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      12-15-2015, 11:39 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3SennA View Post
this incident has made me lose my balls, which is good in a way.
now back to 2:01 HAHA
you scared.
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      12-15-2015, 12:23 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imolam3 View Post
See if you can attend one of the skid control class. Driveway Austin has one. Or find an empty parking lot on a rainy day and have at it.
No go on empty parking lot. I'm not interested in dealing with LEOs. I'll look up some skid control events.
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      12-15-2015, 01:13 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Kong Sheng Han View Post
No go on empty parking lot. I'm not interested in dealing with LEOs. I'll look up some skid control events.

Not to keep rambling about Bondurant, but they had skid cars (with the dollies on each wheel to raise/lower them at will). Probably the most useful exercise we had all day. I used to be a bit terrified of those "snap" oversteer situations but now I can correct it almost entirely on instinct. Highly recommend those types of exercises!

It was a real riot to watch EVERYONE spin the first few times (did the exercise in groups), even when the instructor was clearly about to change the traction situation.

In fact, this is the EXACT car I used there in February:

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      12-15-2015, 01:31 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kong Sheng Han View Post
No go on empty parking lot. I'm not interested in dealing with LEOs. I'll look up some skid control events.
just do it at the track event. or even better if the track hosts an open track day just find a corner that is safe to practice and go off, make sure there is no one in front or behind you and have a go.

here is a small vid of my few first days with traction control off.



fast forward one year and im doing this.



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      12-15-2015, 06:59 PM   #137
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Kong, I've noticed you seem interested in gaining some car control (also on m3f).

Here's my advice and what I tell people who want to learn:

Start with one or two skid pad events. Bring an extra pair or two of tires.

Start with doing a donut. Left handed turn donut. Then right hand turn donut (or vice versa, just practice both sides). You'll probably want to use 2nd gear to start with. Get the feel of where the car starts sliding and what inputs in takes to keep it there. Then you can increase the radius of the turn to make as wide a circle you can given the space you have. Experiment that way.

Then once you a starting to get a decent feel of sliding the car on either side, you can start trying transitions. Slide the car one side and try to transfer the slide to the other side. Eg. make an imaginary figure 8.

It's all about weight transfer and feeling the car.

Spending an entire day doing that I guarantee you you will start getting the hang of it.

Not sure I would recommend trying your first slides on an actual track through an actual turn (higher speed, other cars around, less asphalt run off).
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      12-15-2015, 08:00 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiv
Kong, I've noticed you seem interested in gaining some car control (also on m3f).

Here's my advice and what I tell people who want to learn:

Start with one or two skid pad events. Bring an extra pair or two of tires.

Start with doing a donut. Left handed turn donut. Then right hand turn donut (or vice versa, just practice both sides). You'll probably want to use 2nd gear to start with. Get the feel of where the car starts sliding and what inputs in takes to keep it there. Then you can increase the radius of the turn to make as wide a circle you can given the space you have. Experiment that way.

Then once you a starting to get a decent feel of sliding the car on either side, you can start trying transitions. Slide the car one side and try to transfer the slide to the other side. Eg. make an imaginary figure 8.

It's all about weight transfer and feeling the car.

Spending an entire day doing that I guarantee you you will start getting the hang of it.

Not sure I would recommend trying your first slides on an actual track through an actual turn (higher speed, other cars around, less asphalt run off).
That's what I did lol.

During a lemons test day so it was slow
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      12-16-2015, 03:22 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Not to keep rambling about Bondurant, but they had skid cars (with the dollies on each wheel to raise/lower them at will). Probably the most useful exercise we had all day. I used to be a bit terrified of those "snap" oversteer situations but now I can correct it almost entirely on instinct. Highly recommend those types of exercises!

It was a real riot to watch EVERYONE spin the first few times (did the exercise in groups), even when the instructor was clearly about to change the traction situation.

In fact, this is the EXACT car I used there in February:

Bondurant probably on my radar for sometime next year. Maybe the 3-4 day course.
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      12-18-2015, 07:07 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiv View Post
Kong, I've noticed you seem interested in gaining some car control (also on m3f).

Here's my advice and what I tell people who want to learn:

Start with one or two skid pad events. Bring an extra pair or two of tires.

Start with doing a donut. Left handed turn donut. Then right hand turn donut (or vice versa, just practice both sides). You'll probably want to use 2nd gear to start with. Get the feel of where the car starts sliding and what inputs in takes to keep it there. Then you can increase the radius of the turn to make as wide a circle you can given the space you have. Experiment that way.

Then once you a starting to get a decent feel of sliding the car on either side, you can start trying transitions. Slide the car one side and try to transfer the slide to the other side. Eg. make an imaginary figure 8.

