08-06-2018, 09:43 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Datka View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post
I actually started TT3 running 275's. Of course I have improved as a driver so I don't really have a good comparison from those days to these days. I'll have to try again.

Some of the guys at LRP were running GTS3 tunes with 315's. They were quick!
Its hard to imagine that your car wont be faster with 275s vs 245s.
I would definitely do it.
Negligible loss in power vs increased grip in the corners will result in faster laps. Remember, we spend more time in the turns than in a straight line on a typical road course.
One thing to consider is that NASA has an adjustment factor for just that reason. So theoretically if NASA has the factor right then it should make no difference if I go to wider tires but at the expense of weight or power.

I may try a set for practice in October and see what impact improvement I can make.

Thanks guys for the suggestions.
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      08-06-2018, 06:52 PM   #21
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Congrats on the record! Looking forward to the video. What did you think of the track overall?
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      08-06-2018, 07:08 PM   #22
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Congrats on the record! Looking forward to the video. What did you think of the track overall?
I posted in the videos thread but went ahead and updated my post. Not my record setting lap, but 2nd and 3rd fastest of the weekend.
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