Concerns about rear wheel drive and fishtailing in my ATS-V

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by Ian1973

Scary you own nearly a 500hp car and don't know that is normal.

+1, learn to drive. Most 16 year Olds experiment with oversteer in first car with 100hp or whatever usually when wet.

[Jaghave]

Watch your rear and slightly steer toward it to realign that what I do. Unless you want to drift then you rock it back and forth.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by wdb

In for crash pics.

Yes keep trying it until you figure out.

[kingikra]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

If the car is not going straight, some of the wheels are spinning at different speeds, this is most likely due to a loss of traction. As has been noted, perhaps something is actually wrong, but it's very hard to tell, because mashing on the accelerator will cause the car to go off in crazy directions, just look at all the street-racing videos where people plowed into stuff on the sides of the road when they tried to do the same.

Shouldn't the differential take care of all this uneven wheel spins? This is my main concern. That is a bad differential issue. Can easily be 25K-30K USD to fix here.

[kingikra]

Originally Posted by SSJTrunks523

How is the rear suspension? Are we sure it is wheelspin? If the rear axle is overpowering a part (disconnected or broken) it will get wonky. I'm thinking that under normal conditions, this might be fine. Under WOT, it might bend.

I'm just throwing and seeing what sticks.

I am very very behind in modern car tech, but my camaro required an upgraded torque arm and subframe connectors when I put in my new motor, trans and rear. Otherwise it would literally rip the car apart. (~380 tq and 4.56 gears. Shifting to 2nd gear at 1500rpm will squeal tires)

Rear end housing? I'm just thinking of situations where the rear end of the car becomes disconnected so to speak.

I have no idea. According to service guys all is OK.

[kingikra]

Originally Posted by MagnusT

Have you checked toe at the rear?

What's that? Can you please elaborate?

[kingikra]

Originally Posted by Jaghave

Watch your rear and slightly steer toward it to realign that what I do. Unless you want to drift then you rock it back and forth.

I know that this is what should I do but then it depends how slippery my rear end is.
If there's a defect, it'll not be up to me at all times.

[MagnusT]

Originally Posted by kingikra

What's that? Can you please elaborate?

Sorry if it's been talked about earlier in the thread. Toe is a wheel alignment thing. Have you gotten a wheel alignment? I the amount of toe is wrong on one rear wheel it very well could cause some strange behavior.

[SSJTrunks523]

Just in general I learned in my camaro. First car. Dismal motor (anyone who knew the gm 305). Wet, snow, no TC (1989. Not even limited slip). After a couple years I could hold and pull out of almost any slide. It's just time and throttle control.

What are your tires? I would ease the throttle and use this as a chance to learn. Driving is more than mashing the right pedal. There is a lot to learn about controlled slide.

You can learn to correct, save, and use oversteer to be a tool in your arsenal. It can help you get through a turn, pull out of understeer, and helps you understand driving dynamics more thoroughly.

"Why don't you take every turn like that?!?!?" - the first time I took my brother for a ride completely sideways through a turn.

As for Traction control on an ATS-V, no idea. I like my car to let me do what I want with it. Take a look under the car and make sure that everything is secure.

If you go half throttle, does the rear move similarly? You should get some suspension shimmy when you go hard on a car like that. You'll feel a bit of torque that is not applied evenly. For example, both my RWD cars like to light the right tire up. They are right heavy. Now both will spin, but the right always gives a harder kick and seems to be the first to let go. When I drive hard, but not spinning, I can still feel an unequal torque to the right side when shifting.

[kingikra]

Originally Posted by MagnusT

Sorry if it's been talked about earlier in the thread. Toe is a wheel alignment thing. Have you gotten a wheel alignment? I the amount of toe is wrong on one rear wheel it very well could cause some strange behavior.

They did at the garage and said that everything is OK.

[kingikra]

Originally Posted by SSJTrunks523

Just in general I learned in my camaro. First car. Dismal motor (anyone who knew the gm 305). Wet, snow, no TC (1989. Not even limited slip). After a couple years I could hold and pull out of almost any slide. It's just time and throttle control.

What are your tires? I would ease the throttle and use this as a chance to learn. Driving is more than mashing the right pedal. There is a lot to learn about controlled slide.

You can learn to correct, save, and use oversteer to be a tool in your arsenal. It can help you get through a turn, pull out of understeer, and helps you understand driving dynamics more thoroughly.

"Why don't you take every turn like that?!?!?" - the first time I took my brother for a ride completely sideways through a turn.

As for Traction control on an ATS-V, no idea. I like my car to let me do what I want with it. Take a look under the car and make sure that everything is secure.

If you go half throttle, does the rear move similarly? You should get some suspension shimmy when you go hard on a car like that. You'll feel a bit of torque that is not applied evenly. For example, both my RWD cars like to light the right tire up. They are right heavy. Now both will spin, but the right always gives a harder kick and seems to be the first to let go. When I drive hard, but not spinning, I can still feel an unequal torque to the right side when shifting.

Let's leave the first clip aside. I understand that I need to learn and practice rear wheel drive but I'm almost sure this slips more than it should.
Here is a clip from this morning on my way to work. In low speeds I was on a bad slippery road with half throttle and the car was actually slipping. Both my hands on the wheel trying stabilize the car. Only when I got to a better road I could press hard on the throttle. It was also in 80 KPH.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by kingikra

Let's leave the first clip aside. I understand that I need to learn and practice rear wheel drive but I'm almost sure this slips more than it should.
Here is a clip from this morning on my way to work. In low speeds I was on a bad slippery road with half throttle and the car was actually slipping. Both my hands on the wheel trying stabilize the car. Only when I got to a better road I could press hard on the throttle. It was also in 80 KPH.

