M3 vs B8 S4 TFSI V6 3.0

[jaehshim]

Let's talk engine here (please no suspension, handling, no weight issues)

I've been analyzing some Dyno numbers of M3 (stock/6mt/dct etc...)
It goes somewhere from 300~350Whp + 250~280lb torque.
It just amazes me when a stock B8 S4 can pull ~330Whp + ~335lb torque.

Trust me, I've been a big fan () of NA engines, from M3 NA engine since E46 to Honda K series engines.
I always liked the pursuit of M engine designs, high rpm mechanism, flat torque all throughout, individual throttle body (), simply incredible genes of a racing inspired engine.

However, when it is up on dyno for "true" power output, it is behind FI engines. I use B8 S4's V6 TFSI's engine as an example, because it is widely known as the "underestimated" engine. It easily puts 330+ All Wheel hp with much better torque than the M3. Interestingly enough, this V6 TFSI is also used in current A6, which runs 0 to 60 in 4.6sec (say compared to Lexus IS-F's V8 5.0L 420Hp running 4.8 sec 0 to 60)

Why does Dyno always show "more loss" of output in NA engines when compared with FI engines?

I'm trying to get a hold of the latest E92...and I am also personally against the idea of 6cylinder Turbo M3.
But my conclusion keeps coming back to FI engines, which has better power, easier power, with better fuel efficiency.

what do you think?

[brava09]

Drove a S4 B8 and didn't feel as fast as my M3.
Not sure your dyno numbers you mention are correct.

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by jaehshim

However, when it is up on dyno for "true" power output, it is behind FI engines.

...............

But my conclusion keeps coming back to FI engines, which has better power, easier power, with better fuel efficiency.

Of course FI engines have better, easier power with better fuel efficiency. That's why they're invented, and that's why they're used. If you want high revving NA engine, M3 is one of the best you can get. Actually in my book, it is second to Ferrari engines.

If you want a lot of power from a relatively small engine while keeping good throttle response, get something with supercharger, or add supercharger to your NA car.

If you want massive amount of torque, highest efficiency, but annoying throttle response and lower redline, get turbo.

It's all really simple.

[BMoney]

Originally Posted by jaehshim

Let's talk engine here (please no suspension, handling, no weight issues)

I've been analyzing some Dyno numbers of M3 (stock/6mt/dct etc...)
It goes somewhere from 300~350Whp + 250~280lb torque.
It just amazes me when a stock B8 S4 can pull ~330Whp + ~335lb torque.

Trust me, I've been a big fan () of NA engines, from M3 NA engine since E46 to Honda K series engines.
I always liked the pursuit of M engine designs, high rpm mechanism, flat torque all throughout, individual throttle body (), simply incredible genes of a racing inspired engine.

However, when it is up on dyno for "true" power output, it is behind FI engines. I use B8 S4's V6 TFSI's engine as an example, because it is widely known as the "underestimated" engine. It easily puts 330+ All Wheel hp with much better torque than the M3. Interestingly enough, this V6 TFSI is also used in current A6, which runs 0 to 60 in 4.6sec (say compared to Lexus IS-F's V8 5.0L 420Hp running 4.8 sec 0 to 60)

Why does Dyno always show "more loss" of output in NA engines when compared with FI engines?

I'm trying to get a hold of the latest E92...and I am also personally against the idea of 6cylinder Turbo M3.
But my conclusion keeps coming back to FI engines, which has better power, easier power, with better fuel efficiency.

what do you think?

I owned a B8 S4 and I don't think they were putting down more than 290-300 Whp stock. I think it's more along the lines of 360 HP at the crank. Where did you see an A6 running 4.6? I haven't seen anything better than low 5's. Supposedly it has less HP than the S4.

[Lexura]

I own an IS-F and am sure as hell I will own an S4 in a drag race. On topic, the M3's V8 is one of the best engines on the planet. I will take this over any 3.0 Audi engine.

[radiantm3]

Also peak numbers are only part of the story. Need to compare the area under the curve as well.

[mmm def]

Those B8 S4's are no joke, they move along nicely. I have to say it doesn't feel much slower than my E90 M3 until you really get moving.

[JonnyM3]

Originally Posted by Lexura1414

I own an IS-F and am sure as hell I will own an S4 in a drag race. On topic, the M3's V8 is one of the best engines on the planet. I will take this over any 3.0 Audi engine.

I'm sure as hell you wouldn't, especially against a manual one....actually be surprised if you won against a properly driven one. These are light to light cars, and they will hold their own against a lot of cars out there.

you'll more than likely win from any sort of roll race, but good luck in a drag..

