Why are all M3s rated at 414 Bhp ,when they actually produce 320 Whp at the Dyno...?

[zamm3k]

Originally Posted by maaicher

If you owned or had ever driven the m3 you would shut your mouth man. the m3 makes this torque N/A...your 335 makes about the same torque with 2 turbo's?...thats pretty pathetic if you ask me

woah woah woah. I have a 135i and my best friend has an e92 M3 so I drive both of them a lot. I don't mean to redirect this thread, but believe me the power the N54 engine makes is not pathetic by any means. The way BMW used the biturbo 6 cylinder engine is impressive. I keep up with my buddy's M3 until we start reaching top speed, which is mostly based on displacement and cylinder advantage. And I'm completely stock. Now mind you, an M3 is just a hell of an experience EVERY time you drive it, I love it for that, but the torque in the N54 is just endless, not to mention it produces an underrated 300 hp (which is actually 332 bhp, tested and proven).

Continue

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by AlpenWhite25

I also think that we should use the same Dyno as a tool to measure upgrades as Mixja recomended...Due to the relative measurment they can provide....

You shouldn't compare numbers from different Dynos even if they are the same model because there are so many variables involved that it is almost impossible to ensure the same car would measure the same on two differrent dynos. Dyno numbers should be used only as a guide not absolute. Even a comparison on the same dyno on different days could skew the number.

[MrAdams]

Originally Posted by kbp335

420hp and only 270 ft.torque is pretty pathetic if you ask me. You have to rev the heck out of the engine to even get to that 420hp for a brief second between 7500-8500 rpm.

Originally Posted by kbp335

Don't compare a 3 series to a Ferrari.....it's not even close. The M3 power is at the bottom of all it's competitor. Yeah yeah sure it's meant to shine on the track not at a straight line. But your average joe don't take it to the track, his race track is the freeway and stop light to stop light. Which put the M3 at a big disadvantage. The M3 dominance over competition ended with the E46.

I knew I should of gotten a normal 3 series. What were we thinking guys?

Why don't you you go buy a blow off valve or something. go away.

[arr0gant]

Originally Posted by kbp335

420hp and only 270 ft.torque is pretty pathetic if you ask me. You have to rev the heck out of the engine to even get to that 420hp for a brief second between 7500-8500 rpm.

This is a ridiculous comment, IMO.

a brand new 911 GT3 has 415BHP and only 255 lb-ft at the wheels. As well as puts it's max HP at 7600!!

Anyway, here's my dyno. It was 90 degrees out, they told me in a perfect climate I could easily expect an extra 10 W-HP out of it.

Also, you get a close-to-max HP burst from 7000rpm ALL the way up to the rediline of 8300rpm. ...and look how FLAT that torq curve is!!!

Bottom line, this engine is a masterpiece... One of the the greatest out there!

[Green-Eggs]

interested

[AlpenWhite25]

From my point of view the majority of the M3 Owners are having a average of330-340 whp...I can agree with most of you guys here...that we really should use these figures as general guides...but the main thing remains...


If most people here are measuring 340....even 350 stock that means that there is a 64 hp loss due to the drivetrain...and simply this is not accurate!

I also do accept that many variables can affect Dyno figures...i just cant understand how most the M3 are writing down the same number(around 340)...I mean from my research i have seen like 2 dynos puting down the factory claim of 370something and all of the rest (i believe i have found another 8-9 dynos)stick between 320 and 340 max....

I am sorry but i am still sceptical...althought i really want to find the correct answer...i really dont think that BMW MDivision have a Bad Name for selling Underpowered Vehicles

[ihyln]

Unfortunately, kbp335 is one of "those" on e90post that have virtually no understanding of cars or race cars.

[Kbueno]

Originally Posted by arr0gant

This is a ridiculous comment, IMO.

a brand new 911 GT3 has 415BHP and only 255 lb-ft at the wheels. As well as puts it's max HP at 7600!!

Anyway, here's my dyno. It was 90 degrees out, they told me in a perfect climate I could easily expect an extra 10 W-HP out of it.

Also, you get a close-to-max HP burst from 7000rpm ALL the way up to the rediline of 8300rpm. ...and look how FLAT that torq curve is!!!

Bottom line, this engine is a masterpiece... One of the the greatest out there!

The comment is off-base but not ridiculous. You guys gotta realize that when you get out of the 335 and step into the M3, one would expect a vast power difference. It's there indeed but not till the revs come up...it just has to be driven differently for max performance. I also crack up with all the non-FI purist comments.

[CPM5]

Very mature!!!!

Originally Posted by FStop7

Then leave, fagbag.

[bdkevoIX]

350whp is no slouch by any means.
M3 was never supposed to be the horsepower king anyway.
Take the car for what it is.
If you are not happy, go buy a z06 and put pretty interior.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by kbp335

Don't compare a 3 series to a Ferrari.....it's not even close. The M3 power is at the bottom of all it's competitor. Yeah yeah sure it's meant to shine on the track not at a straight line. But your average joe don't take it to the track, his race track is the freeway and stop light to stop light. Which put the M3 at a big disadvantage. The M3 dominance over competition ended with the E46.

The Ferrari comparison is valid actually; only about 7% off. And I suspect the F430 engine won't last as long.

And it outperforms the NA competition, even the new 911, in terms of hp/l. What are you talking about?