It's all about weight transfer and feeling the car.

Spending an entire day doing that I guarantee you you will start getting the hang of it.

Not sure I would recommend trying your first slides on an actual track through an actual turn (higher speed, other cars around, less asphalt run off).
This is great advice.

I did a couple car control clinics with Porsche owners club in my all-wheel drive 911 which has very different dynamics than an M3. I became very comfortable with the car because of these clinics and in fact was sliding it out all day at the Thermal Club last week never an issue with recovery. Now that I've decided to track my M3 instead I'm going to do this all over again before I get back on the track. While nothing will prevent a freak accident perhaps like what happened here, we are all going at a very high rate of speed and making spit second decisions that our life depends on so don't skip the basics.
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      12-18-2015, 02:24 PM   #141
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Thanks for the responses guys. Very helpful posts. I've been looking into some local car control clinics. There is an autox/drift event with a large skid pad that I'll probably go to on the 27th, so I can get some practice.
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      12-19-2015, 09:16 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kong Sheng Han View Post
Thanks for the responses guys. Very helpful posts. I've been looking into some local car control clinics. There is an autox/drift event with a large skid pad that I'll probably go to on the 27th, so I can get some practice.
Check out Fabricated Motorsports. They do a series in TX which is a feeder for formula drift. Mostly at Mineral Wells but they go to some place on I45 near Houston 2x per year.
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      12-20-2015, 01:33 PM   #143
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My condolences to Ivo's family. With that said two deaths this year, and one last year has me leaning towards some sort of government regulation in this industry, especially regarding instructor certification, and training.
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      12-20-2015, 08:06 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
My condolences to Ivo's family. With that said two deaths this year, and one last year has me leaning towards some sort of government regulation in this industry, especially regarding instructor certification, and training.


Are you suggesting that the latter would have prevented the former in some way?
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      12-20-2015, 09:52 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by Estoril Blue View Post
Are you suggesting that the latter would have prevented the former in some way?
IVO was an instructor. Not sure about the crash at autoclub earlier this year, but the one at chuckwala last year also had an instructor in the vehicle. What type of national standard does an instructor have to meet? How many track hours? etc..
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      12-20-2015, 10:10 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
IVO was an instructor. Not sure about the crash at autoclub earlier this year, but the one at chuckwala last year also had an instructor in the vehicle. What type of national standard does an instructor have to meet? How many track hours? etc..

Many instructors are trained and tested to a rigorous standard established by organizations like BMWCCA and PCA (among others).

What I asked is whether you are stating (it reads as such) that the U.S. federal government regulating HPDEs would have changed the outcome of the incidents you noted. If so - please explain how the federal government would do that and how it would prevent such incidents.
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      12-20-2015, 10:31 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
My condolences to Ivo's family. With that said two deaths this year, and one last year has me leaning towards some sort of government regulation in this industry, especially regarding instructor certification, and training.
Do you really think the government is going to fix this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Estoril Blue View Post
Many instructors are trained and tested to a rigorous standard established by organizations like BMWCCA and PCA (among others).

What I asked is whether you are stating (it reads as such) that the U.S. federal government regulating HPDEs would have changed the outcome of the incidents you noted. If so - please explain how the federal government would do that and how it would prevent such incidents.
I've heard that there are DE orgs that train by putting instructors on the side of the track with radios.

I've always said this...careful who you HPDE with. Instructor qualifications vary greatly between the different organizations. Some groups are more interested in filling slots. Some have established standards and procedures.

Just because racecar doesn't mean a better instructor. In fact...some of the worst or most questionable instructors are racers. Racing is not the same as HPDE. Some skills are interchangeable but HPDE is a non-competitive environment.

BMWCCA and PCA are the two DE orgs that are good at it. Driver's Edge in TX is the best one I've driven with.

The tell tale sign on the quality of DE org...the morning driver's briefing. Do they stress safety? Flags? Playing well with others? In my experience over the past 7 years...the ones that don't are usually the ones that I would rate as poor.
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      12-20-2015, 11:11 PM   #148
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Hell no to govt regulation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
Check out Fabricated Motorsports. They do a series in TX which is a feeder for formula drift. Mostly at Mineral Wells but they go to some place on I45 near Houston 2x per year.
Didn't see any past events near Houston. I'll monitor their FB page.
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      12-21-2015, 02:19 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by redpriest View Post
Bondurant probably on my radar for sometime next year. Maybe the 3-4 day course.

Awesome dude, let us know what you think. I plan to return in the next year or two for the more advanced stuff...and to try a Z06.
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