[I M STIG]

I almost bought the B8 S4 before I got my M3. It's a very nice car, but for the money, I couldn't justify spending $53,000 on that car when I could go down the street and get an '09 E90 M3 for $47,800, which is what I did.

It drove well, but I'll be damned if it was putting down anywhere near what the M3 is at the rear wheels stock. It feels powerful, but every bit of high 4s to 60. My M3 I know for a fact can hit low 4s without a problem most of the time.

I do like the S4, though, don't get me wrong. I just don't see why a stock one is ever mentioned with the M3. Motor for motor, Audi can build the hell out of one, they just don't have the complete package. The last proper Audi was the RS4.

[I M STIG]

Originally Posted by AudiS5

I'm sure as hell you wouldn't, especially against a manual one....actually be surprised if you won against a properly driven one. These are light to light cars, and they will hold their own against a lot of cars out there.

you'll more than likely win from any sort of roll race, but good luck in a drag..

That's a shit video. There's no way that S4 is stock... I'm sorry, but having driven the S4 enough times, it's nowhere near the speed of an RS4 from a dig, nor a C63, or IS-F. Sorry, it just isn't. The only car in that video that beats an M3 in the straights is the AMG. An IS-F isn't quite there yet, and the RS4 is right there with the M3. The S4? You're nuts if you think a stock one would ever stay that close.

[n54fanatic]

There is no way a rwd will keep up with an awd off the line it's physically impossible

[n54fanatic]

Originally Posted by AwesomeBMW2

That's a shit video. There's no way that S4 is stock... I'm sorry, but having driven the S4 enough times, it's nowhere near the speed of an RS4 from a dig, nor a C63, or IS-F. Sorry, it just isn't. The only car in that video that beats an M3 in the straights is the AMG. An IS-F isn't quite there yet, and the RS4 is right there with the M3. The S4? You're nuts if you think a stock one would ever stay that close.

yeah i remember seeing this video when the s4 first came out a couple years ago, and theres no way there were any performance items available for that brand new engine back then...as u can see in the video to 60 from a stop the s4 will be ahead AWD power, but also u can see the C63 eventually take over because of the power advantage it has over the s4...I have an s4 and i used to have a FBO 335, the s4 plain and simple is just quicker off the line but from a roll AWD cars have no chance against a RWD

[I M STIG]

Originally Posted by n54fanatic

yeah i remember seeing this video when the s4 first came out a couple years ago, and theres no way there were any performance items available for that brand new engine back then...as u can see in the video to 60 from a stop the s4 will be ahead AWD power, but also u can see the C63 eventually take over because of the power advantage it has over the s4...I have an s4 and i used to have a FBO 335, the s4 plain and simple is just quicker off the line but from a roll AWD cars have no chance against a RWD

While most all-wheel drive cars are quicker off the line, the S4 isn't quick enough to put enough power down so quickly against an M3, C63 AMG, or IS-F. I'm sorry, but it just won't. I don't care how you slice it. Initially, for the first 20 feet (maybe) it'll have gained a *small* advantage off the line, it'll never be enough to hold off those cars.

Sorry, but while an S4 is a hell of a nice car, it's just not in the same league. Not a stock one, anyway.

[JonnyM3]

Originally Posted by AwesomeBMW2

That's a shit video. There's no way that S4 is stock... I'm sorry, but having driven the S4 enough times, it's nowhere near the speed of an RS4 from a dig, nor a C63, or IS-F. Sorry, it just isn't. The only car in that video that beats an M3 in the straights is the AMG. An IS-F isn't quite there yet, and the RS4 is right there with the M3. The S4? You're nuts if you think a stock one would ever stay that close.

I'm not going over this for the 100th time, you can be as ignorant as you wanna be, but that car runs under 13 stock. An ifs runs from what I've seen 12.7-12.9 meaning on the streets this outcome is definitely plausible. Sorry you disagree, but maybe next time do some research.

[mmm def]

Originally Posted by AwesomeBMW2

I almost bought the B8 S4 before I got my M3. It's a very nice car, but for the money, I couldn't justify spending $53,000 on that car when I could go down the street and get an '09 E90 M3 for $47,800, which is what I did.

It drove well, but I'll be damned if it was putting down anywhere near what the M3 is at the rear wheels stock. It feels powerful, but every bit of high 4s to 60. My M3 I know for a fact can hit low 4s without a problem most of the time.