You keep saying this, both hands on the wheel, that's irrelevant.
If you push to hard, your rear end will try to step out anyway.

That last clip looks normal to me, the first one seems a bit excessive given your TC was on.

[kingikra]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

That last clip looks normal to me, the first one seems a bit excessive given your TC was on.

What do you mean by normal? Do you sometimes feel like you are on ice in a completely clear day with 90 degrees F?

[wdb]

A buddy let me drive his Mustang back when I was young and impressionable. 1966, 289/271hp, 4spd. Looked ordinary when the hood wasn't open. Up until that time the horsepower I had at my beck and call at any given moment had been in the double digits. Oh and bias ply tires on the 'stang. Anyway, I was pulling away from a traffic light and had to turn a bit to go around someone turning left. When I pressed the gas the car snapped sideways like it was on ice. I was quite happy not to have paid any more for that lesson than a bit of embarassment.

[bb1857]

Here is the bottom line...there is NOTHING wrong with your car. You simply don't have the skill level to control a high horsepower rear wheel drive car just yet. You've said it yourself that you need to learn more and that you don't know what you're feeling.

What you're feeling is a shitload of power in car that you're not used to. It's not embarrassing that you don't have the skill level yet but don't go blaming the car and looking for things that are wrong.

Look in the mirror, take it easy driving and stop "mashing" the throttle and expecting the computer to save your ass.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by kingikra

What do you mean by normal? Do you sometimes feel like you are on ice in a completely clear day with 90 degrees F?

Not with all electronic aids "on" in my car, but I don't own Cadillac, can't say for sure.

With electronics"off" both clips show what I'd expect to see as a result of flooring the pedal of 500 HP rear wheel car. In the first clip it seems to me that TC catches it way past the point where BMW's "electronics" would interfere, maybe that's by design.

Recently I spend some time behind the wheel of V8, 420+ HP manual Mustang GT, and even though not as "refined" as BMW's electronics I wasn't able to make the rear end move a lot with everything "on". I also drive my RWD all year round (nasty winters, snow covered roads) and with electronics on, and good winter tires it's perfectly fine.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

Not with all electronic aids "on" in my car, but I don't own Cadillac, can't say for sure.

With electronics"off" both clips show what I'd expect to see as a result of flooring the pedal of 500 HP rear wheel car. In the first clip it seems to me that TC catches it way past the point where BMW's "electronics" would interfere, maybe that's by design.

Recently I spend some time behind the wheel of V8, 420+ HP manual Mustang GT, and even though not as "refined" as BMW's electronics I wasn't able to make the rear end move a lot with everything "on". I also drive my RWD all year round (nasty winters, snow covered roads) and with electronics on, and good winter tires it's perfectly fine.

My camaro with 420lb/ft was pretty hard to do that too, but running on 275 20s it probably would be, put some smaller tires on there (either width or diameter) and try it again and maybe. It was also manual, so it wouldn't drop down, unless I dropped it down. The sudden application of 5000rpm at a relatively slow speed would shoot that thing sideways I'd think. Still, we aren't there with him and if something is screwed up with the traction control/SC, it may be it.

The stability control in my camaro was quite good. I would drive on ice sometimes here in Alaska and it would yank the car back in a straight line pretty well, basically the issue you are having, but without something to yank it back.

[Mavus]

You are not providing enough info to get proper detailed feedback. You need to attend a high perf driving school and ask instructor to drive your car. Nobody here can help you remotely. Figure out whether it's a driver or car issue.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

You are not providing enough info to get proper detailed feedback. You need to attend a high perf driving school and ask instructor to drive your car. Nobody here can help you remotely. Figure out whether it's a driver or car issue.

Or take Cadillac up on their FREE PERFORMANCE DRIVING SCHOOL offer

[kingikra]

Let me try and answer all of you.
I think most of us agree that this is something in between my driving skills and the car itself.

Bbb34, if you are saying that with electronics on you never feel like you are on ice and I keep on claiming that I never turn off the electronics so something might be bad. I'm not sure as you can't be sure without driving my car first.

James, let's please leave aside hard kick downs and relate only to the last clip. Belive me, squeezing the throttle at this point would definitely result in the first clip! I'm saying that again, I felt like I'm in ice.

Smooth, I'll try that as well. For now, importer guys had supplied a professional driving instructor to tell me that the car is perfectly fine. This is not what am I looking for. I need someone without interests to tell me that.

All the other responders, please read the thread.

[bb1857]

Heres a thought.....go ask the guys that actually drive these cars. I am sure there is a Cadillac forum and I guarantee you that none of them have these problems. The problem is squarely you and your lack of command for the car.

Nobody here is going to drive your car so when people give you advice you can't tell them they're wrong because they haven't driven your car. Again this is simple....you don't know how to drive this car

Wait let me get this straight....someone gave you a professional driving instructor and that professional told you the car was fine and you don't want to listen to him??? Is that what I am hearing because if so you really need to give up and go buy a Prius or something because you have no business driving this car. You are going to kill someone and thats not a joke.

Fuck I can't believe this thread is this long

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by bb1857

......You are going to kill someone and thats not a joke.

Fuck I can't believe this thread is this long

bb1857 is harsh, but he might be correct.

This was exactly my initial reaction when the thread stated, I can't lie
I just keep going back to all "electronic nannies" being left "on". It's really hard to move the car that much (especially first clip) with everything "on", even on wet or snow covered roads.