Also, you might be stupid enough to race at stoplights, but I am not. I'd rather enjoy that type of performance at the track.

[bdkevoIX]

Ignore the stupid comments. When equally built, M3 engine is capable of ALOT more power than 335i's open deck n54.

Current gen M3 is a technological marvel. One who is fortunate enough to own one shouldn't complain at all.

It maybe slower than some of other cars out there, but there will always be faster cars no matter what.

[Stunnerable]

Originally Posted by kbp335

Don't compare a 3 series to a Ferrari.....it's not even close. The M3 power is at the bottom of all it's competitor. Yeah yeah sure it's meant to shine on the track not at a straight line. But your average joe don't take it to the track, his race track is the freeway and stop light to stop light. Which put the M3 at a big disadvantage. The M3 dominance over competition ended with the E46.

HAHA!!! Yeah thats what I got am M for.. for street racing. Toolbag, the M3 is a balanced athlete of a car. It's not about racing from red light to red light.. it's for curvy twisty up and down roads. Thats where it shines. I think you belong in the GTO forum.

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by kbp335

Don't compare a 3 series to a Ferrari.....it's not even close. The M3 power is at the bottom of all it's competitor. Yeah yeah sure it's meant to shine on the track not at a straight line. But your average joe don't take it to the track, his race track is the freeway and stop light to stop light. Which put the M3 at a big disadvantage. The M3 dominance over competition ended with the E46.

that's not true at all. I am not saying a "3 series" is a "ferrari" i am saying even Ferrari couldnt get more torque out of such a small engine!!! it's just physics. you cannot get more torque out of such small displacement. the other cars you are talking about add at least 1 liter of displacement. This engine is one hell of an engine. you are discrediting it by comparing it to 5+ liter engine. we're talking "engine" not car!

the m3 shines at both track and straight line. your last statement is just completely dumb, im not even gonna honor it with a response. sorry

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by kbp335

Don't compare a 3 series to a Ferrari.....it's not even close. The M3 power is at the bottom of all it's competitor. Yeah yeah sure it's meant to shine on the track not at a straight line. But your average joe don't take it to the track, his race track is the freeway and stop light to stop light. Which put the M3 at a big disadvantage. The M3 dominance over competition ended with the E46.

Gotta love the little 335i owners who hate that they are driving a 3 series and not an M3. I picture him as a little 18 year old who drives stoplight to stoplight looking for a race. He probably revs on old ladies in convertible Corvettes.

[Griz]

Everyone that has responded to kbp335,

Congratulations on falling into the trap.

[gobuffs]

The typical best guess for drivetrain loss for a BMW when putting a car on a chassis dyno is 18%. So an M3 with 414 hp should be around 340 RWHP. The problems with comparing dynos has already been hashed out above. Dyno operators can manipulate the calibration and use different correction factors to greatly influence the number. Some dyno brands read higher than others. Comparing dyno runs is just pissing in the wind- don't do it.

BMWs are generally UNDERRATED from the factory. The first dyno tests I saw on the 335s were showing RWHP figures that were equal to what the factory was quoting flywheel numbers. A BMW engine can have a spec that falls from -1% to +10% of the rated figure and still be within specs. So an M3 can have 409 to 455 hp and be within specs.

[Roadkiller]

Originally Posted by kbp335

Don't compare a 3 series to a Ferrari.....it's not even close. The M3 power is at the bottom of all it's competitor. Yeah yeah sure it's meant to shine on the track not at a straight line. But your average joe don't take it to the track, his race track is the freeway and stop light to stop light. Which put the M3 at a big disadvantage. The M3 dominance over competition ended with the E46.

Still lovin' my M....

[newtom3]

I do compare the M3 to the 430 since I drove both, and on the gas btw. I can tell you this much... no way in hell I would pay the huge price premium for the noticeable but small performance premium. I am very happy with the M3... esp now learning how to drive only with the paddles... it's a freaking blast. I love the revving engine... not one complaint here.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by ihyln

Unfortunately, kbp335 is one of "those" on e90post that have virtually no understanding of cars or race cars.

Unfortunately most bmw customers have no understanding of cars or race cars. Since this is BMW's customer base BMW should do its best to explain the difference in power measured. But it is not therefore it's got some work to do.

[maaicher]

Originally Posted by zamm3k

woah woah woah. I have a 135i and my best friend has an e92 M3 so I drive both of them a lot. I don't mean to redirect this thread, but believe me the power the N54 engine makes is not pathetic by any means. The way BMW used the biturbo 6 cylinder engine is impressive. I keep up with my buddy's M3 until we start reaching top speed, which is mostly based on displacement and cylinder advantage. And I'm completely stock. Now mind you, an M3 is just a hell of an experience EVERY time you drive it, I love it for that, but the torque in the N54 is just endless, not to mention it produces an underrated 300 hp (which is actually 332 bhp, tested and proven).

Continue

I was actually mocking the guy i quoted, i know its not pathetic but he was saying that the power of the m3 was pathetic. I also know the hp is underrated as well, i just didnt like that guy saying m3's are pathetic, when his car with two turbo's makes the saame torque as the N/A m3...nothing against the 135 or 335, love them both

[arr0gant]

What is wrong iwth you kooks? 340 to 350 RWHP are "great" numbers for a 415BHP car. Get a freakin clue!