I do like the S4, though, don't get me wrong. I just don't see why a stock one is ever mentioned with the M3. Motor for motor, Audi can build the hell out of one, they just don't have the complete package. The last proper Audi was the RS4.

I think the B8 S4 would be good competition to the 335, not M3.

[mmm def]

If we want to bench race..R&T has the S4 at a 4.4 0-60 and 12.9 1/4.

[Lexura]

Originally Posted by AudiS5

I'm sure as hell you wouldn't, especially against a manual one....actually be surprised if you won against a properly driven one. These are light to light cars, and they will hold their own against a lot of cars out there.

you'll more than likely win from any sort of roll race, but good luck in a drag..

I have seen this video many times. In the first race, the F's tires spun too much. That is why they did a second race where the F destroyed the S4. You will not fool anybody with this video that the S4 can hang with this crowd. In this crowd, this car is the social climber. Put this car in it class, and performance. Please stop dreaming..

[JonnyM3]

Originally Posted by Lexura1414

I have seen this video many times. In the first race, the F's tires spun too much. That is why they did a second race where the F destroyed the S4. You will not fool anybody with this video that the S4 can hang with this crowd. In this crowd, this car is the social climber. Put this car in it class, and performance. Please stop dreaming..

I'm not the one dreaming, pal. Maybe you shouldn't hold your car on such a high pedistool cause it's not that much faster considering the difference in price. We won't even get in to modded S4s

http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/l...udi_s4_b8.html

Go to a track and race a manual, even better run it on the street. That thing will surprise you Before you start throwing out bold claims do some research, stock they're running into high-mid 12's.

[I M STIG]

Originally Posted by AudiS5

I'm not going over this for the 100th time, you can be as ignorant as you wanna be, but that car runs under 13 stock. An ifs runs from what I've seen 12.7-12.9 meaning on the streets this outcome is definitely plausible. Sorry you disagree, but maybe next time do some research.

I've done my research. I've not only seen them run, I've also driven each car in that segment hard enough to know. I've driven the S4, my dad owned an '11 S5. Beautiful cars, but no matter what you say, an M3, C63, and IS-F would crush the S model Audis to 60, in the 1/4, any way you slice it.

Sorry to hurt your feelings, but I don't talk shit until I know for a fact, and I know for a fact on this one. Stock for stock, and S4 and S5 are hunting 335s, 335ises, and an E46 M3 on occasion.

[I M STIG]

Originally Posted by mmm def

If we want to bench race..R&T has the S4 at a 4.4 0-60 and 12.9 1/4.

I'm looking for an issue of R&T so I can actually see that. I'm not sure how true that is. I do know they had the B7 RS4 at around 4.4-seconds to 60. So I'd be hard pressed to believe that about the B8 S4 with less power and similar weight.

[I M STIG]

Originally Posted by AudiS5

I'm not the one dreaming, pal. Maybe you shouldn't hold your car on such a high pedistool cause it's not that much faster considering the difference in price. We won't even get in to modded S4s

http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/l...udi_s4_b8.html

Go to a track and race a manual, even better run it on the street. That thing will surprise you Before you start throwing out bold claims do some research, stock they're running into high-mid 12's.

The OP was talking about engine to engine, not track performance. The IS-F is rather lazy around most tracks by comparison. Lexus haven't had enough time yet to catch up to what BMW, Audi and Mercedes know.

[JonnyM3]

Originally Posted by AwesomeBMW2

I've done my research. I've not only seen them run, I've also driven each car in that segment hard enough to know. I've driven the S4, my dad owned an '11 S5. Beautiful cars, but no matter what you say, an M3, C63, and IS-F would crush the S model Audis to 60, in the 1/4, any way you slice it.

Sorry to hurt your feelings, but I don't talk shit until I know for a fact, and I know for a fact on this one. Stock for stock, and S4 and S5 are hunting 335s, 335ises, and an E46 M3 on occasion.

No feelings hurt at all, but I owned an S5 for 2 years, drove an S4 for 6 months and have now owns my e90 M for over a year. Stock for stock you're not crushing shit. The manuals run in to the high mid 12's with a lower trap then our cars. All other things aside, you're not out running one of these cars by far in a 0-100 mph race. I'm not gonna get into other aspects of the car like handling, but I also won't touch on how easy those cars are to mod. The m is my favorite car to date, but I'm not ignorant to other cars. You're obviously uneducated towards what that Audi is capable of. As I said before. Anyone who thinks try would own this car race one from a dig to 100. A roll race is diff and I'm not arguing that or tracking.