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      01-22-2009, 02:18 AM   #67
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Ok PencilGeek...i got it...Thank you for celaring this up,along with the rest of you guys here...
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      01-22-2009, 03:28 AM   #68
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interesting read.
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      01-22-2009, 03:36 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbp335
Don't compare a 3 series to a Ferrari.....it's not even close. The M3 power is at the bottom of all it's competitor. Yeah yeah sure it's meant to shine on the track not at a straight line. But your average joe don't take it to the track, his race track is the freeway and stop light to stop light. Which put the M3 at a big disadvantage. The M3 dominance over competition ended with the E46.
Let me address all of your points, one at a time.

I don't think it's fair to compare a Ferrari to an M3, on average it near a third of the price yet it delivers about 85% of the ability which is not bad at all.

It will be the least powerful when the RS5 arrives but even then the M3 will hold up well if the M5 is anything to go by. But unlike it's bigger family member the M3 is at the top on every other thing it does compared to it's rivals, the only unknown is the RS5 but I doubt it will be that much better, probably a similar improvement to the likes of the S4 vs 335i.

I agree that the M3 has a disadvantage at stop lights, it's only really gets going near the end of most street races, but then the kind of DICKS which street race don't think of the speed limits so it could stand a pretty good chance after all.

Total BS about the best M3 being the E46, the difference this time round is the competition has got a lot better and it's this that makes the new M3 look like it's stood still. Fact is that it's miles better than the previous version in every way possible.
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      01-22-2009, 07:47 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Let me address all of your points, one at a time.

I don't think it's fair to compare a Ferrari to an M3, on average it near a third of the price yet it delivers about 85% of the ability which is not bad at all.

It will be the least powerful when the RS5 arrives but even then the M3 will hold up well if the M5 is anything to go by. But unlike it's bigger family member the M3 is at the top on every other thing it does compared to it's rivals, the only unknown is the RS5 but I doubt it will be that much better, probably a similar improvement to the likes of the S4 vs 335i.

I agree that the M3 has a disadvantage at stop lights, it's only really gets going near the end of most street races, but then the kind of DICKS which street race don't think of the speed limits so it could stand a pretty good chance after all.

Total BS about the best M3 being the E46, the difference this time round is the competition has got a lot better and it's this that makes the new M3 look like it's stood still. Fact is that it's miles better than the previous version in every way possible.
It's true. I owned an e46 M3 before and as much as I loved that car... the e9x is so much better. It just does everything so well. People have this tendency to think they want a race car on the street and the more compliant the ride the less of a car it is. Thats just totally wrong. Even a Ferrari has a nice ride when you want it to.
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      01-22-2009, 07:50 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
...Total BS about the best M3 being the E46, the difference this time round is the competition has got a lot better and it's this that makes the new M3 look like it's stood still. Fact is that it's miles better than the previous version in every way possible.
Except for size and weight, of course. I never liked our E46 much, and the new one is better in almost every way (as you say) - yet I couldn't help but notice the extra wheelbase and poundage when doing some twisties. The 128 I drove had much better tossability.

I've never driven an E30 version, but judging by my experience with the E36, 46 and 92, that old car was probably the best one for back-road banditry.

Bruce
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      01-22-2009, 08:45 AM   #72
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Great thread, both interesting and entertaining!
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      01-22-2009, 08:54 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Let me address all of your points, one at a time.

I don't think it's fair to compare a Ferrari to an M3, on average it near a third of the price yet it delivers about 85% of the ability which is not bad at all.

It will be the least powerful when the RS5 arrives but even then the M3 will hold up well if the M5 is anything to go by. But unlike it's bigger family member the M3 is at the top on every other thing it does compared to it's rivals, the only unknown is the RS5 but I doubt it will be that much better, probably a similar improvement to the likes of the S4 vs 335i.

I agree that the M3 has a disadvantage at stop lights, it's only really gets going near the end of most street races, but then the kind of DICKS which street race don't think of the speed limits so it could stand a pretty good chance after all.

Total BS about the best M3 being the E46, the difference this time round is the competition has got a lot better and it's this that makes the new M3 look like it's stood still. Fact is that it's miles better than the previous version in every way possible.
+1 Well said!
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      01-22-2009, 08:56 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbp335 View Post
Don't compare a 3 series to a Ferrari.....it's not even close. The M3 power is at the bottom of all it's competitor. Yeah yeah sure it's meant to shine on the track not at a straight line. But your average joe don't take it to the track, his race track is the freeway and stop light to stop light. Which put the M3 at a big disadvantage. The M3 dominance over competition ended with the E46.
and your 335 cant beat Nissan's.
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      01-22-2009, 09:15 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
Except for size and weight, of course. I never liked our E46 much, and the new one is better in almost every way (as you say) - yet I couldn't help but notice the extra wheelbase and poundage when doing some twisties. The 128 I drove had much better tossability.

I've never driven an E30 version, but judging by my experience with the E36, 46 and 92, that old car was probably the best one for back-road banditry.

Bruce
It's my first M3 but I am lucky enough to have a family member who has an E46 M3 and previously owned by the E30 and E36 so I have driven all of them and know exactly how each have improved and how each have lost a little something through each version. The E30 is by far the best balanced M car ever, it was so alert to your inputs by ride remarkably well given it track-oriented chassis, some of this has to do with the electronic dampers. The E36 improved on performance but lost it's fine ride, balance and steering feel, his example with a 3.0L which I felt was the nicer engine and the better gearbox.

He currently has the E46 and in comparing my E92 to it I personal find my car both to have much better ride, refinement and response from the engine. It's steering doesn't have quite the feel but it's easier to place the car on the road so BMW has done something right.

I know I have discussed this before but to make a judgement on an E9? without sampling it with stock 18" is wrong, the car behaves much better on back road and the steering just feels better. In my opinion it's the driver's option.
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      01-22-2009, 01:24 PM   #76
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interesting thread.

so the hub dyno is supposed to have less drivetrain loss measurement than the wheel dyno? I'd be interested in some hard facts or measurements showing this, if anyone has anything

My understanding is that mustang dyno's do have some unaccounted losses, but that dynojets are pretty accurate as the measurement already takes into account frictional losses on the dyno wheel, etc.


I just did my dyno yesterday and the usual ~15-17% loss is fairly accurate from what I saw. Would be interested to see what the numbers would look like on a hub dyno

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      01-22-2009, 01:33 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William Blake View Post
Has the M3 ever been on a dyno that measures drivetrain losses?

Measuring at the hubs it probably the best, even better so if it also can measure the losses.

With this high-revving N/A engine, the airflow is absolutely critical! This thing sucks in air from 3 different places..

Pencilgeek, do you use 100 octane ROZ or RON? 91 ROZ = 98 ROZ?

I just did my dyno last night...
I got 382.8 @ rear wheels




Heres the link to my thread with vids/dynos

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202824

BY THE WAY: I used 94 Octane (available @ Sunoco)
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