Anyone running without Cam Gear Covers?

[jcieslik]

So this just happened.





Ground up parts in the oil pan.

Wanted to see what people knew about leaving these covers off. Specifically does anyone have experience with that spring popping off? I have another one that is cracked... really don't want to drop the money if there is no benefit to keeping them on and don't want to risk this happening again. It clogged my sump oil pump up pretty good.

[deansbimmer]

Without the covers present, the VANOS tension springs can and will pop loose and ruin your engine and your day. They are mandatory. Unfortunately the plastic covers are not sold by themselves and require a replacement VANOS adjuster in order to obtain the cover. You can buy a used adjuster (I have several available if interested) and carefully swap the covers so you don't have to re-time the engine.

Did you have a crash impact which damaged the cover?

[Iyzmi]

I had this happen to my car 100 miles after I got it. See my comments here:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1239136

TL;DR... you absolutely do need to replace those covers.

[jcieslik]

Gotcha. I must have damaged them rebuilding this engine. Machine shop put a sleeve in wrong so I am having to fix that and I came across that. Dean, I live down in Dallas and have gotten parts from you before. Will text once I know the sleeve can be fixed. Thanks.

[deansbimmer]

Jeff?

No worries. Hope you can salvage it. Would be curious to see what went wrong with the sleeve.

[motorhead_02]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

Without the covers present, the VANOS tension springs can and will pop loose and ruin your engine and your day. They are mandatory. Unfortunately the plastic covers are not sold by themselves and require a replacement VANOS adjuster in order to obtain the cover. You can buy a used adjuster (I have several available if interested) and carefully swap the covers so you don't have to re-time the engine.

Did you have a crash impact which damaged the cover?

I think by saying to replace vanos and pay thousands of dollars just because plastic covers is completely unprofessional. Two very reliable companies EDVA Motorsport and Team Schirmer confirmed that S65 can be operating without covers. However there is an option to buy machined timing gear covers and it will cost way less than replacing vanos units because of plastic covers.

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by motorhead_02

I think by saying to replace vanos and pay thousands of dollars just because plastic covers is completely unprofessional. Two very reliable companies EDVA Motorsport and Team Schirmer confirmed that S65 can be operating without covers. However there is an option to buy machined timing gear covers and it will cost way less than replacing vanos units because of plastic covers.

No sir, unprofessional would be any kind of professional shop or engine builder advising a customer to operate their engine without some type of engineered solution to a missing VANOS cover. That's simply negligent.
Obviously, the adjusters function without the covers. The covers act as a keeper to prevent the outer coil spring leg from walking off the face of the unit.

The garages you mention plus several others, including mine will replace the plastic covers with hardened steel discs to retain the coil spring. That has been done for years in the motorsports shops but is just recently being discovered by the online groups. If a budget doesn't allow new adjusters, these discs would be a good option. Carbahn is willing to sell these direct.

Side note: about half of the adjusters we've disassembled with damaged or missing covers, we've found either broken return pins or rotors inside. It's another reason we typically recommend replacement adjusters. Excessive rattles or startup noises can usually be attributed to damaged VANOS adjusters. They don't always generate faults when bad.

[timothy2001]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

Excessive rattles or startup noises can usually be attributed to damaged VANOS adjusters. They don't always generate faults when bad.

Would love to hear what this sounds like if you have a recording of it. I had a pretty good brief 'clack clack' sound on cold starts that has 'gone away'. I attributed that to lack of oil up top on cold starts.

[motorhead_02]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

No sir, unprofessional would be any kind of professional shop or engine builder advising a customer to operate their engine without some type of engineered solution to a missing VANOS cover. That's simply negligent.
Obviously, the adjusters function without the covers. The covers act as a keeper to prevent the outer coil spring leg from walking off the face of the unit.

The garages you mention plus several others, including mine will replace the plastic covers with hardened steel discs to retain the coil spring. That has been done for years in the motorsports shops but is just recently being discovered by the online groups. If a budget doesn't allow new adjusters, these discs would be a good option. Carbahn is willing to sell these direct.

Side note: about half of the adjusters we've disassembled with damaged or missing covers, we've found either broken return pins or rotors inside. It's another reason we typically recommend replacement adjusters. Excessive rattles or startup noises can usually be attributed to damaged VANOS adjusters. They don't always generate faults when bad.

How the hell that plastic piece that almost loose can hold such a massive spring in place? it just doesnt make sense, yes that CarBanh plates will hold it but not plastic ones.

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by motorhead_02

How the hell that plastic piece that almost loose can hold such a massive spring in place? it just doesnt make sense, yes that CarBanh plates will hold it but not plastic ones.

Those assumptions are understandable for anyone who doesn't understand the design of these systems. Here is a link you might find helpful for education on the subject.

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1516080

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

Those assumptions are understandable for anyone who doesn't understand the design of these systems. Here is a link you might find helpful for education on the subject.

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1516080

Hey Dean, how is the plastic cover actually attached to the vanos?

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Hey Dean, how is the plastic cover actually attached to the vanos?

They just snap on. The plastic cover has barbs on the backside that clip into the adjuster casing. Once they are snapped in place it's very difficult to take them back off without damaging them.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

They just snap on. The plastic cover has barbs on the backside that clip into the adjuster casing. Once they are snapped in place it's very difficult to take them back off without damaging them.

Thanks. Sounds worrying, so once spun, nothing is holding it back/in??

As mentioned in the other thread I just checked to find mine lost grip . One wonder, how the heck can a 20 gram piece of plastic find the torque to force the stop clip out of its place..??
(https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1846010&page=3)

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Thanks. Sounds worrying, so once spun, nothing is holding it back/in??

As mentioned in the other thread I just checked to find mine lost grip . One wonder, how the heck can a 20 gram piece of plastic find the torque to force the stop clip out of its place..??
(https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1846010&page=3)

The cap isn't holding the spring force. Pins pressed into the vanos adjuster hold the spring force. The caps simply keep the outer spring foot from walking forward and off of the spring pin. There's no significant force required for that function…

[InnerBlueSkies]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

The cap isn't holding the spring force. Pins pressed into the vanos adjuster hold the spring force. The caps simply keep the outer spring foot from walking forward and off of the spring pin. There's no significant force required for that function…

Dean, you are the master. That's why Ill tow my car 215 miles to you the next time my M shits the bed.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

The cap isn't holding the spring force. Pins pressed into the vanos adjuster hold the spring force. The caps simply keep the outer spring foot from walking forward and off of the spring pin. There's no significant force required for that function…

Thanks again Dean, yep believe I get that bit, but wonder as my cap have spun with the stop taps bulging out of its hole, does that mean also the taps actually snapping the cover also will have lost its "grip"?
Looking at the various pictures but still can't figure out how the cap is hold in place.